One Thing That Bugs Me about JP Losman

[Sisyphean Bills]

Again, you may be right. My point is that what you said is normally very true. And you gave a perfect example in Millen at Detroit. But what I am saying is that the JP situation in Buffalo was abnormal. One would have expected what you expected, that the GM and coach were going to live or die with their guy and #1 pick. I can't recall how many posters had switched theiur mantra from TD is going to succeed or fail based on the JP Losman pick from the previous Willis McGahee pick. But then the reverse happened. MM and TD didn't show allegiance to their pick, they showed less allegiance to their pick than the man off the street who didnt pick him. That's why I don't believe your theory of JP's expectations for TD versus ML. Because all you're implying (I imagine) is that his hook will be less quick and he will give JP more time. But he already disproved that, in a glaring way.

 

My theory, and it is just a theory too, like yours is, is that ML and DJ will give JP a longer chance than the guys that drafted him, because they will see the talent, and they won't be scrounging to save their professional lives.

598338[/snapback]

 

Yeah, the Losman situation was a total clusterfukk last year. They dumped Bledsoe, turned the team over to Losman, put a crappy OL together, asked Losman to be a downfield pocket passer, benched "the future franchise QB" very quickly and won a game, went with Holcomb for a while because "he just wins" until they found out "he just loses too", split the team, caused chaos and insurrection, flip-flopped back and forth ... what a complete disaster, absolute buffoonery. The situation just screams that they didn't know what the hell they were doing and panicked repeatedly.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Hot pocket mentality = years of frustration and rebuilding.

598394[/snapback]

 

It's worked well for Dan Snyder.

[MikeSpeed]

IMO if the new regieme has any doubts about JP they should unload him now. If they have doubts, then the first sign of trouble they are not going to be confident enough in him to work it out. They will yank him, and we'll have 2005 all over again.

Personally I think it would be a mistake, but if they don't trust him, they should dump him.

Of coarse then I see him going to the Jets or Dolphins and kicking our @#$.

[John from Riverside]

What I am trying to figure out is why does everyone think he sucked SO bad?

 

 

- He was a first year QB coming off an injury

 

- How many consistant 3 potato counts did he have before seeing a different colored jersey bearing down on him? When he DID have time I saw him make some good plays.

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- What was our running game doing at the end of the year?

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- Where was his safety blanket Tight End?

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- Our defense did WHAT as far as stops and turnover

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- JPL scored THREE TOUCHDOWNS in a quarter this past year....but he has no potential?

 

- He was a first year QB

[Sisyphean Bills]

I see what you're getting at - that subbing Holcomb for JP in Week 5 was a sign of lacking allegiance.  I view it as a desparate attempt to save the season.  Jp's start was going much worse than they expected.  They figured that even if he didn't play well, they could still win games.  Even still, they went back to JP after four weeks.  And afterwards, Mularkey was starting Holcomb after it was a foregone conclusion that TD was done.  I think handing JP the starting job at the beginning of the season was a tremendous show of support for him.  He was laying his job on the line with JP, and by Week 12, it was clear that he had lost.

 

And my theory on your theory is that there just isn't that much talent there.  I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but what some on this board see as talent, I see as that old saying about the broken clock.

598421[/snapback]

 

He wasn't playing well, but it wasn't all his fault either. Poor coaching and play calling? The promised "physically and mentally tough" smashmouth offense that Mike "Loads Of" Mularkey was where? Were they confused and thought they had Tommy Maddox again and could just go out there and sling it all over the lot?

[Tortured Soul]

What I am trying to figure out is why does everyone think he sucked SO bad?

- He was a first year QB coming off an injury

 

- How many consistant 3 potato counts did he have before seeing a different colored jersey bearing down on him?  When he DID have time I saw him make some good plays.

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- What was our running game doing at the end of the year?

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- Where was his safety blanket Tight End?

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- Our defense did WHAT as far as stops and turnover

 

- He was a first year QB

 

- JPL scored THREE TOUCHDOWNS in a quarter this past year....but he has no potential?

 

- He was a first year QB

598451[/snapback]

Grading him on this scale, I don't think he played well, and he certainly didn't make those around him better.

[Bill from NYC]

He wasn't playing well, but it wasn't all his fault either.  Poor coaching and play calling?  The promised "physically and mentally tough" smashmouth offense that Mike "Loads Of" Mularkey was where?  Were they confused and thought they had Tommy Maddox again and could just go out there and sling it all over the lot?

598452[/snapback]

 

To be fair to MM, I am thinking more and more that he had little to no say in terms of coaching the Bills.

The man DID say that he wanted to play "smashmouth," and the first player drafted in 05 was Roscoe "Litle Boy Blue" Parrish.

TD, ever the genius, wanted to go against the grain and "out-smart" everybody. He brought us McNally and a pile of crap, and that was supposed to work. He drafted a fat slob with a history of injuries at the #4 slot to play right tackle. He overpaid for JP, and tossed him to the wolves.

 

I am NOT trying to start a MM fan club here, but I do think that it was primarily TD who took us down the tubes.

[Kelly the Dog]

To be fair to MM, I am thinking more and more that he had little to no say in terms of coaching the Bills.

The man DID say that he wanted to play "smashmouth," and the first player drafted in 05 was Roscoe "Litle Boy Blue" Parrish. 

TD, ever the genius, wanted to go against the grain and "out-smart" everybody. He brought us McNally and a pile of crap, and that was supposed to work. He drafted a fat slob with a history of injuries at the #4 slot to play right tackle. He overpaid for JP, and tossed him to the wolves.

 

I am NOT trying to start a MM fan club here, but I do think that it was primarily TD who took us down the tubes.

598498[/snapback]

One would have to think that the Parrish pick was to appease Mularkey and not the other way around. TD did the same thing earlier. He brought in a smashmouth kind of players (Gash for Centers, Campbell for JR, dropping Peerless, Travis and MacGahee, etc) only to see his HC and OC screw him and throw all the time.

[The Senator]

That very well may be what is going on here. Jauron knows Matthews very well. They could be talking to him about either coming back to be Losman's tutor again, OR, retiring and becoming the QB coach. It's a natural progression for a guy like Matthews. And they could easily be waiting (both the Bills and Matthews) to see just who it is the Bills can get to be the #3. If they cannot find a good young prospect, they stick with Matthews as the #3 and keep a guy on the practice squad like Ochs or some draft choice.

 

If they sign a young free agent for pennies that they want to develop, Matthews quickly retires and they bump him up to coach. Going into the draft, they may easily have a guy they like they think they can get in the late rounds. if he is still there in #6 they take him and Matthews becomes the coach. If he is gone, Matthews stays. It's just an easily imagined scenario.

598408[/snapback]

Well if they're talkin' to Matthews about being QBs coach, I hope they're also talkin' to some other former QBs..maybe a HOF QB...maybe Jim Kelly?

[Catholic Guilt]

was all that we heard about all this time he spent with Wyche and how good he was doing and how little of it we saw on the field.

 

As many of you have stated previously, it seemed to possibly be Donahoe, Mularkey and Wyche making exaggerated comments to justify getting rid of bledsoe and making JP the starter.

 

Hopefully Jauron, Levy & Ralph recognized that and base their decisions on it.

 

Some of the other things we have heard about JP, like his 1st preseason where they said he was mixing up calls from the Bills with those from college and/or high school still bothers me about his ability to handle the job.

 

He also has shown getting too excited and the coaches said they needed to calm him down.  Well, geez, the guy played high school and college ball.  Didn't he get somewhat used to playing the game from that experience.

 

Of course, there are only a few cool customers like a Montana and Brady.  Then you have guys like Bledsoe with many years of Pro Ball and he still get sjittery back there an d looks like a rookie.

 

Hopefully it'll all click for JP and this QB issue can be put behind.

598127[/snapback]

 

Dude - just relax and give JP the benefit of the doubt. Let the kid play and get the experience he needs to be a better QB.

[The Dean]

Well if they're talkin' to Matthews about being QBs coach, I hope they're also talkin' to some other former QBs..maybe a HOF QB...maybe Jim Kelly?

598522[/snapback]

 

 

You won't get any traction with weak crap like that from the better football minds on The Wall (KtD being one of them). You might try trolling some of the "tard" threads if you're trying to get a groundswell. Always better to start with the unthinking and/or poorly schooled types.

[The Senator]

You won't get any traction with weak crap like that from the better football minds on The Wall (KtD being one of them).  You might try trolling some of the "tard" threads if you're trying to get a groundswell.  Always better to start with the unthinking and/or poorly schooled types.

598544[/snapback]

Well ya may be right there, Deano, but I gotta think there's one person - at least one - who thinks Kelly knows a bit more about the QB position than Shane Matthews, no?

 

So then, if KtD - one of the better football minds on The Wall, as you stated - thinks Shane Matthews being bumped up to OBs Coach is an "easily imagined scenario", then why would it be more difficult to imagine Kelly in the same role?

 

Just wonderin'...I'm sure you'll explain...and probably keep explaining until Kelly is named the Bills' new QBs coach.

 

BTW - as for "poorly schooled types", I pointed out in a different thread that G.W. Bush went to both Yale and Harvard - so being 'well schooled' does not necessarily guarantee intellect!

[The Dean]

Well ya may be right there, Deano, but I gotta think there's one person - at least one - who thinks Kelly knows a bit more about the QB position than Shane Matthews, no?

 

So then, if KtD - one of the better football minds on The Wall, as you stated -  thinks Shane Matthews being bumped up to OBs Coach is an "easily imagined scenario", then why would it be more difficult to imagine Kelly in the same role?

 

Just wonderin'...I'm sure you'll explain...and probably keep explaining until Kelly is named the Bills' new QBs coach.

 

BTW -  as for "poorly schooled types", I pointed out in a different thread that G.W. Bush went to both Yale and Harvard - so being 'well schooled' does not necessarily guarantee intellect!

598562[/snapback]

 

 

Well, you got me with the poorly schooled...I'll give ya that.

 

Kelly knows/knew how to play QB. I have no reason he knows how to coach the position. Remember, Frank Reich was basically JK's NFL QB coach.

 

Matthews is similar to Frank and AVP in that all of these guys spent a LOT of time with the old clipboard on the sidelines. And all of these guys have been cited by fellow players and coaches as being valuable in the development of the team's other QBs. Will Shane be a good QB coach? Dunno...and I'd rather not have the Bills be the place where he experiments...same with AVP.

 

BUT, at least AVP has shown the willingness to do what it takes to learn the trade. He's starting at UB. There's talk of Matthews getting a look at the QB coach position at other teams as well. These guys seem genuinely interested in becoming NFL coaches and are taking the steps necessary to reach that goal.

 

My feeling is JK doesn't want to be a QB coach in the NFL. He seems to be doing very little to get the necesary experience. One would think he wold have hooked up with a college team or started coaching high school ball. Honestly, I think Jim thinks it's cool to be back involved with the Bills now that Papa Marv is back. He might accept the Bills' QB coach position if offered it. BUT, if he really wanted to be a QB coach, he'd also talk to Green Bay, St. Louis, etc...WHOEVER, in order to get the experience.

 

This is simply a media exposure thing and makes about as much sense as Miami's short-lived appointment of Marino to GM. Nobody expected Danny boy to put in all the hours needed to do that job correctly. I don't think many of us truly believe Jimbo will do all the work necessary to become a fine NFL coach, either.

[Sisyphean Bills]

To be fair to MM, I am thinking more and more that he had little to no say in terms of coaching the Bills.

The man DID say that he wanted to play "smashmouth," and the first player drafted in 05 was Roscoe "Litle Boy Blue" Parrish. 

TD, ever the genius, wanted to go against the grain and "out-smart" everybody. He brought us McNally and a pile of crap, and that was supposed to work. He drafted a fat slob with a history of injuries at the #4 slot to play right tackle. He overpaid for JP, and tossed him to the wolves.

 

I am NOT trying to start a MM fan club here, but I do think that it was primarily TD who took us down the tubes.

598498[/snapback]

 

Man, I dunno what to think about the Smurf pick. Was this Loads-O' trying to snag a bargain bin Randle El type of player to run his gadgets and gimmicks? Or was this Teflon's way of putting together smashmouth? As usual, the double-speak coming out of 1BD was thick and hard to penetrate.

 

These bozos did seem to think that putting together a football team was like playing with a set of tinker toys. Don't have a guy for that position? It's OK, we'll just toss a random player in there and "teach" him to have more talent than he has.

 

What a disaster. An absolute train wreck. I don't care if Marv Levy was only 21 years old; he has a GINORMOUS job to do to clean up this EPA-class dump site.

[John from Riverside]

Grading him on this scale, I don't think he played well, and he certainly didn't make those around him better.

598482[/snapback]

 

Make the people around him better? What are we talking about the NBA MVP or something....

 

You could put "insert your favorite QB here" on this team in this situation with this line with no good TE outlet with receivers dropping balls left and right and you would get....

 

THE SAME RESULT

[The Senator]

Well, you got me with the poorly schooled...I'll give ya that.

 

Kelly knows/knew how to play QB.  I have no reason he knows how to coach the position.  Remember, Frank Reich was basically JK's NFL QB coach. 

 

Matthews is similar to Frank and AVP in that all of these guys spent a LOT of time with the old clipboard on the sidelines.  And all of these guys have been cited by fellow players and coaches as being valuable in the development of the team's other QBs.  Will Shane be a good QB coach?  Dunno...and I'd rather not have the Bills be the place where he experiments...same with AVP. 

 

BUT, at least AVP has shown the willingness to do what it takes to learn the trade.  He's starting at UB.  There's talk of Matthews getting a look at the QB coach position at other teams as well.  These guys seem genuinely interested in becoming NFL coaches and are taking the steps necessary to reach that goal.

 

My feeling is JK doesn't want to be a QB coach in the NFL.  He seems to be doing very little to get the necesary experience. One would think he wold have hooked up with a college team or started coaching high school ball.  Honestly, I think Jim thinks it's cool to be back involved with the Bills now that Papa Marv is back.  He might accept the Bills' QB coach position if offered it.  BUT, if he really wanted to be a QB coach, he'd also talk to Green Bay, St. Louis, etc...WHOEVER, in order to get the experience.

 

This is simply a media exposure thing and makes about as much sense as Miami's short-lived appointment of Marino to GM.  Nobody expected Danny boy to put in all the hours needed to do that job correctly.  I don't think many of us truly believe Jimbo will do all the work necessary to become a fine NFL coach, either.

598581[/snapback]

OK Dean...good points well taken, but come on now - comparing Marino's aptitude for the GM job to Kelly's ability to coach one or two guys at a job he knows as well as anyone is - ya gotta admit - a bit of a reach, no?

 

I'm not quite sure I agree with the part about Reich being Kelly's de facto QB coach either, thought I can't remember if we even had a QB coach at the time or if Marchibroda filled that function. Also, it'd be enlighteding to me if you could name the QBs that Reich and/or AVP helped develop, and with which teams those young QBs soared to greatness!

 

Anyway, I agree - Jim probably does think it would be cool to be involved with the Bills, now that The Marvelous One is back, and this is probably the only scenario where he might be interested in a coaching position, and I think he just might be effective here. I don't think he'd even consider it if it wasn't The Bills and Marv we're talkin' about, and I wouldn't want to see him somewhere else, 'cause I wanna see him here. I think he and JP would work well together - and Kelly could smack JP around if he screws up!

 

All that aside, why haven't we read about the Bills interviewing anyone for the QB coach position?

[The Dean]

All that aside, why haven't we read about the Bills interviewing anyone for the QB coach position?

598729[/snapback]

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0...ack=1&cset=true

 

Well the Chi Trib reported the Williams were talking to Former Bears offensive coordinator John Shoop. Of course, the article states they were looking at him for the COORDINATOR'S position. As this article was printed days after the Bills hired Fairchild, there's some talk that it might be for the QB coach slot. There's also a good chance the author is just full of s#it.

[The Senator]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0...ack=1&cset=true

 

Well the Chi Trib reported the Williams were talking to Former Bears offensive coordinator John Shoop.  Of course, the article states they were looking at him for the COORDINATOR'S position.  As this article was printed days after the Bills hired Fairchild, there's some talk that it might be for the QB coach slot.  There's also a good chance the author is just full of s#it.

598735[/snapback]

Yeah, I saw that too, but I thought you already corrected the Tribune and forced them to print a retraction, no? The Bills do hold informational briefings for the press at OBD, so I gotta think at leat one reporter in Buffalo would know if we had interviewed anyone, or had anyone scheduled for an interview - I gotta agree that the author was "full of sh#t."

 

Besides, you should have the inside 'scoop on Shoop' - hey, I like that - isn't there anything in the Bay area press? From what I've read, he's pretty happy in Oakland and his wife is a minister there, or something like that.

 

Nothing at all from OBD on the QB coach - I'm guessing that Kelly's not back in town yet.

[The Dean]

Yeah, I saw that too, but I thought you already corrected the Tribune and forced them to print a retraction, no?  The Bills do hold informational briefings for the press at OBD, so I gotta think at leat one reporter in Buffalo would know if we had interviewed anyone, or had anyone scheduled for an interview - I gotta agree that the author was "full of sh#t."

 

Besides, you should have the inside 'scoop on Shoop' - hey, I like that - isn't there anything in the Bay area press?  From what I've read, he's pretty happy in Oakland and his wife is a minister there, or something like that.

 

Nothing at all from OBD on the QB coach - I'm guessing that Kelly's not back in town yet.

598753[/snapback]

 

 

Well, Shoop's done a fine job with Kerry Collins and Tui...YIKES! i don't want this guy anywhere near our QBs.

[The Senator]

Well, Shoop's done a fine job with Kerry Collins and Tui...YIKES!  i don't want this guy anywhere near our QBs.

598754[/snapback]

Yeah - the poop around here is that he and Jauron are buddies and Dick called him up - they had a conversation - but no details about what was discussed. Jauron basically stated what I reiterated - Shoop's pretty well settled in Oakland.

 

(Though I guess Al Davis could change that.)

 

Raiders QB coach meets with Davis