The Dean Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Gotta disagree with you, GG. Mularkey quit, in an industry where mental toughness and grit are the most prized characteristics. Do you think an owner is going to give the keys to the organization to MM any time soon? Hell freaking no. He's not moving up any ladder. The truth is that he WANTS to be OC or QB coach, where he can be under the radar and avoid the most heated scrutiny that apparently caused him so much disdain in Buffalo. What happened here is damning evidence that MM is not mentally tough -- something we certainly witnessed with the team itself in 2005. Just because the guy will still be able to make a very good living doesn't mean he did anything noble or "smart." 576867[/snapback] Whether he did something "noble" or "smart" is up to your interpretation and really doesn't matter. He'll be fine, get other jobs in the NFL...and his walking away from the Bills HC job won't be held against him AT ALL bny most organizations, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Happens every day. Especially when more money and a better organization are involved. 576858[/snapback] Of course, nobody is disputing that people quit jobs. The more money and better jobs thing doesn't fly in this case. He didn't jump ship for more money and a better organization. He just quit for the unknown. People are also comparing this to a hostile take over. Ralph Wilson was already involved -- people say he was calling everyone every day when he "wasn't involved". Modrak and Brandon were already with the Bills too. The new management consisted of ... Marv Levy. I guess Marv has a lot of vinegar left in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Yep, GW sure is suffering with that demotion he took to work in Washington. 576864[/snapback] GW was and is an excellent DC. The difference: he was fired; he didn't walk away. He regretted not seeing the job fully done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 GW was and is an excellent DC. The difference: he was fired; he didn't walk away. He regretted not seeing the job fully done. I regretted SEEING him not get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Gotta disagree with you, GG. Mularkey quit, in an industry where mental toughness and grit are the most prized characteristics. Do you think an owner is going to give the keys to the organization to MM any time soon? Hell freaking no. He's not moving up any ladder. The truth is that he WANTS to be OC or QB coach, where he can be under the radar and avoid the most heated scrutiny that apparently caused him so much disdain in Buffalo. What happened here is damning evidence that MM is not mentally tough -- something we certainly witnessed with the team itself in 2005. Just because the guy will still be able to make a very good living doesn't mean he did anything noble or "smart." 576867[/snapback] Funny me, I thought that MM works in an industry where wins are the most prized characteristics. Everyone is using their own value judgements to guess what MM did. But unless you are his wife or best friend, you have absolutey no idea what drove his decision. Neither do I, but I'm not willing to impart judgement that he's a quitter because he left a toxic situation for him. Here's a question for the gallery, did Ralph Wilson do the right thing because he didn't hire John "the quitter" Fox in '01? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Whether he did something "noble" or "smart" is up to your interpretation and really doesn't matter. He'll be fine, get other jobs in the NFL...and his walking away from the Bills HC job won't be held against him AT ALL bny most organizations, IMO. 576883[/snapback] Name the last NFL head coach to quit his job for reasons other than retirement or health. <crickets> Now name the last person to be offered an NFL HC job who refused it. <more crickets> I'm very happy MM will be able to provide for his family and continue to work in the NFL. Some men are born to lead and handle the pressure; others are born to follow and toil in obscurity. In my book, MM will always be the guy who didn't want to face up to the challenge and took the "easy" way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Funny me, I thought that MM works in an industry where wins are the most prized characteristics. Everyone is using their own value judgements to guess what MM did. But unless you are his wife or best friend, you have absolutey no idea what drove his decision. Neither do I, but I'm not willing to impart judgement that he's a quitter because he left a toxic situation for him. Here's a question for the gallery, did Ralph Wilson do the right thing because he didn't hire John "the quitter" Fox in '01? 576895[/snapback] Wins (and losses) are results, not characteristics. Sorry you don't understand my point. I'm willing to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Gotta disagree with you, GG. Mularkey quit, in an industry where mental toughness and grit are the most prized characteristics. Do you think an owner is going to give the keys to the organization to MM any time soon? Hell freaking no. He's not moving up any ladder. The truth is that he WANTS to be OC or QB coach, where he can be under the radar and avoid the most heated scrutiny that apparently caused him so much disdain in Buffalo. What happened here is damning evidence that MM is not mentally tough -- something we certainly witnessed with the team itself in 2005. Just because the guy will still be able to make a very good living doesn't mean he did anything noble or "smart." 576867[/snapback] I also think that MM intentionally took a demotion here, and not as a noble gesture. If it was a noble gesture, why did he agree to stay on when he knew his pal Teflon Tom was going/gone and why did he agree to clean house on his coaching staff and fire some of his good friends? It simply doesn't add up. Mularkey did not seem exceptionally well suited to be a head coach in the NFL this past season. And, through his actions, he has agreed with that assessment. Of course, I wish him and his family the best and hope he finds a coordinator or position coach job where he can be more comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Name the last NFL head coach to quit his job for reasons other than retirement or health. <crickets> Now name the last person to be offered an NFL HC job who refused it. <more crickets> I'm very happy MM will be able to provide for his family and continue to work in the NFL. Some men are born to lead and handle the pressure; others are born to follow and toil in obscurity. In my book, MM will always be the guy who didn't want to face up to the challenge and took the "easy" way out. 576897[/snapback] While your response has little to do with my post, I believe several coaches have declined HC jobs. I don't have the detail...but, someone here will. BTW, I'm also going to guess that other HCs have resigned in the past. Where's Lori when you need her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 While your response has little to do with my post, I believe several coaches have declined HC jobs. I don't have the detail...but, someone here will. BTW, I'm also going to guess that other HCs have resigned in the past. Where's Lori when you need her? 576909[/snapback] You said "he'll be fine, get other jobs in the NFL." My point is that his ability to continue to earn a living doesn't mean he did something (quitting) anyone should be proud of or make excuses for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Of course, nobody is disputing that people quit jobs. The more money and better jobs thing doesn't fly in this case. He didn't jump ship for more money and a better organization. He just quit for the unknown. 576884[/snapback] With the going rate on coordinators jobs with big market teams now topping $1 million, he's in line for a raise if he lands one of those jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 While your response has little to do with my post, I believe several coaches have declined HC jobs. I don't have the detail...but, someone here will.576909[/snapback] Marvin Lewis and the Bills comes to mind. I'd say he made the right choice from his vantage point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I wonder how MM will handle that 'Fins road game at RWS each year? You think the fans were on him before? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 You said "he'll be fine, get other jobs in the NFL." My point is that his ability to continue to earn a living doesn't mean he did something (quitting) anyone should be proud of or make excuses for. 576919[/snapback] That's a-whole-nother bag of worm. Having quit very lucrative jobs with no replacement in sight, i won't judge a guy for deciding what he can and can't/will and won't tolerate. (Of course, my jobs were not as lucrative as MM's...but i left with NO $ in the bank...actually much debt...so there's that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 That's a-whole-nother bag of worm. Having quit very lucrative jobs with no replacement in sight, i won't judge a guy for deciding what he can and can't/will and won't tolerate. (Of course, my jobs were not as lucrative as MM's...but i left with NO $ in the bank...actually much debt...so there's that.) 576929[/snapback] C'mon, let's cut the crap here. The NFL is a "tough guy" business. Head coaches get to their positions because they relish the challenge of being "the man." They don't shy away from difficult situations and make excuses; they work to overcome them. The reason I can't give Mularkey the benefit of the doubt here is because he handled it so poorly. If he was going to quit, why not do it right when Donahoe was fired? Why go through the ordeal of firing his "good buddy" Tom Clements and the other assistants first? The way he acted was pathetic. I don't care what his reasons were. He was wishy washy with how he handled the Bills (which began in 2004, by the way, with the Henry/McGahee saga, in case everyone forgot), and in the end, he was wishy washy with his bosses (and employees) as well. I'm through commenting on this situation, but suffice it to say that I am very confident Mularkey won't be considered for any HC positions in the NFL very soon, if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Funny me, I thought that MM works in an industry where wins are the most prized characteristics. Everyone is using their own value judgements to guess what MM did. But unless you are his wife or best friend, you have absolutey no idea what drove his decision. Neither do I, but I'm not willing to impart judgement that he's a quitter because he left a toxic situation for him. Here's a question for the gallery, did Ralph Wilson do the right thing because he didn't hire John "the quitter" Fox in '01? 576895[/snapback] Sure, wins are highly prized. But, this suggests that MM either did not know this or did not have the confidence that the team was capable of wins. The former case seems a little too Pollyanna -- in the real world, adults should be able to communicate and work with one another to achieve a common goal even if they are not best buds and do not always agree about everything. In the latter case, it is often said that in today's NFL, with free agency and the physical training of the athletes, that the difference between two teams physically is not really that much. The big difference maker in the modern NFL is coaching. So, why would MM not believe he could achieve wins? Did he lack self-confidence? Was he in over his head? Did he feel that the rest of the organization had a different agenda -- what is it? -- they just wanted to lose and play bad football? We don't know why he left, so why do we assume there was a "toxic situation"? Maybe he just realized he did not want to be a head coach and couldn't take it any longer. John Fox quit from the Raiders staff (Al Davis has had a few issues with coaches in the past -- Jon Gruden and Mike Shanahan left under bitter circumstances, but both had other jobs lined up) about 10 years ago. It also took him 5 years to win back his reputation. Or maybe Marv Levy is just another Al Davis, working for him for a week causes people to run for their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 BUt, we're not talking about middle managers at some dot com. How many other head coaches in the NFL have walked away from their jobs? Belichick? Not really, he already had the Patriots job lined up. NFL teams have plenty of front office shake-ups and coaching shake-ups and it is simply not true that one always goes hand in hand with the other. If Mularkey thinks he has a better upwards career path in the coaching profession as the QB coach in Atlanta than actually being an NFL head coach (which is the top job for a coach, btw -- his aspirations to be an owner notwithstanding ) are, well, a little bit tortured in their logic. 576860[/snapback] no, gg is not talking about "middle managers at some dot com." he's talking about what happens in corporate america and in particular the lower half of manhattan every day, where people are making more than mularkey (and trust me, gg actually knows what he's talking about in this regard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 no, gg is not talking about "middle managers at some dot com." he's talking about what happens in corporate america and in particular the lower half of manhattan every day, where people are making more than mularkey (and trust me, gg actually knows what he's talking about in this regard). 577155[/snapback] Again, nobody is disputing that people change jobs. But, that's not really the point of this debate (Mularkey quitting on the Bills). I'm sorry I wasn't as clear and precise as perhaps I needed to be in an earlier posting. The difference here is that Mularkey was a very public figure in a very public job and at a very high level of authority. Applying general rules such as "people change jobs every day" is not a good argument. (It's known as the fallacy of the general rule.) My earlier point was that it is not everyday that one sees well-known headknockers of high profile corporations just up and quit and then give an excuse such as "I didn't like the direction." Imagine if Bill Gates (or Steven Ballmer) just quit today at Microsoft because, "It was going in the wrong direction." People might be a bit surprised by such a move; and, since Gates (or Ballmer) are part of the upper-most levels of Microsoft's management team, they set the direction, so, the explanation would sound hollow and strange. As is often the case with euphemisms, this "don't like the direction" statement really reveals nothing to us; we are simply left with the impression -- right or wrong -- that there most have been a power struggle. In the case of Mike Mularkey, this seems all the more odd if one believes that Wilson and Levy were truly blind sided by all this, as they said they were. Who was Mularkey having this power struggle with? It's possible that Mularkey can explain his actions behind closed doors and that he'll once again rise to the top of his profession, coaching pro football. But, and to agree with eball, I'm not expecting that to happen any time real soon. Good luck to him all the same. Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Mularkey accepts Fins offer... MM going back home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Mularkey accepts Fins offer... MM going back home 577590[/snapback] Boy, that Fins home game next year is going to be a humdinger. Start saving your brickbats and throwable items up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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