dave mcbride Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 in my opinion the Pack should have done whatever they could to keep Bates.Jerry Gray is a screamer. since he came here on the back of Greg Williams and then worked side by side Dick Lebeau, few are willing to give him credit for the top 3 finishes the Bills defense had under his leadership.....but give him full credit for their falling apart this year. 571207[/snapback] except for the fact that neither lebeau nor williams were around last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 We must unite in recommending Grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorolf Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 We must unite in recommending Grey. 571218[/snapback] Why do I feel like you're trying to get rid of the guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Why do I feel like you're trying to get rid of the guy? 571223[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Tundran Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Not to mention that we will get a few free fans from Green Bay along the way. I mean it - looks like several posters from that board liked the guy and may follow the Bills as a secondary favorite. 571192[/snapback] A lot of us do already--you have Lee Evans and we just loved that guy as a Wisconsin Badger. You also have (had?) Tim Krumrie as a coach, and Troy Vincent who is another all-time favorite Badger. You seem to be collecting them. Terrell Buckley went on to a fine NFL career, but he was always haunted here because he wasn't Troy Vincent. I was born in Upstate New York, my father is from the area, so I always had kind of an affinity for them anyway. I participate occassionally on another Bills board, BillsZone. I can't help but ask, were people here as willing to see Drew Bledsoe publically drawn and quartertered as they were there? If so, how do they feel about it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 A lot of us do already--you have Lee Evans and we just loved that guy as a Wisconsin Badger. You also have (had?) Tim Krumrie as a coach, and Troy Vincent who is another all-time favorite Badger. You seem to be collecting them. Terrell Buckley went on to a fine NFL career, but he was always haunted here because he wasn't Troy Vincent. I was born in Upstate New York, my father is from the area, so I always had kind of an affinity for them anyway. I participate occassionally on another Bills board, BillsZone. I can't help but ask, were people here as willing to see Drew Bledsoe publically drawn and quartertered as they were there? If so, how do they feel about it now? 571446[/snapback] Aah, I can say my second favorite team is a toss-up between the Steelers and Packers. As you can tell my choices are teams from mostly blue-collared type towns. Living in Bears country and watching a game with friends makes me a Packers fan just to irritate the heck out of them. Hey, I was even rooting for the Panthers this past weekend and was a very unpopular viewer ! As for DB, I think after the weekly debates earlier on in the season most of us either got tired of that topic or gave up. I was one who still believes it was the right move to get rid of him. he could have done nothing much more significant this season. Atleast by being abysmal, it gave us a chance to shake up the organization rather than bordering on the playoffs and changing nothing. How things turn out after now only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorolf Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 So I watched the video of Sherman walking through the airport... enthralling stuff. Anyway, it reminded me of something that I really like about Sherman that I think you will, too. Sherman is a FAN'S coach. He would do things like take some side roads on his way to Lambeau and start to pull into someone's yard where people were pulling in to park and just joke around with them for a minute. After games (wins) he would stay in the parking lot to join with fans in the post-game tailgating. I sort of doubt you would get that sort of thing from Jauron... FWIW. I hope you land him, and that he does well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledhed Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 First I'll give you my positive thoughts on Sherman. A man of impeccable character. Has strong relationship with players, a lot of our guys were very upset(more hurt than angry) at his firing. He'll go to the matt for his team and they, him. He is a very likable guy. Has a tireless work ethic, and is very detail oriented. In his earlier years in GB he seemed to have a knack for haltime adjustments that just kind of faded away in the past 2-3 years. Negatives; he is notoriously predictable at play calling, especially 3rd down. I would get so pissed off at him, calling a draw or short screen on 3rd and long, and I don't mean 7-8 yds, we're talking 15-20 yds. Granted we had a lot of new guys on the field this year, but they sorely lacked mental discipline. Stupid (like high school stupid) mistakes lost 6-8 games for us this year. You can apply as much blame on the players as you wish on that one, but in my opinion, the HC is ultimately accountable for that. It is a common criticism in Wisconsin that he is a poor communicator with his staff. I wouldn't be able to confirm that, as I was not on his staff. Too much more than that would be more speculation on my part than observation. Just don't let the man near personnel decisions or your checkbook. I think his ultimate demise was the people he chose to surround himself with when he was GM. I always thought he was a great guy, but he may have been a bit too chummy with the players. He did an excellent job motivating the team at crucial times. But I'm still pissed that they seemed flat and emotionless in the game that Reggies number was retired. That is sacriligious around here. He does seem to be a consumate professional though and I'm sure he will reflect on his shortcomings, and alter his strategy accordingly. One thing that probably played a major role in his firing, is that the team did not grow under him. There was really no improvement during his tenure, nor was there any significant decline. The Packers made the playoffs and promptly lost. I was reading some of the posts on Jimmy leonhard, man I loved watching that kid play. Quite a story too. A walk on, and no matter where the play was, he was there. And BTW I think he won the dunk contest every year. His last two for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledhed Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 If you guys would like more input on Sherman to add to the confusion, go to http://www.timesfour.com/ (don't know how to make it a link here) then to forums then to Packers.to Packers Go all the way down and you'll see the previous pages of topics that run to 160 or so. Just before Sherman was fired, there were God-knows-how-many threads on him. I think Sherman may be a better coach the next time around, unless he is terribly stubborn or does not learn easily from experience. The team looked flat all year, even when it was relatively healthy in the early partseason. I was troubled even by the Buffalo preseason scrimmage in which they didn't do much at all. I think Sherman had an uncertainty about the future that somehow carried over to the team. I wouldn't rule Bates in or out as to coming with Sherman. I think he'd be a good HC. With Sherman, however, I haven't seen it mentioned here but he might want to bring along Tom Rossley as OC. That wouldn't do you any good. I also think Sherman needs a GM above him -- haven't heard, did Buffalo hire one? I thought it was odd when you fired the GM and OC leaving the HC rather lonely. Was he so dense he couldn't take a hint and had to be fired? 571105[/snapback] I have to disagree with you on a couple of points here Fox. I don't think they were necessarily flat to start with. The new gaurds had a tremendous negative effect in trying to get any kind of offense going and then the injuries started piling up, but he kept them motivated and playing hard. And also he was given an extension to remove his lame duck status, and I think most people, including MS thought that he would be around at least another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 TheBigCheese is not from PackerChatters (and I'll now stop referring to myself in the third person). But I came here yesterday to check out your thoughts on Shermy as HC and thought I'd contribute to the discussion. Maybe answer some of your GM vs HC questions if I can. Will try to be as objective as possible. In a nutshell, Sherman is a great man and a very good coach. The two major knocks on Sherman are his playoff failures and his tenure as GM. You already know that there are a lot of Packer fans who can't quite separate Sherman's record as GM with his record as coach. But even the biggest Sherm-haters would say he's an average coach - at WORST. The overwhelming majority of fans believe he is a good to excellent coach. The playoff loses - the one that really, really hurts for us GB fans is the Philly game. 'Nuf said about that. It also stings that the first-ever playoff loss at Lambeau came under Sherman's watch vs. ATL in 2002. A lot of things went wrong in that game; little to do with coaching. More the emotional reaction that came from losing the "Lambeau mystique." Last year's playoff loss vs. MINN - well, let's just say our team and it's terrible defense completely overachieved, winning four games on last-second FGs by Ryan Longwell. 2003 was our big chance, and we fans still aren't over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 That said, I was on the fence about whether Sherman should have been our coach for 2005. You'd think that a 4-12 season would have tipped me in the direction of wanting him fired. But I thought it was absolutely remarkable how Sherman kept that team together despite the very adverse conditions. There were no players complaining; there were no players pointing fingers. And as you've heard, many players were very upset at Sherman's dismissal. To have that kind of respect and support after an absolutely abysmal season makes you wonder. People have said Sherman is not a fiery coach? BS. That's a total pet peeve of mine - highly illogical argument. He's not a screamer - but think about it: are you motivated by your boss screaming in your face? Sherman has a quiet intensity; he keeps his emotions guarded. You want a rational decision-maker on the field of battle. And most importantly, you can't tell me that Sherman isn't a "fiery leader" when he went toe-to-toe with Warren Sapp after Sapp took out Chad Clifton. Offense - yep, at times I would say play-calling was a bit predictable. But I'd use that label moreso when we had Green running at full-strength and we seemed to always hand off on obvious running plays. But I would never characterize a Brett Favre-led offense as "bland." Also, there is a grey area where we sometimes did not know whether it was Rossley or Sherman doing the play-calling. Ultimately, the buck stops at Sherman either way. But you've got some fans who criticized Sherman for being too controlling, and others who thought he should take the reigns more on offense. So I wouldn't put too much stock in any of these arguments. Would love to see what Sherman could cook up with Losman to Evans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Bottom line: Sherman will absolutely be a satisfactory coach. I would love to see what he can do with another opportunity. I did not want him to leave GB, and think it's totally possible he can thrive in a new environment without Ted Thompson and the cloud of "4th and 26" hanging over him. He's a great man and would bring a lot to the Buffalo community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Thanks, BigCheese. It really impresses me that so many Green Bay fans are coming here and defending their ex-coach. I cannot imagine too many Bills fans doing that on a Miami board now that Mularkey is supposedly interviewing there. I also don't recall Bills fans chiming in on Redskins sites, saying nice things about Gregg Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Bottom line: Sherman will absolutely be a satisfactory coach. I would love to see what he can do with another opportunity. I did not want him to leave GB, and think it's totally possible he can thrive in a new environment without Ted Thompson and the cloud of "4th and 26" hanging over him. He's a great man and would bring a lot to the Buffalo community. 575597[/snapback] Thats true, I have absolutely no clue who Ted Thompson is. So I guess I won't be holding it against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Green Bay fans, thanks for all the insight. I appreciate it. It sounds like Sherman would be an excellent coach (I like conservative with tough D) and I'm excited he may be here. To answer a couple of questions...Jerry Grey would run a pretty good D for you guys if you had the right personnel. He runs schemes he learned from Gregg Williams and Dick LeBeau, so expect your D to look like Pitt or Wash. He has traditionally been very good at halftime adjustments, in 04 the Bills D didn't allow a 3rd quarter TD all season. We stumbled badly this year, however. BUT, and its a big but, if you don't have the right personel, you will get beat by the big play. Last year (04), our D constantly went for the big play, and usually made it. We came up with a bunch of turnovers and sacks. In 05, we REALLY missed Pat Williams (who should have been re-signed by our then-idiot GM Tom Donahoe) and the run D suffered. Consequently, we had to commit more people to run-stuff and were unable to be as agressive. Losing your best player to injury, Takeo Spikes, hurt as well. Bottom line is your D would probably imporve for a year or two, until the league got film on you and figured out how to beat the schemes. Of course, then you may be in rebuilding mode as Favre would retire and Grey may have moved on. It really would not be a bad move for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Our Green Bay visitors may get a smile from the fact that I bet two weeks allowance against the Cowboys in the famous Ice Bowl NFL championship, 40 years ago. If you all remember, if Buffalo had not self-destructed against the Chiefs that year (I lost two weeks allowance on that one!), they could have had the "honor" of losing the first NFL-AFL Championship to the Pack. I think they later renamed it the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 What can I say? We Cheeseheads are die-hards when it comes to our beloved team, just like y'all. Bills and Packer fans come from the same mold, so we're especially happy to help. I suspect there'll be a few of us who will adopt the Bills as a second team should the Sherman deal go through. Plus we play y'all this year, which could be mighty interesting... P.S. Ted Thompson = Packers GM, hired after Sherman was demoted from HC/GM. Used to be Seattle's GM (w/ Holmgren). Nobody really knows what this guy is all about - before Sherman held the duties briefly, our GM was Ron Wolf. Now we got some guy tinkering with our franchise and we don't know what's up. Thompson never gave any clear reason why he fired Sherman - just that the team was moving "in a different direction." Then he snubbed Bates for McCarthy. So Thompson is getting portrayed as the "bad cop" in Wisconsin right now. Maybe that gives you some add'l background as to why so many fans are taking an interest in what happens to Sherman. Like I said, it would get real interesting if you guys hire Sherman and then we play you this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 You Packer guys (and gals?) rock. thanks for coming here and sharing with us. I did some time in Brewtown (and loved it, BTW) and have seen my share of the Pack. I have to admit I really despised the Pack growing up. Just too much success, I guess. But i've grown to respect them a LOT over time, due almost entirely, to the Packer fans. To answer a question that was asked earlier...i don't think you dodged a bullet by passing on Wade. He knows D and may do a better job in his second shot. A lot of what was saie about Sherman applies to Bum's kid, too. Vey loyal (wouldn't dump a terrible assistant), great guy, players liked him, etc. He probably got a little bit of a raw deal here...but, like Sherman, it may have been time for him to go. As for McCarthy...i have no clue. I'm in SF now and no one here can quite figure out hos the guy got an HC job after what he did here...but, that's probably not fair. You guys have (had) a situation similar to ours: Hire a known guy who will probably improve the situation...but may not be the guy that has what it takes to go all the way...OR...take a chance on a new guy that might just be the next great one. The Pack rolled the dice and decided to swing for the fences. I think the Bills will opt for the known. I think that both of those decisions make sense for those teams at this particular point in time. The Pack has known some recent success...there is NO danger of losing fan support with another bad year or two...the eventual loss of Favre almost guarantees some "rebuilding" there. While the Bills really need to become "respectable" quickly, IMO. While, unlike some around here, I don't believe Buffalo is in real danger of losing the Bills. BUT, if we experience several really bad years and Ralph kicks it unexpectedly while the fans are in full "Bills Suck" mode, I'd be concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Thanks in return for all your thoughts on Jerry Grey, Mike McCarthy, and Packer fans in general. We loved hosting y'all for our family night scrimmage last year. I would love to see the Pack hire Grey at DC, but it's being reported here (Milwaukee) that Bob Sanders is the leading candidate (current D-line coach). I guess that would be a safe move, since Sanders is familiar with Bates' scheme. But if they wanted Bates and his scheme...why didn't they try harder to keep Bates in the first place? Bates was basically promised the HC job and then had the rug pulled out from under him. After his interview with our GM Ted Thompson, he even phoned Brett Favre with the thumbs-up. We are clinging to the hope of Favre returning, but as the saying goes, all good things come to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Oh, and speaking of Bates, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel is reporting that Bates is thought to have received strong interest from the St. Louis Rams and Houston Texans and could have a job offer before the weekend is over. But since you still have Grey, there would be no reason for the Bills (and Sherman??) to reach out to Bates yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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