dave mcbride Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Don't kid yourself. Dante Scarnecchia is THE best O-line coach in the NFL. When the O-line was having problems in the middle of the season, Brady looked like crap because he was constantly getting harrassed. Against the Bills and Bucs yesterday, he was barely touched. It's the O-line. Always was and always will be. 535856[/snapback] like i said, they have a scheme that minimizes their weaknesses. scheme=coaching ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 like i said, they have a scheme that minimizes their weaknesses. scheme=coaching ... 536198[/snapback] I agree. Talent and raw skills mean little wrt blocking. The only reason that Pace, Munoz, Hannah, Little, Allen, E. Williams, Ogden, or any other of the all-time great blockers that helped their teams reach or win the superbowl were any good was because of coaching. Their strength, speed and brains were something of an afterthought. It was ALL coaching. I don't know how I missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 This has to be sarcasm or blatant trolling. Otherwise, it's "Dawgged". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 This has to be sarcasm or blatant trolling. Otherwise, it's retard. 536207[/snapback] Do you think that his screen name is a clue, or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 like i said, they have a scheme that minimizes their weaknesses. scheme=coaching ... They also have had a very underrated O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Who would likely have more success, JP Losman on the Steelers, or Ben Rothlisberger on the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Who would likely have more success, JP Losman on the Steelers, or Ben Rothlisberger on the Bills? And would Manning have 3 SB rings if HE were in NE and Brady were in Indy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 And would Manning have 3 SB rings if HE were in NE and Brady were in Indy? 536230[/snapback] Probably. Not sure what you're saying though, they both have good offensive lines and have had good or great success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Probably. Not sure what you're saying though... You got it. One has had a better team around him, just like Roethlisberger versus JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Woah buddy, how did I shortchange anyone??? I simply said if we had those three players, I don't think we'd need to upgrade our OL. That's it. 536173[/snapback] I'm simply pointing out the reality that those 3 guys played behind some pretty damn fine offensive lineman........we would still need to upgrade our o line........ Montana was great, but not great enough to overcome the gang we have..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thats why you take the best player available, and when you reach a certain point, you supplement with free agency- that said, we do need to upgrade the offensive line and the defensive line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thats why you take the best player available, and when you reach a certain point, you supplement with free agency- that said, we do need to upgrade the offensive line and the defensive line 536250[/snapback] By taking the best player available it doesn't mean you take players at positions that you don't need. It means you work the draft, move down, pick up some additional draft picks (even if you have to lose some "points" to do it) and take a guy that you need that is near the top of your draft board at that point in the draft. Simply picking the best guy available at positions that are strengths on your team is beyond idiotic (and so is reaching for a pick that doesn't represent value because he's a position of need). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 By taking the best player available it doesn't mean you take players at positions that you don't need. It means you work the draft, move down, pick up some additional draft picks (even if you have to lose some "points" to do it) and take a guy that you need that is near the top of your draft board at that point in the draft. Simply picking the best guy available at positions that are strengths on your team is beyond idiotic (and so is reaching for a pick that doesn't represent value because he's a position of need). 536253[/snapback] I don't disagree- but you don't pass on a blue chip player- thats what I meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 i must say that the line is the most important thing to have on a team. It is repeated that anyone could have a 1000 yard season rushing behind denver's line. Also, we can see what drew Bledsoe is doing this year with some time to throw the ball. If the bills had to somebody to play better at LG and C, Macgahee and Losman would do much better, moulds wouldn't be whining, and josh reed wouldn't be one of the most consistent options for Losman. On Defense, it is the same way. If Adams was playing like he did last year, and Ron Edwards didn't get knocked out for the year, the bills wouldn't have been gashed apart by rookies and backs past their prime this season. The loss of Spikes for the season hurt more at a leadership level than at the performance level as Crowell has performed well. What I noticed last nite while at the game is that Bannan and Anderson were playing their hearts out, while Sam Adams made one play. Someone also mentioned that Aaron Schobel is only a number two DE, i think that is laughable when he has had over 10 sacks twice now and is one of the best run defending DE's in the league. the D-line must be improved up the middle for next year, and Crowell will replace Posey for the defense to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thats why you take the best player available, and when you reach a certain point, you supplement with free agency- that said, we do need to upgrade the offensive line and the defensive line 536250[/snapback] Adam, you are making sense, but the only way to get a star LT seems to be the draft. Teams are prone to utilize the franchis tag on these guys (Pace, Jones), and you are just not going to get a good one in a trade. Yes, Roaf was an exception, but there were very personal issues involving his wife as I recall. Look at how long players such as Pace, Jones, Ogden, Hopkins and other LTs have been with their original teams. Nobody will give these guys up. My point is that if you want a star LT (which almost every team needs), you are going to pay the price of an early draft selection unless you get extremely lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Adam, you are making sense, but the only way to get a star LT seems to be the draft. Teams are prone to utilize the franchis tag on these guys (Pace, Jones), and you are just not going to get a good one in a trade. Yes, Roaf was an exception, but there were very personal issues involving his wife as I recall. Look at how long players such as Pace, Jones, Ogden, Hopkins and other LTs have been with their original teams. Nobody will give these guys up. My point is that if you want a star LT (which almost every team needs), you are going to pay the price of an early draft selection unless you get extremely lucky. 536266[/snapback] And we came pretty close last year- The Jags snagged Barned just before we came up- I dont blame TD for passing on the remaining OT's at that pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 watch the patriots. their linemen are true journeymen at best, but they're surrounded by excellent skill players and a great scheme that minimizes their weaknesses. 535830[/snapback] Call them "journeyman" all you want, they do a good job blocking. I would even offer for consideration the notion that the reason the Pats have been so good for so long is that their coaches are able to spot able lineman among what lesser judges of talent call "journeyman". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Yes, Roaf was an exception, but there were very personal issues involving his wife as I recall. Roaf has injury issues as well and was considered to be on the downside of his career. The Chefs got lucky with that pickup, like they did with the Priest Holmes one. And I agree that it appears that the only way to get a franchise LT is the draft. Hopefully Peters was it (although that would be the "un" draft). BTW, what does this avatar mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5ths the charm Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 With all the talk about how desperately we need to upgrade the o-line and we better not take skill position players I'd offer this hypothetical. . . Would our current team be better if we had Indy's entire o-line rather than our o-line and our current skill position players. . . OR would our current team be better with Peyton Manning at QB, Edge at RB, Harrison & Wayne at WR behind our CURRENT O-line? I have a feeling our O-line would look a heck of a lot better with those skilled people. Our team would clearly be better with Indy's skilled guys vs. Indy's O-Line. So, while we all howl for major upgrades on the O-line, let's not forget that our skill positions could stand an upgrade (especially when Moulds leaves) too! 535638[/snapback] This is a foolish argument, if the QB doesn't have time to throw the ball, or if no holes are opened on the line, all the best skill players in the world won't win you any games. Same with the defense, if the Dline doesn't control the line of scrimmage then the QB has time to throw. All NFL QB's can find receivers with 5-6 seconds to look around or scramble. And certainly if you can't stop the runner til 5 yards into the defensive backfield, whats the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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