tjwbills Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Seems to me that Milloy and the linebackers fly through these lanes with blitzes much like blockers would fill their gap responsibility on a kickoff. Our guys often take themselves out of plays quickly, especially on runs. Teams run us between the tackles ALOT, and you can see Posey and Milloy often being taken out of the play when blockers use their forward motion against them and further cast them outside and away from the pocket. Adams struggles with the zone blitz schemes because he doesnt occupy blockers well. He likes to rush upfield and disrupt things in the backfield. This is all well and good if you make the play. But when he doesnt, Fletcher is almost always swallowed up by a pulling tackle or fullback and if he doesnt make the tackle on the RB, which happened alot yesterday, the runner is into our second layer and OOPs, Milloy is no where near the play either, he's bull rushing the outside of the play. Anderson will be a good fill in for Adams eventually but I'm afraid he's not athletic enough to play our schemes. My advise to Jerry Gray - dumb down the defense a little for obvious run situations. We have athletes who can tackle. Then use the zone blitz schemes on obvious passing downs and with less frequency. Teams will run us 80% of their plays until we show we can stop the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I couldn't agree more. The D is too aggressive for their own good/talent. They are out of control and almost always over-pursuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I don't understand why the coaches don't see this. Are we going to get more quotes this week from players about them not executing their "gap responsibility"? Re: Adams - last year was it him, Williams, or both who were complaining that they were unhappy with their role of simply occupying blockers - that they wanted to get upfield and be "disruptive". It seems with Adams now the whole premise of him occupying blockers has been tossed out the window (perhaps he is one of the people not executing his gap responsibility?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjwbills Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 I don't understand why the coaches don't see this. Are we going to get more quotes this week from players about them not executing their "gap responsibility"? Re: Adams - last year was it him, Williams, or both who were complaining that they were unhappy with their role of simply occupying blockers - that they wanted to get upfield and be "disruptive". It seems with Adams now the whole premise of him occupying blockers has been tossed out the window (perhaps he is one of the people not executing his gap responsibility?). 484586[/snapback] Yeah I think so. I love the guy's motor but they need to build a defense around this team's strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I don't understand why the coaches don't see this. Are we going to get more quotes this week from players about them not executing their "gap responsibility"? Re: Adams - last year was it him, Williams, or both who were complaining that they were unhappy with their role of simply occupying blockers - that they wanted to get upfield and be "disruptive". It seems with Adams now the whole premise of him occupying blockers has been tossed out the window (perhaps he is one of the people not executing his gap responsibility?). 484586[/snapback] I think the personnel issues are more complex than that. The Bills do not have their players playing the same way and role everytime, but i think that opponents now have enough tape of these dances that players can diagnose what the Bills are doing each time and can choose from several options for how to combat and beat what they are seeing. Ex: If Sam lines up this way or has his weight set forward he is going to rush and try to blow the gap and you need to try to beat his first step. However, if Sam is lines up this other way and has his weight set back his jog his to clog the gap and you need to hit him on this shoulder so you are between him and the point of attack. The irony here to me is that the advantage I thought we had because 10 of 11 starters were back on D (and the 11th PW did not even play on over 1/3 of the D snaps last year and seemed imminently replaceable) has actually become a disadvantage as: 1. Teams have a lot of tape on how these players play in this D and can study individual photos to figure out what we are going to do on a particular play based on how we are lined up or their opponents first move. 2. Lebeau provided a roadmap to the Pitts O last year on how to run effectively on the scheme he developed for the Bills and opponents have built on that and their success this year. 3. Personnel problems have excerbated this for the Bills as TKO is gone (though he was getting beaten up and outfoxed before he went out), we have not developed an effective replacement for PW and the age/inexperience balance is allowing opposing WRs to take on out secondary effectively (Milloy is going out, McGee ain't there yet and who knows what Clements issues are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Risk/reward. That's the folly this defense is built upon. We get 5 turnovers and we look like world-beaters. The other team plays a safe ballgame and we are f---ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Seems to me that Milloy and the linebackers fly through these lanes with blitzes much like blockers would fill their gap responsibility on a kickoff. Our guys often take themselves out of plays quickly, especially on runs. Teams run us between the tackles ALOT, and you can see Posey and Milloy often being taken out of the play when blockers use their forward motion against them and further cast them outside and away from the pocket. Adams struggles with the zone blitz schemes because he doesnt occupy blockers well. He likes to rush upfield and disrupt things in the backfield. This is all well and good if you make the play. But when he doesnt, Fletcher is almost always swallowed up by a pulling tackle or fullback and if he doesnt make the tackle on the RB, which happened alot yesterday, the runner is into our second layer and OOPs, Milloy is no where near the play either, he's bull rushing the outside of the play. Anderson will be a good fill in for Adams eventually but I'm afraid he's not athletic enough to play our schemes. My advise to Jerry Gray - dumb down the defense a little for obvious run situations. We have athletes who can tackle. Then use the zone blitz schemes on obvious passing downs and with less frequency. Teams will run us 80% of their plays until we show we can stop the run. 484574[/snapback] Very good points. Fletcher also shoots a lot of gaps instantly taking himself out of the play when the run is to a different gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Seems to me that Milloy and the linebackers fly through these lanes with blitzes much like blockers would fill their gap responsibility on a kickoff. Our guys often take themselves out of plays quickly, especially on runs. Teams run us between the tackles ALOT, and you can see Posey and Milloy often being taken out of the play when blockers use their forward motion against them and further cast them outside and away from the pocket. Adams struggles with the zone blitz schemes because he doesnt occupy blockers well. He likes to rush upfield and disrupt things in the backfield. This is all well and good if you make the play. But when he doesnt, Fletcher is almost always swallowed up by a pulling tackle or fullback and if he doesnt make the tackle on the RB, which happened alot yesterday, the runner is into our second layer and OOPs, Milloy is no where near the play either, he's bull rushing the outside of the play. Anderson will be a good fill in for Adams eventually but I'm afraid he's not athletic enough to play our schemes. My advise to Jerry Gray - dumb down the defense a little for obvious run situations. We have athletes who can tackle. Then use the zone blitz schemes on obvious passing downs and with less frequency. Teams will run us 80% of their plays until we show we can stop the run. 484574[/snapback] In a word...Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 In a word...Exactly... 484746[/snapback] The onus is on the coaching staff to identify the strength and weakness of the available players on the team and then gameplan to the strength of the teams personnel.......This coaching staff gets a big F for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Numerous posters in the past have been big blitz fans. Those that pointed out the pitfalls were ridiculed by same. The chickens have come home to roost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Numerous posters in the past have been big blitz fans. Those that pointed out the pitfalls were ridiculed by same. The chickens have come home to roost. 484772[/snapback] Well I hear ya Bro...But were they Blitz Fans in the vein of That-is-the-only-possible-way-we-can-get-to-the-QB-with-this-Talent? Or did they think it was an effective way of Playing Defense... Just wondering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Well I hear ya Bro...But were they Blitz Fans in the vein of That-is-the-only-possible-way-we-can-get-to-the-QB-with-this-Talent? Or did they think it was an effective way of Playing Defense... Just wondering? 484778[/snapback] Out-and-out blitz nearly every play was their battle cry. Nothing to do with effective defense...staying "home", so to speak, helps. Sacks are nice, but over the long run, IMO better to clog up the LOS and look to the defensive backfield for the pass coverage. Blitzes can be useful, but frankly I want my 4 DL's occupying 5 OL's, my LB's prepared to catch a back popping through or a short pass. My idea of a blitz is a safety or cb coming in as an unmolested surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I would agree with this. And I would add that the inordinate amount of twisting and stunting the Bills are doing are having a seriously negative effect on the integrity of our run defense. I haven't taped any games this year but I bet a closer examination would reveal a lot of running lanes in the huge gaps which are opening up when guys are looping looking to create pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I would agree with this.And I would add that the inordinate amount of twisting and stunting the Bills are doing are having a seriously negative effect on the integrity of our run defense. I haven't taped any games this year but I bet a closer examination would reveal a lot of running lanes in the huge gaps which are opening up when guys are looping looking to create pressure. 484851[/snapback] If you watch this Defense for two seconds it is glaringly obvious there is a lot of twisting, stunting, and flying around...What is lacking is any semblance of physicality, dicipline, etc... It looks like he's trying to get it done with Tricks and Mirrors...And he already has a lack of Talent to deal with in my opinion...It's like trying to put out a Forest Fire with a squirt Gun that looks like Hurricane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjwbills Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 If you watch this Defense for two seconds it is glaringly obvious there is a lot of twisting, stunting, and flying around...What is lacking is any semblance of physicality, dicipline, etc... It looks like he's trying to get it done with Tricks and Mirrors...And he already has a lack of Talent to deal with in my opinion...It's like trying to put out a Forest Fire with a squirt Gun that looks like Hurricane... 484863[/snapback] Thats true and when you rely on these schemes to bring pressure you lose your ability to bring it in a more simplistic and less obvious way: your front four. The front four doesnt get enough reps in a four man rush scheme to be good at it. Dear Coach Gray: Moderation. Sincerely, Bills fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 And he already has a lack of Talent to deal with in my opinion I don't see this is a problem at all. In fact if the Bills D was short on talent I would probably be encouraging Gray to keep it up in hopes of flipping field position by forcing turnovers. The Bills definitely need another good DT in the rotation and could used an upgrade at hte strongside 'backer, but aside from that I think they're in good shape. I see the problem is that he has a lot of talent on this defense but doesn't seem interested in just letting it play. When you have guys like Adams, Spikes, Clemetns, Fletcher, Milloy, Schobel, McGee and Vincent sometimes your best bet is to just let them go out there and make the plays for you. But talented players can't make plays when a staff that's too smart for its own good constantly has them out of position and nowhere near where they need to be to let their talent take over. Maybe Gray is a good fit for a young talent-challenged team where his defense can be effective only through forcing mistakes through schemes. But he's not a good fit overcoaching a team carrying a defense stocked with good ballplayers who will make plays if you just let them. Cya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I would agree with this. 484851[/snapback] The offense has the edge. They start the play. Defense is reactive - forget the fancy stuff and the showboating. The defense's job is reduce the possibilities of success by the offense, and most of an offense's success occurs close to the LOS. IMO the only allowed gamblers on a defense are the cb's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Amen to all this. This high risk/high potential for disaster defensive mode has never appealed to me. Adams may be quick and huge, but he's penetrating himself out of the play half the time. Same with all the stunts, etc. Play more vanilla and cover the receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Seems to me that Milloy and the linebackers fly through these lanes with blitzes much like blockers would fill their gap responsibility on a kickoff. Our guys often take themselves out of plays quickly, especially on runs. Teams run us between the tackles ALOT, and you can see Posey and Milloy often being taken out of the play when blockers use their forward motion against them and further cast them outside and away from the pocket. Adams struggles with the zone blitz schemes because he doesnt occupy blockers well. He likes to rush upfield and disrupt things in the backfield. This is all well and good if you make the play. But when he doesnt, Fletcher is almost always swallowed up by a pulling tackle or fullback and if he doesnt make the tackle on the RB, which happened alot yesterday, the runner is into our second layer and OOPs, Milloy is no where near the play either, he's bull rushing the outside of the play. Anderson will be a good fill in for Adams eventually but I'm afraid he's not athletic enough to play our schemes. My advise to Jerry Gray - dumb down the defense a little for obvious run situations. We have athletes who can tackle. Then use the zone blitz schemes on obvious passing downs and with less frequency. Teams will run us 80% of their plays until we show we can stop the run. 484574[/snapback] That was really brilliant - great post & observation...Kyle Vanden Bosch - where are ye? Didn't he come to Orchard Park. Our talent evaluators thought he was done... We just don't have anyone in our D-Line that strikes fear into the opposing "O." Sorry, Sam Adams ain't it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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