Beerfist Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 ..not by a longshot..it is the suspect play of the offensive line..along with the even more suspect play of the defense as a whole...it is an obvious, glaring problem that gray's defensive schemes do NOT work this year as a result of having to compensate for the lack of penetration in the run defense..simply put we MUST put 8 in the box ALONG WITH not blitz every down to have any form of effect on our opponents run game..our opponent can do what we cannot..balance the run and the pass on offense...and again, its not because of holcomb that our passing game is inefficient, in fact, i only remember him missing one throw (for freddy smith) the entire game..while receiving no support..simply put, this offensive line is designed for a running offense 100%..and 0% for a passing offense..which is needed if at ANY point we are down in a football game (i.e. the second half today) So personally, i think there is NO need to put losman in other than to state that we have given up on this team this year, and we want losman to see game action...BUT..if by some miracle, the run defense and oline figure their s#$^ out and we restart to become competitive..i want holcomb behind center..any other thoughts?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Where are all those people who said JP wouldn't have won those two home games against those Mediocre opponents... The bottom line is we never ran the ball well and let our opponents run all over us in all our losses...The QBs had minimal impact on those loses...To make JP scape goat was simply terrible call by MM..... When your starting WRs repeatedly are going for 40 and 20 yards per game....there is fundamentally something wrong with this team... NOw comes the brigade....loss is not Holcomb....Of course it is not.... The defense and OL stinks.....Problem is not with the QB... Moulds was so vocal about having Holcomb in...How did he fare...39 yards..... Another poster had bitched about JP not able to take advantage of the street corners of the Falcons.....even though the Falcons had a terrific pass rush.....How about Holcomb handling the Raiders without Woodson for most of the day..... THe problem within this team runs much deepers than the QB play... I agree JP hadn't played good, nor has Holcomb....the problem lies in other places like play calling, pass blocking, run defense...etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 in fact, i only remember him missing one throw (for freddy smith) the entire game.. 484173[/snapback] Bad throws by KH, off the top of my head: missed a wide open Reed on a fly route tossed a pass at Campbell's feet threw high to Moulds causing a drop the freddie miss you mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Bad throws by KH, off the top of my head: missed a wide open Reed on a fly route tossed a pass at Campbell's feet threw high to Moulds causing a drop the freddie miss you mentioned 484183[/snapback] Fumbled a snap that hit his hands Almost fumbled another snap Can't throw a pass over 15 yards with any accuracy PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Fumbled a snap that hit his hands Almost fumbled another snap Can't throw a pass over 15 yards with any accuracy PTR 484188[/snapback] I didn't forget those, I was just addressing missed throws in my post. I'd add taking an 18 yd sack deep in our territory to your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfist Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 I didn't forget those, I was just addressing missed throws in my post. I'd add taking an 18 yd sack deep in our territory to your list. 484193[/snapback] so in saying so...do u believe that jp losman would have done a better job?..has jp thrown for two touchdowns this year..let alone in the same game..yes u are right about the sack and the fumble..i did forget those before i posted...but once again, the problem is not the quarterback on this football team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 so in saying so...do u believe that jp losman would have done a better job?..has jp thrown for two touchdowns this year..let alone in the same game..yes u are right about the sack and the fumble..i did forget those before i posted...but once again, the problem is not the quarterback on this football team 484205[/snapback] I honestly don't know if JP would have done better. I just think people(fans, not specifically you) should not vilify Bennie Anderson for missing a block and absolve KH for a bad throw or decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 There's a lot of blame to go around for this debacle, and Holcomb deserves some of that blame. If he didn't have the arm strength of an adolescent girl, maybe we could have challenged the 28th ranked pass D of the Raiders beyond...you know...10 yards or so????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Holcomb didn't play as well today as he did his first two starts. Even so, he completed over 70% of his passes, and had 1 TD and 0 INTs. The offense scored 17 points despite a very quiet day by Willis. Had our defense played well, we would have won 17-14 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I didn't forget those, I was just addressing missed throws in my post. I'd add taking an 18 yd sack deep in our territory to your list. 484193[/snapback] That was rather JP like if you ask me ...at least when JP did it on the road you could hope that he might out run the defense and excuse it as a rookie mistake..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Holcomb didn't play as well today as he did his first two starts. Even so, he completed over 70% of his passes, and had 1 TD and 0 INTs. The offense scored 17 points despite a very quiet day by Willis. Had our defense played well, we would have won 17-14 or something. 484236[/snapback] If our defense had played well we would still have LOST 20-17!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethinShelby Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Holcomb was exposed today. The coaches helped expose him for what he is today. Every game so far he has either mishandled a snap or messed up a simple handoff. The first 2 games Holcomb played Willis got over probably 23 carries and we won. The defense did not force any turnovers Collins gave them a turnover. When we do not commit to the run and we do not get 3 turnovers we do not win. Losman and Holcomb are about the same. So why not play the young kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Where are all those people who said JP wouldn't have won those twohome games against those Mediocre opponents... 484180[/snapback] Here Is one of them...JP, as he played the first four weeks of this season, would have been destroyed today...Holcomb was far from perfect, but I would argue that he and his short passing game were the only offensive success that Bills had today...those same, short passes that JP could not make...and before you go on and on about Holcomb not being able to complete a 15 yard pass, keep in mind, he didn't attempt any today, as CBS kept pointing out...if you love JP, and you think he is the future of this team, be thankful that he is not playing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 if you love JP, and you think he is the future of this team, be thankful that he is not playing right now. 484274[/snapback] So in other words your saying even though we beat miami and the jets without JP we really do totally suck and the other loss's were not JP's fault????If that's the case then why waste time with KH, we are going nowhere and many of us have said let the kid play and learn....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 So in other words your saying even though we beat miami and the jets without JP we really do totally suck and the other loss's were not JP's fault????If that's the case then why waste time with KH, we are going nowhere and many of us have said let the kid play and learn....... 484294[/snapback] Huh? Not sure you got that, out of what I said. My point was, the way he was playing for us before being benched, would have been bloodied pretty badly today. We may really suck, but JP was a big contributer to our suckiness in weeks 2-4. I didn't blame him for the Bucs loss, even though he was terrible, because I thought the team as a whole was unprepared, and outplayed by the Bucs. Much like today. Against the Falcons and Saints, however, JP had ample opportunity to make plays, and couldn't. I think, all things considered, Kelly Holcomb played pretty well against the Raiders (I am not saying he played perfectly), and made a lot of plays that Losman likely would have not made. Losman, IMO, would have been battered pretty well by the Raiders. As slow as Holcomb may appear to be to many, he actually avoided a lot of pressure today, by simply being aware. The sacks he took, were of the missed assignment type, and are on the O-line. Losman, to this point, hasn't displayed that kind of awareness. As far as giving JP time to grow, I have always said, give Holcomb a shot to see if he can get this team playing better than Losman has. The Bills owe it to the fans to try to get the team to the playoffs, if nothing else. When the switch was made, Losman was coming off a third consecutive dreadful performance. The benching was warrented, and the right decision to make. Holcomb, warts and all, is at this point in time, a better NFL QB than JP Losman. Once the Bills playoff hopes (as faint as they may be to some) are completely dashed (they took a big hit today), then we can start playing for next year. The Bills lose next week, and JP should get 8 more starts to learn for next year. That would give him 12 starts on the year, 5 more than Eli Manning had last year. I use the Manning analogy, only because the Losman crusaders seem to keep bringing it up, failing to recognize that the Giants did not sacrifice an entire season to watch Eli grow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Huh? Not sure you got that, out of what I said. My point was, the way he was playing for us before being benched, would have been bloodied pretty badly today. We may really suck, but JP was a big contributer to our suckiness in weeks 2-4. I didn't blame him for the Bucs loss, even though he was terrible, because I thought the team as a whole was unprepared, and outplayed by the Bucs. Much like today. Against the Falcons and Saints, however, JP had ample opportunity to make plays, and couldn't. I think, all things considered, Kelly Holcomb played pretty well against the Raiders (I am not saying he played perfectly), and made a lot of plays that Losman likely would have not made. Losman, IMO, would have been battered pretty well by the Raiders. As slow as Holcomb may appear to be to many, he actually avoided a lot of pressure today, by simply being aware. The sacks he took, were of the missed assignment type, and are on the O-line. Losman, to this point, hasn't displayed that kind of awareness. 484311[/snapback] To me its all moot now because we will never know if he would have gained anything from 2 winnable games at home... but to me the bills today really didn't look any different from the team that lost in weeks 2-4 ,,,,games that they were in until very late I might add.We were out of this game at the start of the 3 qt ....outcoached again,,and I'm sick an tired of it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Holcomb was exposed today. The coaches helped expose him for what he is today. Every game so far he has either mishandled a snap or messed up a simple handoff. The first 2 games Holcomb played Willis got over probably 23 carries and we won. The defense did not force any turnovers Collins gave them a turnover. When we do not commit to the run and we do not get 3 turnovers we do not win. Losman and Holcomb are about the same. So why not play the young kid? 484273[/snapback] The key is turnovers. This defense cannot stop anybody. So when they get lucky and create a TO, the offense get another chance at points and the def. gets off the field. A TO is the only way this def. gets off the field, except giving up the TD of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 threw high to Moulds causing a drop the freddie miss you mentioned 484183[/snapback] It may have been a little bit high but holy crap that pass still hit him right in the hands...pack your sh-- Eric you're over the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I don't think any one person is to blame for this loss, our defense couldn't stop a damn thing, so the offense was hard pressed to stay in the game. BUT, Holcombs inability to throw down field is pretty apparent. A QB with an arm would be nice. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Bring back JP holcolmb is not better. Teams have figured out his short pass gameplan. JP offers more for a defense to consider than kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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