Smoker2Buffalo Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. Do the Bills realize that they are still supposed to play after the first drive? We score on just about every first drive, but can't keep the production going. WHY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Yes, I think Pat Williams is a big loss. And yes, put in JP & Roscoe. We desperately need to play for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 You need to wait until Tuesday evening. At least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grabowr30045 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Answers to your questions: A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? YES! I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. (You give me a better explanation and maybe I'll buy it. We're not allowing are LBs to close the gaps.) Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? (He has no time. Bennie is better in the Jets than he is in Buffalo.) It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? (Next week. Let the healing begin.) I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? (Being careful with him.) I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. 483739[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. 483739[/snapback] I dont think its the lack of Williams he aint helping the Vikes much and isnt the sole reason. I think the major reasons are the following : Vincent cant tackle to save his life, Sam is shooting the gap consistently and teams are exploiting the over persuit of this defense. We also are blitzing alot more it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. Do the Bills realize that they are still supposed to play after the first drive? We score on just about every first drive, but can't keep the production going. WHY? 483739[/snapback] Here's a try at intelligence in it's simplest form. This is about the most intelligent it needs to get. We win against the worst teams in the NFL at home. We lose to them more often than not on the road. We hardly ever beat winning teams. Last year's run came vs. a pathetic schedule. Then the Steelers kicked our asses. This year....check it out.....we've beaten winless Houston, and 2 win, Miami and the Jets at home. We are not a good football team, and I want to know how long Tom Donahoe gets. The proof..... 23 Games of Data Overall Vs. teams under .500 (8-3) Vs. teams at .500 (2-0) Vs. teams over .500 (2-8) Best win vs. 10-6 NY Jets (home) On the road...... Vs. teams under .500 (2-3) Worst Loss vs. 5-11 Oakland Vs. teams at .500 (1-0) Vs. teams over .500 (1-4) Best win vs. 9-7 Seattle At home..... Vs. teams under .500 (6-0) N/A Vs. teams at .500 (1-0) Vs. teams over .500 (1-4) Best win vs. 10-6 NY Jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalfan Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 No I don't think that loosing Pat was that big of a deal. The defensive signal calling is a little odd. They tend to zone blitz a bit too much. It opens lanes for running and I think the opponents are planning on those types of blitzes especially on first downs. We tend to play off the receivers. I'm not sure why, but today it hurt us. We have to tighten it up. I thought we should have continued on with JP. Kelly wasn't the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. 483739[/snapback] To me it's really quite simple. We lost Pat Williams to FA and we broght in no PROVEN replacement. They thought MAYBE Ron Edwards could get the job done, but he was a good replacement not starter. Big mistake. If you lose a proven veteran like Pat you better be darn sure you have a proven replacement. On top of that losing Spikes really hurt. You also have over rated players like Clements on defense. A similar situation on offense. It all starts with line play and TD ignored the loss of JJ on a line that was already bad, instead he went after more skill players which is not how you build a team. Just pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. 483739[/snapback] I think Roscoe is purely a health issue...In that they dont want to rush him back and risk losing him for the Season....But it was good to see him on the Field for a couple Plays at least today... As far as JP is concerned he should have never been Benched just to appease the Vets on this Team so that they can brag about their Stats they racked up on a 6-10, instead of a 4-12 Team???...So I say put him in next week at NE... Because JP, or no JP, the Bills are gonna get punked by the Patriots...So why not let the Kid Play on Sunday Night?...Like it matters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I though that Phat Pat was only on the field for 50% of the plays last year? Anyway you look at it, we need to address that position in the offseason. Jordan was going through our D-line untouched, and had a full head of steam when he got to the linebackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 A couple of questions for people who want to actually have an intelligent discussion, rather than just saying "We suck." Who are probably the same people who last week said, "I told you we'd start winning again", who two weeks earlier said "We suck." Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. Do the Bills realize that they are still supposed to play after the first drive? We score on just about every first drive, but can't keep the production going. WHY? 483739[/snapback] They called the deep ball a couple of times and holcomb dumped it off, or overthrew it.Roscoe is a rookie he can get lots of time at home against KC..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Do you credit the terrible run defense to the loss of Pat Williams? I find it hard to believe that he is the singular reason that we can no longer stop the run, but I can't find any other glaring reasons. No, but I'm stupid, and even I knew that there were no players on the roster that could come close to taking Pat's spot... by not getting an adequate replacement for Pat, they rendered Sam Adams totally useless. Is there any particular reason that they don't allow Holcomb to try any throws over 10 yards? It seems like they don't even want to get a TD. On 3rd and 18, they run a planned screen. Why don't they at least TRY to get the first down? 1) because they can't protect him. 2) he has no arm and no long ball. At what point does Losman go back in? I actually thought we'd see him later today after we were down by 14 for the second time. 1) when Holcomb get's injured, 2) Malarkey realizes the season is over, 3) the Bills are mathematically elimated from playoff contention. Why aren't they utilizing Roscoe more? I know he's probably not 100% yet, but they raved about him in camp, but I only think I saw him 2 or 3 times on offense. 1) they raved about JP in preseason too. He's turned out to be a real find. Roscoe is basically punt return fodder and he's going to be a regular in the trainers room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 The problem with the run D is actually the pass D - yes yes I know, ranked #1 in the NFL (before this game) - we all know that's B.S. This D consistently gives up third-and-long situations, which lets the other team's offense run the ball more, leading to more chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 BAD DEFENSE NOTES: 1) Something I noticed and had suspected for several weeks now. We have two of the worst run support/ and worst tackling safeties in the league. Milloy who is normally solid against the run has been playing lame with a bad wrist. Granted he's still better than a healthy Coy Wire, but can't wrap up on his own. 2nd Troy Vincent doesn't hesitate to lay the big hit on a defenseless receiver in the air, however, I've seen him be very very shy when it comes to tackling a big runner coming at him full steam. I can understand his mental position, "I'm 33, I want to have a healthy couple more years before I throw in the towel, whats the point of stopping this guy 5 yards short when they're going to run it down our throats again on the ensuing play." 2) Our interior D-line is outright weak. Need to find a free agent/solid draft pick. Tim Anderson and Justin bannan are not the answer. 3) Jerry Gray week in and week out brings blitz packages that do not work. Our guys NEVER get to the QB. Our Blitz package and the threat of a blitz doesn't scare any offensive line with the exception of Houston. 4) Our defense lost its nastiness with the loss of spikes. Nobody gets pumped up, everybody plays flat. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan Denney in at DT here and there. lets see what the guy can do, as it is right now, NOBODY can shed a block. The guy had 2 sacks last week with minimal play, get him some playing time. Get SAPE OFF THE GODDANG field. SAPE woulnd't be on most NFL rosters. 5) The team ought to be running tackling drills all week. LOSMAN: I've seen what Holcomb can bring to the table. He brings an Alex Van Pelt like approach to the game. He's definitely a field general... However he's a field general without the supporting fire power. Hence he can only take you so far. He has a limp noodle for an arm. His accuracy is suspect past 10yards. Bring in the young buck again. New England will gameplan our vanilla offense with ease. I'd be shocked if we put up more than 10pts next week with Holcomb at the reigns... I personally was rooting for JP to come in when we were flat towards the end of the 3rd qurter, to provide that "spark" that Mularkey looked for from Holcomb in the first 4 games. I'd rather see the gunslinger firing away downfield with a mistake or two, than a wimpy dink and dunker chipping away 4 yards at a time. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I think our worse defensive production can be explained largely by 2 things: 1) The design of our overly aggressive defense is such that it can really beat up on poor teams but is susceptable to better offenses. Last years #s were greatly padded by the fact that we played some pretty poor offenses w/ downright lame QBs. 2) I mentioned this in the pre-season as a possible concern & unfortunately, I'm beginning to think it might be true - our dee is in decline due to many contributors being on the wrong side of the career hill. Our 3 starting LBs (meaning Spikes), Fat Sam & our 2 safeties could all be in decline. Not much, but it doesn't take much to make the difference between being successful & failing on a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I dont think its the lack of Williams he aint helping the Vikes much and isnt the sole reason. I think the major reasons are the following : Vincent cant tackle to save his life, Sam is shooting the gap consistently and teams are exploiting the over persuit of this defense. We also are blitzing alot more it seems. 483753[/snapback] you obviously didn't see the vikes game today.....pat williams was in the backfield constantly....... yes, we miss pat's play on the field...... even bigger, we miss his leadership.......that aspect of what pat brought to this team has been sorely missed on this board, both at the time of the loss and now......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 BAD DEFENSE NOTES: 1) Something I noticed and had suspected for several weeks now. We have two of the worst run support/ and worst tackling safeties in the league. Milloy who is normally solid against the run has been playing lame with a bad wrist. Granted he's still better than a healthy Coy Wire, but can't wrap up on his own. 2nd Troy Vincent doesn't hesitate to lay the big hit on a defenseless receiver in the air, however, I've seen him be very very shy when it comes to tackling a big runner coming at him full steam. I can understand his mental position, "I'm 33, I want to have a healthy couple more years before I throw in the towel, whats the point of stopping this guy 5 yards short when they're going to run it down our throats again on the ensuing play." 2) Our interior D-line is outright weak. Need to find a free agent/solid draft pick. Tim Anderson and Justin bannan are not the answer. 3) Jerry Gray week in and week out brings blitz packages that do not work. Our guys NEVER get to the QB. Our Blitz package and the threat of a blitz doesn't scare any offensive line with the exception of Houston. 4) Our defense lost its nastiness with the loss of spikes. Nobody gets pumped up, everybody plays flat. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan Denney in at DT here and there. lets see what the guy can do, as it is right now, NOBODY can shed a block. The guy had 2 sacks last week with minimal play, get him some playing time. Get SAPE OFF THE GODDANG field. SAPE woulnd't be on most NFL rosters. 5) The team ought to be running tackling drills all week. LOSMAN: I've seen what Holcomb can bring to the table. He brings an Alex Van Pelt like approach to the game. He's definitely a field general... However he's a field general without the supporting fire power. Hence he can only take you so far. He has a limp noodle for an arm. His accuracy is suspect past 10yards. Bring in the young buck again. New England will gameplan our vanilla offense with ease. I'd be shocked if we put up more than 10pts next week with Holcomb at the reigns... I personally was rooting for JP to come in when we were flat towards the end of the 3rd qurter, to provide that "spark" that Mularkey looked for from Holcomb in the first 4 games. I'd rather see the gunslinger firing away downfield with a mistake or two, than a wimpy dink and dunker chipping away 4 yards at a time. Just my opinion. 483889[/snapback] Agreed with everything except for the Sape rant, but I only disagree with that because I didn't notce him in there - not enough info to evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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