Some Facts about Kelly Holcomb

[Dawgg]

Thank you.

 

Well said.

 

It is only a QB controversy if the "fans" make it one!  What an unbelievably thin skinned bunch we have here...

 

Say what you will about the defense, they are clearly not as good as we expected.  However, they have kept us in 3 games that could have been much worse, just waiting for the offense to make a play.  They couldn't, under JP.  Why not give the other guy a chance? 

 

I can't remember this many drama queens on TSW over any one topic in ages...if Holcomb sucks, as 90% of the board here seems to assume/hope he will, the JP experiment will continue.  If we don't win 3 of the next 4, or if Holcomb stinks it up like Losman has, you can be sure that Losman will have the rest of the season to learn.  Get a grip people!  This was the right decision.  I am sure JP will be just fine, and maybe, the rest of the offense will get a lift.

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[Bill from NYC]

In a Wildcard Playoff against the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2003, Kelly Holcomb threw for the third most passing yards in NFL postseason history.

 

A) His running game featured William Green, a career disappointment who has even today never run for 1000 yards in a season over his career.

 

B) He was throwing to a receiving corps of Kevin Johnson, Dennis Northcut, Quincy Morgan plus our very own Mark Campbell at TE.

 

C) He was protected by an offensive line consisting of Ryan Tucker, Paul Zakauskas, a twilight Dave Wohlabaugh, Ross Verba and Barry Stokes. (Lori- feel free to correct me here)

 

D) It was Holcomb’s first start in 14 games for the Browns.

467970[/snapback]

 

One more thing to consider.

 

JP is very cocky, and this is good. Maybe if RJ had some of this he would still be in this league. Lord knows he had super talent.

JP has been coddled. Coach Wyche babysat him all winter. Has he worked hard? Yes, and I appreciate this, but please, can we switch gears a moment and go back to last week......

JP, on the sidelines after being benched for poor play, was running around with the high fives, etc. I ask his biggest supporters here......did you feel uneasy at all? News Flash JP: This is NOT your team yet. I hope that some day it is, but not today!

MM is a football man. Some of you are down on him now, but he is a tried and true football man who has risin through the ranks. The Buffalo Bills are HIS football team!

I am glad the he is pulling the coat of JP. Imo, Losman needed to take a step back and relax just a bit.

 

My daughter went to a public school. She was the only National Merit, and National Hispanic Merit student in her large district. She could talk at 6 months and read fluently at the age of 4. She breezed through school.

She got admitted into an Ivy League school and things changed. There, she found many kids smarter than her. She had a professor (from Bed-Stuy, NY) who, when answering questions, could actually quote specific pages of books. Not that she thought that it would be simple, but she was subject to intellect that she had never seen, and had to pick it up to compete and excel.

 

OK, sorry to brag , but JP is also young. He needs to learn just how good the competition is. He needs to see how hard it is to win the confidence of his fellow Bills. Most importantly, he needs discipline. MM is the coach. HE made a decision. JP has choices now, and I hope that he takes this as a learning experience.

 

We, as Bills fans truly do NEED for JP to be a player so that we can plug other holes and win a superbowl.

I am asking those who read this post to just consider the possibility that MM is doing this young man a favor.

[stuckincincy]

If they can't beat the Jets, they're not going to beat us. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 

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Darn right, ajz. I like your loyalty and refusal to follow the rats leaving the ship just because the weather is rough.

[CoachChuckDickerson]

...or not,  let's get on his bandwagon.  I'm mad,  and can echo a lot of the sentiments around here today (especially JSP's),  but it's not Kelly's fault.

 

He didn't pull a Flutie,  and seems to be a class act.  I for one will be screaming my ass off for him Sunday,  because he's the starting QB for my Bills.  Let's be serious,  last season at this time some of us would have given our left nut to have him as QB instead of Drew,  not because he is better,  but because he's ABD.  (Anybody But Drew)

 

He's a solid QB,  and I still think there is hope for the playoffs.

468066[/snapback]

 

I agree completely. I don't think anybody here today who is supporting Holcomb claims he is the answer to the QB problem that has plagued the Bills since Jimbo. But he is a proven vet that can manage a game and maybe, just maybe he is the spark that will get things going for this team. If not, !@#$ it, they can start JSP at QB for the rest of the season for all I care.

[Campy]

I'd like to know where the magical talent on defense and offensive line is going to come from to make this a playoff team.

I believe this team has playoff calibre players. Be patient.

 

Anyone who believes this sh-- is delusional. 

To each his own. Pass me the shrooms.

 

I can't !@#$ing believe that Mularkey has brought another QB controversy upon us.

He didn't, nor will he have to. With all of the bitching going on around here, it sounds like we fans have created it, not the coach, His job is to try and win games. If a couple of fans get their feathers ruffled because mother didn't hold them enough as infants that's their problem, not mine, not his.

 

This is why we're going to be sitting with our thumbs up our asses in the next few years wondering how we start over while the Giants and Bengals improve and become contenders.

Hmm. Well, considering that alternative is pissing and moaning like a bunch of schoolgirls on an internet message board... I'm still waiting for my shrooms. Pass them and the KY too.

 

Who wants to start making bets on who will be named our third coach under TD?

Huh?

 

And for the record, I'm sure Holcomb's a great guy, he's played a few exciting games, but his record as a starter is proven.  If we wanted what he brings to an offense, we should have kept Bledsoe.

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Exactly. I would have prefered to let Losman mature for another year myself, but that's not the case. Too bad Bledsoe was chased out of town... Either way, it's not permanent. Just relax and roll with it.

[bleedinblue]

...or not,  let's get on his bandwagon.  I'm mad,  and can echo a lot of the sentiments around here today (especially JSP's),  but it's not Kelly's fault.

 

He didn't pull a Flutie,  and seems to be a class act.  I for one will be screaming my ass off for him Sunday,  because he's the starting QB for my Bills.  Let's be serious,  last season at this time some of us would have given our left nut to have him as QB instead of Drew,  not because he is better,  but because he's ABD.  (Anybody But Drew)

 

He's a solid QB,  and I still think there is hope for the playoffs.

468066[/snapback]

Heck, I hope Holcomb goes 30-36, throws for 5 TD's and kicks the proverbial crap out of Miami! But I also know that the long term interests of the team are not served by starting him this or any other week. He is no Frank Reich and his first name is Kelly not his last. He has had an overwhelmingly mediocre career (ie. 26TD's-29INT's) and everyone wants to remember the one career game vr. Pitt in the playoffs (which he lost by the way). Sure the AFC East is weak and with a few wins we could possibly contend. Then what? An early playoff exit, followed by returning to the same QB delema we had with DB, just not good enough to get us there. The Manning and Palmer comparisons are apt, "you have to pay your dues" and get the next generation QB the experience it takes to succeed in the NFL. Benching him at home against weaker opponents for the short term sake of a couple of wins will only delay his development and will also distance the team further from its ultimate goals. Lets hope we squish the fish. Lets also hope that the Bills braintrust is in this for the long term, not immediate gratification.

[ajzepp]

Darn right, ajz. I like your loyalty and refusal to follow the rats leaving the ship just because the weather is rough.

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Heck no, cincy.....I'm a Bills fan for life! I don't know who the hell I think should start at QB anymore, but I know we're going to win the damn game!

[Risin]

I agree completely. I don't think anybody here today who is supporting Holcomb claims he is the answer to the QB problem that has plagued the Bills since Jimbo. But he is a proven vet that can manage a game and maybe, just maybe he is the spark that will get things going for this team. If not, !@#$ it, they can start JSP at QB for the rest of the season for all I care.

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Man, if you agree I'm going to edit my post.

[Risin]

Heck, I hope Holcomb goes 30-36, throws for 5 TD's and kicks the proverbial crap out of Miami!  But I also know that the long term interests of the team are not served by starting him this or any other week.  He is no Frank Reich and his first name is Kelly not his last.  He has had an overwhelmingly mediocre career (ie. 26TD's-29INT's) and everyone wants to remember the one career game vr. Pitt in the playoffs (which he lost by the way).  Sure the AFC East is weak and with a few wins we could possibly contend.  Then what?  An early playoff exit, followed by returning to the same QB delema we had with DB, just not good enough to get us there.  The Manning and Palmer comparisons are apt, "you have to pay your dues" and get the next generation QB the experience it takes to succeed in the NFL.  Benching him at home against weaker opponents for the short term sake of a couple of wins will only delay his development and will also distance the team further from its ultimate goals.  Lets hope we squish the fish. Lets also hope that the Bills braintrust is in this for the long term, not immediate gratification.

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I agree, long term this move stinks.

 

Aside from that, MM owes it to the veteran players on this team to field the players that give us the best chance to win now. I can't fault him for that, especially since I don't have to look these men in the eyes. I think we can all agree Kelly is the better QB now, as much as it pains me to admit it.

[Johnny]

Man,  if you agree I'm going to edit my post.       

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if you the fan does not have a voice then they can keep putting any second rate product they want on the field......might as well be a cubs fan ...........coaches are paid to make decisions and if you dont agree with them let them know with a few boo's.........mularkey from play calling down to banking on a journeyman bench warmer deserves to be booed

[Risin]

if you the fan does not have a voice then they can keep putting any second rate product they want on the field......might as well be a cubs fan ...........coaches are paid to make decisions and if you dont agree with them let them know with a few boo's.........mularkey from play calling down banking on a journeyman bench warmer deserves to be booed

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Let me clarify, I AM AGAINST THIS MOVE!!!!

 

All I'm asking, get behind our guy!

 

Bitching does Bills fans little, remember TD's quote? "save the postage."

[bleedinblue]

I agree,  long term this move stinks. 

 

Aside from that,  MM owes it to the veteran players on this team to field the players that give us the best chance to win now.  I can't fault him for that,  especially since I don't have to look these men in the eyes.  I think we can all agree Kelly is the better QB now,  as much as it pains me to admit it. 

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Not sure I can buy any coach owing his vetrans anything. These guys are paid an awful lot of money to play football, not win, not lose, not anything but play.

 

Can't disagree that at this moment, from the view of managing a game, Holcomb is better. Talent wise, not even close. The classic short term fix versus long term gain scenario. No one ever wins that one on either end.

[Johnny]

Not sure I can buy any coach owing his vetrans anything.  These guys are paid an awful lot of money to play football, not win, not lose, not anything but play. 

 

Can't disagree that at this moment, from the view of managing a game, Holcomb is better.  Talent wise, not even close.  The classic short term fix versus long term gain scenario.  No one ever wins that one on either end.

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read moulds quotes......sounds like a guy in his contract year

[Risin]

read moulds quotes......sounds like a guy in his contract year

468182[/snapback]

 

 

Isn't he though, kinda?

 

You think he's back next season, with deflating stats, and increasing cap number?

[Johnny]

Isn't he though,  kinda?

 

You think he's back next season,  with deflating stats,  and increasing cap number?

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yeah i think he's worried bout himself .......frustrated.......spitting mad

 

cant blame a guy for wanting to be competitive but long run he might be better served to hurry up and wait.............holcomb increases his numbers, but not by what he's pipe dreaming for

[stuckincincy]

Take a look at his start off the bench last season against Cincinnati, playing with the same group of guys our defense kicked the living crap out of.  Holcomb knows how to read a defense and get rid of the ball.  The question is truly whether or not Trey Teague can put a friggin' hat on somebody (anybody) long enough to keep dude upright.

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It was the 2nd tilt. Holcomb was 30/39, 413 yards, 5 tds and 2 ints in a 58-48 barn burner in week #11. Whatta rip...

 

I regret I didn't have a bottle of whiskey at hand to enhance the experience...

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20041128_CLE@CIN

[Johnny]

yeah i think he's worried bout himself .......frustrated.......spitting mad

 

cant blame a guy for wanting to be competitive but long run he might be better served to hurry up and wait.............holcomb increases his numbers, but not by what he's pipe dreaming for

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whether he's back or not i dont know.....

[Alaska Darin]

It was the 2nd tilt. Holcomb was 30/39, 413 yards, 5 tds and 2 ints in a 58-48 barn burner in week #11. Whatta rip...

 

I regret I didn't have a bottle of whiskey at hand to enhance the experience...

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20041128_CLE@CIN

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Garcia had started the previous week and gotten injured, if my memory serves me correctly.

[Campy]

Throw away opportunity for potential? Not this fan. Opportunity is fleeting, potential is omnipresent.

 

Win football games. Now.

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Well said.

 

It strikes me as odd, AKC, that everyone who dislikes this move seems to think that those who support it think JP should be chased out of town. I won't speak for anyone else, but nothing's farther from the truth for me. I think JP will be a good QB for us, but right now he's not getting it done. Not only has he not been improving, his performance has grown worse each week.

 

If the Bills can beat Miami, we're right there, possibly even in a tie for first. As the lightbulbs start turning on for JP, he'll be handed the reigns, but this week, today, let's beat Miami!

[Bill from NYC]

Well said.

 

It strikes me as odd, AKC, that everyone who dislikes this move seems to think that those who support it think JP should be chased out of town.  I won't speak for anyone else, but nothing's farther from the truth for me.  I think JP will be a good QB for us, but right now he's not getting it done.  Not only has he not been improving, his performance has grown worse each week.

 

If the Bills can beat Miami, we're right there, possibly even in a tie for first.  As the lightbulbs start turning on for JP, he'll be handed the reigns, but this week, today, let's beat Miami!

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It is clear to me that most of those who deplore this move are feeling this way due to leftover hatred for Bledsoe. JP was to be their shining star, their savior, brought to them by their icon, TD.

Agree?

[Dan]

It is clear to me that most of those who deplore this move are feeling this way due to leftover hatred for Bledsoe. JP was to be their shining star, their savior, brought to them by their icon, TD.

Agree?

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A false assumption. I was actually in favor of keeping Bledsoe here another year. But then again I thoguht Flutie was unfairly benched too. So I'm oblviously lower class citizenry.

[Campy]

It is clear to me that most of those who deplore this move are feeling this way due to leftover hatred for Bledsoe. JP was to be their shining star, their savior, brought to them by their icon, TD.

Agree?

468280[/snapback]

I pretty much said as much in a different thread.

 

But I'm a little confused. Before it was all DB's fault, but now it's everybody's but Losman's fault?

 

Too bad Bledsoe was chased out of town because it should be pretty obvious that JP needs more seasoning before being handed the reigns to the offense. Another year on the bench would have served him well IMO, and the "addition by subtraction" theory again fails miserably.

 

It's that old idiom we all heard has kids - Be careful what you wish for, it might come true. Well the vocal Bledsoe bashers got their wish but their knight in shining armor is a spastic kid wrapped in tin foil. He might make a great knight one day, but right now he's in over his head.

[Bill from NYC]

I pretty much said as much in a different thread.

 

But I'm a little confused.  Before it was all DB's fault, but now it's everybody's but Losman's fault?

 

Too bad Bledsoe was chased out of town because it should be pretty obvious that JP needs more seasoning before being handed the reigns to the offense.  Another year on the bench would have served him well IMO, and the "addition by subtraction" theory again fails miserably. 

 

It's that old idiom we all heard has kids - Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.  Well the vocal Bledsoe bashers got their wish but their knight in shining armor is a spastic kid wrapped in tin foil.  He might make a great knight one day, but right now he's in over his head.

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Bravo Campy! Well said.

[Campy]

A false assumption.  I was actually in favor of keeping Bledsoe here another year.  But then again I thoguht Flutie was unfairly benched too.  So I'm oblviously lower class citizenry.

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Right there with you Dan. I wanted them to go with Flutie, and I wanted them to keep Bledsoe this year. So you're on of the exceptions, but BillfromNYC has a valid point - the same posters who ripped on DB for everything also happen to be the largest critics of the benching. He threw out a blanket statement, and it doesn't apply to you, but there are many posters (dare I say the majority of those being critical) to whom it does.

[Dan]

And I totally agree. Sometimes you get what you wished for.

 

I was actually very much against the move to JP this season, for exactly this reason. But at some point this summer, I bought into it and decided that it may be for the best. If he has a decent year and we somehow manage to be 8-8. Then next year we're a playoff team. And that's what's sucking... is now we may never know if JP could have developed this year.

[Bill from NYC]

And I totally agree.  Sometimes you get what you wished for.

 

I was actually very much against the move to JP this season, for exactly this reason.  But at some point this summer, I bought into it and decided that it may be for the best.  If he has a decent year and we somehow manage to be 8-8.  Then next year we're a playoff team.  And that's what's sucking... is now we may never know if JP could have developed this year.

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In some way, we all bought into it. We are Bills Fans; we had no choice.

The fact is that to this point, he sucks. He was also running around the sidelines after being benched for his poor performance making a complete a-hole of himself.

TD gave up spots in round one, a 2nd and a 5th for this kid. On the field, he looks like ****. On the sidelines, he looks like a jackass. He needed to be humbled a bit, this is clear.

The kid MAY turn out to be good. I don't see this purported "cannon," but that isn't really so important. What I WOULD like to see is a professional looking qb against the dolphins.

Is that asking SO much?

[Johnny]

I pretty much said as much in a different thread.

 

But I'm a little confused.  Before it was all DB's fault, but now it's everybody's but Losman's fault?

 

Too bad Bledsoe was chased out of town because it should be pretty obvious that JP needs more seasoning before being handed the reigns to the offense.  Another year on the bench would have served him well IMO, and the "addition by subtraction" theory again fails miserably. 

 

It's that old idiom we all heard has kids - Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.  Well the vocal Bledsoe bashers got their wish but their knight in shining armor is a spastic kid wrapped in tin foil.  He might make a great knight one day, but right now he's in over his head.

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its the decision to let him go then to pull rug on Losman......you mess with the mind of a young qb that might not be able to get it back together, it happens in the nfl all the time as it seems successful qb's are usually handled in one manner and unsuccessful qb's are handled in this manner........the alternative is a 9 year journeyman bench warmer whom JP has the talent to exceed in one year given game time, game on the line, division rival game experience............so you concede a first round pick, a starting qb, a mini camp, a training camp, 4 pre season games, and 4 regular season games for the opportunity to nip miami which is already possible

[Bill from NYC]

its the decision to let him go then to pull rug on Losman......you mess with the mind of a young qb that might not be able to get it back together, it happens in the nfl all the time as it seems successful qb's are usually handled in one manner and unsuccessful qb's are handled in this manner........the alternative is a 9 year journeyman bench warmer whom JP has the talent to exceed in one year given game time, game on the line, division rival game experience............so you concede a first round pick, a starting qb, a mini camp, a training camp, 4 pre season games, and 4 regular season games for the opportunity to nip miami which is already possible

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As we speak, JP is probably the worst qb in the NFL. Holcombe isn't, and fans (myself included) are paying for tickets.

Do you discount this?

[Johnny]

As we speak, JP is probably the worst qb in the NFL. Holcombe isn't, and fans (myself included) are paying for tickets.

Do you discount this?

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no i think the new bills starting quarterback right now is better than the one in chicago, baltimore, new york jets, detroit, and san francisco's but he doesnt have the ability to execeed the ability of any other starting qb and in fact san francisco's and chicagos qb should pass him before long.......then when baltimores injured qb comes back he's better than two teams starting qb's jets and lions...........but thats his cap

[Bill from NYC]

no i think the new bills starting quarterback right now is better than the one in chicago, baltimore, new york jets, detroit, and san francisco's but he doesnt have the ability to execeed the ability of any other starting qb and in fact san francisco's and chicagos qb should pass him before long.......then when baltimores injured qb comes back he's better than two teams starting qb's jets and lions...........but thats his cap

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As we speak, Harrington is clearly superior to Losman. Both SF qbs are probably better as well, and Bollinger, as bad as he is, played better last week.

Things will certainly change, but JP needs a rest imo.

[Campy]

And I totally agree.  Sometimes you get what you wished for.

 

I was actually very much against the move to JP this season, for exactly this reason.  But at some point this summer, I bought into it and decided that it may be for the best.  If he has a decent year and we somehow manage to be 8-8.  Then next year we're a playoff team.  And that's what's sucking... is now we may never know if JP could have developed this year.

468310[/snapback]

Learning something that is complex (like how to be a starting QB in the NFL) can be, well, complex.

 

Having had experience training people (no, not how to be a starting QB in the NFL), I learned that everyone learns at a difference pace. Different methods may be used to reach people, and there may be times where the trainee tells the trainer "Yuh, uh-huh, I got it," and really believe they do understand it - But when pressed to explain it back to the trainer, the trainee is suddenly clueless. And it goes the other way too. I've had trainees tell me they don't get it, but when I ask them to explain what they do understand, it turns out they get the whole concept, they just didn't know they did.

 

I guess my point in all that is that there are as many ways to learn as there are people willing to learn. At this point in time, sitting may very well be the best thing for JP's development.

 

No one can say for certain how JP will develop, or whether the benching will harm or help his development, but the people making these kinds of decisions have the most to lose if their decisions don't work out. They also have a vested interest in doing what they feel is right for the team, contrary to what you, me, or any other chucklehead believes is right. Luckily for them, they also happen to be a bit closer to the situation than we are, and they know a lot more about what's going on than we do.

[Johnny]

As we speak, Harrington is clearly superior to Losman. Both SF qbs are probably better as well, and Bollinger, as bad as he is, played better last week.

Things will certainly change, but JP needs a rest imo.

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i was speaking of holcombe.....i said i dont discount losman as possibly the nfls worst right now

[stuckincincy]

Garcia had started the previous week and gotten injured, if my memory serves me correctly.

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Yeah, somebody broke his hip or something like that. Nobody on the Browns cared, since Garcia had already insulted everybody even remotely connected with the franchise.

[Johnny]

In some way, we all bought into it. We are Bills Fans; we had no choice.

The fact is that to this point, he sucks. He was also running around the sidelines after being benched for his poor performance making a complete a-hole of himself.

TD gave up spots in round one, a 2nd and a 5th for this kid. On the field, he looks like ****. On the sidelines, he looks like a jackass. He needed to be humbled a bit, this is clear.

The kid MAY turn out to be good. I don't see this purported "cannon," but that isn't really so important. What I WOULD like to see is a professional looking qb against the dolphins.

Is that asking SO much?

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if he did need to be humbled is the only way i see it as a good move........if he's too cocky for his own good and doing things without regard to his preparation then it is a good move......time out for jp .....2 games go sit in the corner

[Bill from NYC]

if he did need to be humbled is the only way i see it as a good move........if he's too cocky for his own good and doing things without regard to his preparation then it is a good move......time out for jp .....2 games go sit in the corner

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Thanks. This is what I am thinking.

Until he plays well, the Bills are not "his" team.

Don't worry fellow Bills Fan, he will get his chance.

[Johnny]

i was speaking of holcombe.....i said i dont discount losman as possibly the nfls worst right now

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harrington isnt as good as holcombe and probably never will be......they would start him then pull him out in favor of mike mcmahon this seems to have ruined his confidence........detroits weapons are vastly superior yet harrington cant get a qb rating to 60

[mead107]

In a Wildcard Playoff against the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2003, Kelly Holcomb threw for the third most passing yards in NFL postseason history.

 

A) His running game featured William Green, a career disappointment who has even today never run for 1000 yards in a season over his career.

 

B) He was throwing to a receiving corps of Kevin Johnson, Dennis Northcut, Quincy Morgan plus our very own Mark Campbell at TE.

 

C) He was protected by an offensive line consisting of Ryan Tucker, Paul Zakauskas, a twilight Dave Wohlabaugh, Ross Verba and Barry Stokes. (Lori- feel free to correct me here)

 

D) It was Holcomb’s first start in 14 games for the Browns.

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RJ had a good game when he played us , then we go and gige him 25 million to find out he sucks . holcome 1 good game BIG deal

[Alaska Darin]

RJ had a good game when he played us , then we go and gige him 25 million to find out he sucks . holcome 1 good game BIG deal

468396[/snapback]

Uh, Rob Johnson never played against us before he came here. In the game he "played" against us after leaving (when he was with Washington), he got hammered (including being sacked by about half the defense the first time he dropped back).

 

Oh, and Holcomb has had two GREAT games. Both of which were against teams that were significantly more talented than the team he was quarterbacking.

[AKC]

The only question that matters: Can Kelley Holcomb lead us to the Super Bowl this year? 

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You can't play in the Super Bowl if you don't make the Playoffs. We can't make the Playoffs if we throw away this pivotal game in our schedule under the excuse we're giving somebody "experience".

 

Win. Now.

[eball]

And...

 

E) Benching your starting QB will not magically establish the run. 

 

The issue isn't so much Holcomb's performance vs. Losman's, it's the piss-poor coaching this decision represents.

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thank you. it's time to lay the blame where it belongs -- at mularkey's and clements' feet.