This is how you build from within..

[Yobogoya!]

4 minutes ago, transient said:

Jim Schwartz is Cleveland's "3rd rate" DC... just sayin'

 

The Browns have great coaches on both of sides of the ball. I would take either- or even BOTH next year if available. 

 

It's a shame their roster is such a walking punchline. How they've won any games last few years is a mystery to me. 

[Mikie2times]

4 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

Instead of bringing in proven coordinators who might have their own concepts they want to run, you promote:

 - Ken Dorsey (fired after 1.5 seasons, fired against the next year by his next team)

 - Joe Brady (biggest thing going for him is he wasn't Ken Dorsey. 2nd biggest thing is he'll build the offense McD wants)

 - Bobby Babich (another puppet hire- who may or may not even perform his own duties right now)

 

Then you big contracts to:

 - T. Bernard (who alternates between injured and a liability)

 - M. Milano (same as Bernard, only he'll count 12mil dead cap next year to not play for us)

 - D. Knox (who you replaced on the depth chart right after signing, and is now a 8 digit/yr blocker TE)

 - G. Rousseau (who is earning a top-10 edge def contract but has never been mistaken for a top-10 player)

 - T. Johnson (was great during his first extension- now is mercifully out of the lineup, being outplayed by his backup)

 - C. Benford (deserved a raise as CB1, but extended after several injuries and is now a major question mark less than 1 season after signing for top-15 $)

 - K. Shakir (solid player, earned a contract but is making 13mil aav to be a role player and can't be the focal point of our passing attack)

 - E. Oliver (who might be a force if he could stay on the field and find some semblance of consistency)

 

And most of these guys have been good players, some have flashed to greatness- but there's an awful lot of money tied up in those names that you'd have to feel better about if it was going to a proven, ELITE difference maker (of which we have only Josh Allen and James Cook...)

 

I remember after the 2023 season it seemed like we were poised for a rebuild year- we were OVER the cap heading into the off-season, injuries had piled up, we had fired our OC mid-season and McDermott hadn't chosen a DC yet. Diggs was erratic and eventually bullied our front office into moving on from him, requiring us to absorb a MASSIVE $30mil cap hit for the year. Had no choice but to roster a (seemingly) washed Von Miller for the year due to the big cap hit. 

 

We ended up over-achieving last year, and made the AFCC game despite injuries and lack of top shelf talent and I think that's caused us to double and even triple down on the "process" instead of going full reset, dumping bad contracts, finding proven coordinators and trying to poise ourselves to better compete before Josh Allen turns 30 (not gonna happen now).

 

People were looking for a big move at the deadline this year, but the fact is we've spent too much money right up tot he cap AGAIN this year and the majority of our home-grown contracts aren't paying the dividends we need.

Best post I have read post Miami debacle. 

 

I was looking up little baller Beane and his background more (I shouldn't insult, he seems to be very well liked internally) . As many know he was mostly a cap / administrative guy for the bulk of his days at Carolina. His scouting knowledge was largely from Dave Gettleman who he worked for in Carolina and sort of took Beane under his wing. Gettleman was fired from Carolina and the Giants, but he is known for being a pretty solid scout. 

 

If you look at his picks

 

2013- Star Lotulelei (former Bill)

2014- Kelvin Benjamin (former Bill)

2015- Shaq Thompson (current Bill)

2016- Vernon Butler (former Bill)

2017- Christian McCaffrey 

2018- Saquon Barkley 

2019- Daniel Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Deandre Baker 

 

Nepotism runs very deep with this org. I wonder if part of our initial success with Beane was essentially having all of the information on player grades from the Carolina scouting department with him when he came here. Either way, Beane has spent far more time in administration and cap management than player evaluations. His scouting mentor was let go multiple times. That doesn't mean he was a bad scout, by all accounts he was difficult to work with, but the foundation of Beane's career isn't exactly rooted in historical success. In fact, McD, Beane, and Gettleman, all seemed to rise in reputation signifgantly from one season in Carolina in which they made that Super Bowl run. The fuel of that team was turnovers and Cam, and the demise was rapid. 

 

I give credit for the first build of this franchise. I grade the 2nd attempt much more harshly. To the extent that I question the competency.

 

One more fun nugget in all of this. Gettleman was a guy connected to Parcells and then Parcells to Beane. I guess it wasn't uncommon for Beane to seek insight from Parcells especially in the way the team was constructed. Just for one more nepotism cherry on the top, Parcells coached Kaiir Elams father, Abram. Parcells was known to mentor the family. So when you wonder how/why Elam became a Bill, I wouldn't discount the Pracells connection.  

 

 

 

 

[transient]

6 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

The Browns have great coaches on both of sides of the ball. I would take either- or even BOTH next year if available. 

 

It's a shame their roster is such a walking punchline. How they've won any games last few years is a mystery to me. 

I texted a Browns fan friend of mine recently that I'd rejoice if the Browns and Bills swapped coaching staffs even up... on the condition that the Browns kept their front office... he thought I was kidding.

[Yobogoya!]

11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Best post I have read post Miami debacle. 

 

I was looking up little baller Beane and his background more (I shouldn't insult, he seems to be very well liked internally) . As many know he was mostly a cap / administrative guy for the bulk of his days at Carolina. His scouting knowledge was largely from Dave Gettleman who he worked for in Carolina and sort of took Beane under his wing. Gettleman was fired from Carolina and the Giants, but he is known for being a pretty solid scout. 

 

If you look at his picks

 

2013- Star Lotulelei (former Bill)

2014- Kelvin Benjamin (former Bill)

2015- Shaq Thompson (current Bill)

2016- Vernon Butler (former Bill)

2017- Christian McCaffrey 

2018- Saquon Barkley 

2019- Daniel Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Deandre Baker 

 

Nepotism runs very deep with this org. I wonder if part of our initial success with Beane was essentially having all of the information on player grades from the Carolina scouting department with him when he came here. Either way, Beane has spent far more time in administration and cap management than player evaluations. His scouting mentor was let go multiple times. That doesn't mean he was a bad scout, by all accounts he was difficult to work with, but the foundation of Beane's career isn't exactly rooted in historical success. In fact, McD, Beane, and Gettleman, all seemed to rise in reputation signifgantly from one season in Carolina in which they made that Super Bowl run. The fuel of that team was turnovers and Cam, and the demise was rapid. 

 

I give credit for the first build of this franchise. I grade the 2nd attempt much more harshly. To the extent that I question the competency.

 

One more fun nugget in all of this. Gettleman was a guy connected to Parcells and then Parcells to Beane. I guess it wasn't uncommon for Beane to seek insight from Parcells especially in the way the team was constructed. Just for one more nepotism cherry on the top, Parcells coached Kaiir Elams father, Abram. Parcells was known to mentor the family. So when you wonder how/why Elam became a Bill, I wouldn't discount the Pracells connection. 

 

This actually explains a lot! Beane for his faults has navigated keeping us under the cap with these massive contracts very eloquently. No doubt he is better with the books than making the decision of who to give the money to. I'm not sure to what extent you can credit Gettleman's panthers scouts for Beane's early drafts here, but it's a VERY interesting point you make that the trio of McD, Beane and Gettleman all rode the coattails of that 2015 Panthers season -- and it's even more interesting when you realize they had the lowest strength of schedule in the league that year before the wheels came off and guys started to lose their jobs one by one in the seasons to follow. 

 

And yeah I mean you have to question Beane's competency in how he has built this team for the past several years. Even if you like Bernard and Milano at their best (and right now they both are playing like trash)- how much money can you strategically tie up in two undersized, oft-injured linebackers? I mean that's not a reasonable allocation of assets no matter how you slice it. 

 

The Gettleman connection is very interesting and probably oft-overlooked. His entire tenure with the Giants the fans and media railed about "outdated thinking" and "nepotism" - so it's very telling that those complaints come up in the Bills organization a lot these days. 

[dave mcbride]

6 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

Instead of bringing in proven coordinators who might have their own concepts they want to run, you promote:

 - Ken Dorsey (fired after 1.5 seasons, fired against the next year by his next team)

 - Joe Brady (biggest thing going for him is he wasn't Ken Dorsey. 2nd biggest thing is he'll build the offense McD wants)

 - Bobby Babich (another puppet hire- who may or may not even perform his own duties right now)

 

Then you big contracts to:

 - T. Bernard (who alternates between injured and a liability)

 - M. Milano (same as Bernard, only he'll count 12mil dead cap next year to not play for us)

 - D. Knox (who you replaced on the depth chart right after signing, and is now a 8 digit/yr blocker TE)

 - G. Rousseau (who is earning a top-10 edge def contract but has never been mistaken for a top-10 player)

 - T. Johnson (was great during his first extension- now is mercifully out of the lineup, being outplayed by his backup)

 - C. Benford (deserved a raise as CB1, but extended after several injuries and is now a major question mark less than 1 season after signing for top-15 $)

 - K. Shakir (solid player, earned a contract but is making 13mil aav to be a role player and can't be the focal point of our passing attack)

 - E. Oliver (who might be a force if he could stay on the field and find some semblance of consistency)

 

And most of these guys have been good players, some have flashed to greatness- but there's an awful lot of money tied up in those names that you'd have to feel better about if it was going to a proven, ELITE difference maker (of which we have only Josh Allen and James Cook...)

 

I remember after the 2023 season it seemed like we were poised for a rebuild year- we were OVER the cap heading into the off-season, injuries had piled up, we had fired our OC mid-season and McDermott hadn't chosen a DC yet. Diggs was erratic and eventually bullied our front office into moving on from him, requiring us to absorb a MASSIVE $30mil cap hit for the year. Had no choice but to roster a (seemingly) washed Von Miller for the year due to the big cap hit. 

 

We ended up over-achieving last year, and made the AFCC game despite injuries and lack of top shelf talent and I think that's caused us to double and even triple down on the "process" instead of going full reset, dumping bad contracts, finding proven coordinators and trying to poise ourselves to better compete before Josh Allen turns 30 (not gonna happen now).

 

People were looking for a big move at the deadline this year, but the fact is we've spent too much money right up tot he cap AGAIN this year and the majority of our home-grown contracts aren't paying the dividends we need.

Milano won't count against the cap next year. He's a free agent after this season because his contract was restructured to a one-year deal (2025 only). 

[Yobogoya!]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Milano won't count against the cap next year. He's a free agent after this season because his contract was restructured to a one-year deal (2025 only). 

 

His 11mil is on the books for next year as a "void year" according to spotrac. 

 

"Restructure" is usually just another word for "kicking the can" on the books. 

[dave mcbride]

47 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Best post I have read post Miami debacle. 

 

I was looking up little baller Beane and his background more (I shouldn't insult, he seems to be very well liked internally) . As many know he was mostly a cap / administrative guy for the bulk of his days at Carolina. His scouting knowledge was largely from Dave Gettleman who he worked for in Carolina and sort of took Beane under his wing. Gettleman was fired from Carolina and the Giants, but he is known for being a pretty solid scout. 

 

If you look at his picks

 

2013- Star Lotulelei (former Bill)

2014- Kelvin Benjamin (former Bill)

2015- Shaq Thompson (current Bill)

2016- Vernon Butler (former Bill)

2017- Christian McCaffrey 

2018- Saquon Barkley 

2019- Daniel Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Deandre Baker 

 

Nepotism runs very deep with this org. I wonder if part of our initial success with Beane was essentially having all of the information on player grades from the Carolina scouting department with him when he came here. Either way, Beane has spent far more time in administration and cap management than player evaluations. His scouting mentor was let go multiple times. That doesn't mean he was a bad scout, by all accounts he was difficult to work with, but the foundation of Beane's career isn't exactly rooted in historical success. In fact, McD, Beane, and Gettleman, all seemed to rise in reputation signifgantly from one season in Carolina in which they made that Super Bowl run. The fuel of that team was turnovers and Cam, and the demise was rapid. 

 

I give credit for the first build of this franchise. I grade the 2nd attempt much more harshly. To the extent that I question the competency.

 

One more fun nugget in all of this. Gettleman was a guy connected to Parcells and then Parcells to Beane. I guess it wasn't uncommon for Beane to seek insight from Parcells especially in the way the team was constructed. Just for one more nepotism cherry on the top, Parcells coached Kaiir Elams father, Abram. Parcells was known to mentor the family. So when you wonder how/why Elam became a Bill, I wouldn't discount the Pracells connection.  

 

 

 

 

Good post, but the Panthers were really good in 2013 too, going 12-4 and leading the league in sacks. Their D finished second overall in both points allowed and yards given up. 

4 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

His 11mil is on the books for next year as a "void year" according to spotrac. 

 

"Restructure" is usually just another word for "kicking the can" on the books. 

Hmm ... how does this actually work?

 

EDIT: I looked it up and now see. I stand corrected. He's on the books for next season.

Edited 2 hours ago by dave mcbride

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Hmm ... how does this actually work?

 

To the best of my knowledge, a "void year" is a built in "fake" year where the player is on the books, but not on the roster. 

 

If you look, Bosa is on the books for 7 mil next year as a void year, even tho he signed a "1 year deal" with the Bills. 

 

It's all smoke and mirrors, basically. But the dead cap hit is very, very real. 

[QCity]

6 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

Instead of bringing in proven coordinators who might have their own concepts they want to run, you promote:

 - Ken Dorsey (fired after 1.5 seasons, fired against the next year by his next team)

 - Joe Brady (biggest thing going for him is he wasn't Ken Dorsey. 2nd biggest thing is he'll build the offense McD wants)

 - Bobby Babich (another puppet hire- who may or may not even perform his own duties right now)

 

Then you big contracts to:

 - T. Bernard (who alternates between injured and a liability)

 - M. Milano (same as Bernard, only he'll count 12mil dead cap next year to not play for us)

 - D. Knox (who you replaced on the depth chart right after signing, and is now a 8 digit/yr blocker TE)

 - G. Rousseau (who is earning a top-10 edge def contract but has never been mistaken for a top-10 player)

 - T. Johnson (was great during his first extension- now is mercifully out of the lineup, being outplayed by his backup)

 - C. Benford (deserved a raise as CB1, but extended after several injuries and is now a major question mark less than 1 season after signing for top-15 $)

 - K. Shakir (solid player, earned a contract but is making 13mil aav to be a role player and can't be the focal point of our passing attack)

 - E. Oliver (who might be a force if he could stay on the field and find some semblance of consistency)

 

And most of these guys have been good players, some have flashed to greatness- but there's an awful lot of money tied up in those names that you'd have to feel better about if it was going to a proven, ELITE difference maker (of which we have only Josh Allen and James Cook...)

 

I remember after the 2023 season it seemed like we were poised for a rebuild year- we were OVER the cap heading into the off-season, injuries had piled up, we had fired our OC mid-season and McDermott hadn't chosen a DC yet. Diggs was erratic and eventually bullied our front office into moving on from him, requiring us to absorb a MASSIVE $30mil cap hit for the year. Had no choice but to roster a (seemingly) washed Von Miller for the year due to the big cap hit. 

 

We ended up over-achieving last year, and made the AFCC game despite injuries and lack of top shelf talent and I think that's caused us to double and even triple down on the "process" instead of going full reset, dumping bad contracts, finding proven coordinators and trying to poise ourselves to better compete before Josh Allen turns 30 (not gonna happen now).

 

People were looking for a big move at the deadline this year, but the fact is we've spent too much money right up tot he cap AGAIN this year and the majority of our home-grown contracts aren't paying the dividends we need.

 

The head coach and GM are insular and really don't like leaving their comfort zone. We've all seen this with their penchant for known quantities aka the Carolina player pipeline, and that school of though applies to coaches as well. Promote from within - it's the safe route, but sometimes you need to make a bold move.

 

"Draft, develop, and re-sign" sounds like a great strategy, it really does. But what happens if you draft too many mediocre players that don't develop?

[Mikie2times]

One last fun Beane nugget. His first internship with the Carolina Panthers? Public Relations.