50 year mortgages

[milfandcookies]

6 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

1) every mortgage in the last 3 years was made thinking it would be refi'd later

 

2) I'm not saying these are "great" loans...they are effectively Leases where we build Equity at a slower rate

 

3)  There are other factors at play in Real Estate, like location, property type, etc

 

These are Biden-covered glasses comments, and again operating in a vacuum

 

You can't just look at "Mortgage Rates" without looking at the Price function.  The fact is when rates were very high, prices were much, much lower than they are today (obviously adjusted for inflation)

 

The cost of building materials SKY-ROCKETED for 3 years, tariffs have had very little to do with it.  Inventories generally run 3-6 months so those tariff increases would have just started hitting.  

 

You are correct that the problem is price.  

makes no sense broseph

 

if price is the problem then you should be strongly against this. It will make prices even higher as more people foolishly stretch their budgets in the home buyer market for these lifetime loans 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by milfandcookies

[teef]

16 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

I think you answered many of your own questions by asking other questions, but I'll try here.  And I'll say, I haven't seen a payment schedule for a 50 year proposed mortgage in a while...

 

You wouldn't build a ton of Equity right away due to Mortgage payment tables, true, but you would build "some" as opposed to zero.  I assume generally a mortgage payment of 50 years would resemble what a rent payment would be, so Cash Flow is about the same.

 

If you're buying new construction, let's hope you wouldn't face major capital improvements like furnace, roof and hot water for some time...property and school taxes would necessarily be wrapped up in any rent payment anyway.  

 

But you WILL be building Equity and after 20 years of "renting" you'd be glad you did...notice too the Trump admin is looking to bring down the frictional costs associated with buying/selling a house, etc

 

So if you bought a $400,000 house with 5% down ($20,000), I'd say after 7 years you'd have $52,000 of Equity built up (I used 7/50 years = 14% of the term and discounted that pretty heavily to an 8% Equity build, so $400,000 * 0.08 = $32,000 addt'l Equity

 

So if you sold and moved, you'd get your deposit back and maybe make a little bit...none of this takes into account that the asset is likely a better asset in a better place, on average, than a rental property.

i think the idea that owning with give you the same cash flow as renting isn't exactly true.  with a 50 yr mortgage it will be closer, but there's always unexpected costs to owning a home.  on top of that, i can't imagine many 50 year mortgages will be new build.  buying a new home on a 50 year mortgage just shows that you can't afford the home.  that the entire point of a 50 year mortgage...it allows you to buy something that you can't afford in the first place, so not a good idea.

 

next is the building of equity.  how long will it actually start to take to build any real equity on a 50 year mortgage?  20-25 years?  how much have you paid over interest in that time.  guess what?  it's far more that any equity you walk away with.  i could put that money to far better use that that small amount of equity i've built.  i was paying large additions to principal on my mortgage, so i refinanced a few years ago at 10 years at 3.125.  i'll be saving 70-75k in interest alone.  there's so much money invested into a 50 year mortgage that you'll just never get back.  it's an awful thing to propose.

 

this is nothing but a cover up for high housing costs.  it doesn't actually fix anything, and it could lead to high home prices in the future from what i'm reading.  quite frankly the idea is insulting, and the back lash is appropriate.  it's just a bad idea.  let's not even get into the idea of a 15 year car load.  i'd like my country not to turn into a giant rent a center.  i just don't know how anyone at all thinks these are good ideas.

[SectionC3]

17 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

1) every mortgage in the last 3 years was made thinking it would be refi'd later

 

2) I'm not saying these are "great" loans...they are effectively Leases where we build Equity at a slower rate

 

3)  There are other factors at play in Real Estate, like location, property type, etc

 

These are Biden-covered glasses comments, and again operating in a vacuum

 

You can't just look at "Mortgage Rates" without looking at the Price function.  The fact is when rates were very high, prices were much, much lower than they are today (obviously adjusted for inflation)

 

The cost of building materials SKY-ROCKETED for 3 years, tariffs have had very little to do with it.  Inventories generally run 3-6 months so those tariff increases would have just started hitting.  

 

You are correct that the problem is price.  

 

I agree with a lot of this, except for blaming it solely on Biden.  If we want to talk seriously for a moment, both Trump and Biden are responsible for inflation.  Pent up demand (Trump), low supply (Trump, and later Biden), and then free money (Trump) led to a problem that was not adequately resolved (Biden) and arguably compounded with additional free money (Biden).  This idiotic talk of more free money (Trump) isn't going to help anything, and trying to address the rate issue (now Trump, due to economic factors of mutual responsibility) through a friggin 50-year mortgage isn't going to solve any of the issues that you raised. 

 

[OrangeBills]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i think the idea that owning with give you the same cash flow as renting isn't exactly true.  with a 50 yr mortgage it will be closer, but there's always unexpected costs to owning a home.  on top of that, i can't imagine many 50 year mortgages will be new build.  buying a new home on a 50 year mortgage just shows that you can't afford the home.  that the entire point of a 50 year mortgage...it allows you to buy something that you can't afford in the first place, so not a good idea.

 

next is the building of equity.  how long will it actually start to take to build any real equity on a 50 year mortgage?  20-25 years?  how much have you paid over interest in that time.  guess what?  it's far more that any equity you walk away with.  i could put that money to far better use that that small amount of equity i've built.  i was paying large additions to principal on my mortgage, so i refinanced a few years ago at 10 years at 3.125.  i'll be saving 70-75k in interest alone.  there's so much money invested into a 50 year mortgage that you'll just never get back.  it's an awful thing to propose.

 

this is nothing but a cover up for high housing costs.  it doesn't actually fix anything, and it could lead to high home prices in the future from what i'm reading.  quite frankly the idea is insulting, and the back lash is appropriate.  it's just a bad idea.  let's not even get into the idea of a 15 year car load.  i'd like my country not to turn into a giant rent a center.  i just don't know how anyone at all thinks these are good ideas.

no one is saying this is a “good idea”

 

it’s a bad idea in response to many, many bad decisions by the prior administration that have led to higher prices and higher rates

 

The cash flows at the borrower level would be about even (mortgage payment vs lease) only a portion (small up front to be sure) would go to Equity (say $500 of $2,000 to start, still better than tossing that money away in a lease, but doesn’t sound like people are gonna agree with this cause they hate the Trump admin)

 

that’s fine, but there is just no question that the CPI supports the idea that all inflation is just Biden’s fault and here’s why we’re here talking about 50 year mortgages

 

the WSJ ran an article assessing this about the why I did yesterdays only they assume a 20% down payment on a $400k house which is dumb cause if you have $80,000 you’re not doing this but anyways

 

i wouldnt do it, I did a 25 year, but here’s where we are

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

no one is saying this is a “good idea”

 

it’s a bad idea in response to many, many bad decisions by the prior administration that have led to higher prices and higher rates

 

The cash flows at the borrower level would be about even (mortgage payment vs lease) only a portion (small up front to be sure) would go to Equity (say $500 of $2,000 to start, still better than tossing that money away in a lease, but doesn’t sound like people are gonna agree with this cause they hate the Trump admin)

 

that’s fine, but there is just no question that the CPI supports the idea that all inflation is just Biden’s fault and here’s why we’re here talking about 50 year mortgages

 

the WSJ ran an article assessing this about the why I did yesterdays only they assume a 20% down payment on a $400k house which is dumb cause if you have $80,000 you’re not doing this but anyways

 

i wouldnt do it, I did a 25 year, but here’s where we are

 

I think the unique aspect of the inflation under Biden was the standard government money giveaways were accompanied by COVID era shutdowns of the economy. Which meant that at the same time demand was being juiced up by floods of money into the hands of consumers along with policies like eviction moratoriums and suspension of payments on things like student loans which put even more discretionary income into the hands of consumers. At the same time the supply of goods and services was being constrained by shutdown policies. So behold, demand outran supply and prices rose!  

 

If anyone isn't paying attention Trump's inflation is going to be something different. That plan is to aggressively cut rates. Throw out the Feds 2% inflation target policy. Create an economic boom in demand and supply by opening up the money supply flow in an attempt to grow significantly the economy at a higher than the rate of inflation all this is going to create.

 

Where the idea of on-shoring a lot of lost production comes in is that in recent cycles all that benefit of increased demand for production was provided by corporations producing goods in other countries and the moving of production out of the US. All the benefit went to other countries. With domestic production, at somewhat higher costs and consumer prices, the benefit of the supply side is kept in the country. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[teef]

6 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

no one is saying this is a “good idea”

 

it’s a bad idea in response to many, many bad decisions by the prior administration that have led to higher prices and higher rates

 

The cash flows at the borrower level would be about even (mortgage payment vs lease) only a portion (small up front to be sure) would go to Equity (say $500 of $2,000 to start, still better than tossing that money away in a lease, but doesn’t sound like people are gonna agree with this cause they hate the Trump admin)

 

that’s fine, but there is just no question that the CPI supports the idea that all inflation is just Biden’s fault and here’s why we’re here talking about 50 year mortgages

 

the WSJ ran an article assessing this about the why I did yesterdays only they assume a 20% down payment on a $400k house which is dumb cause if you have $80,000 you’re not doing this but anyways

 

i wouldnt do it, I did a 25 year, but here’s where we are

 

place blame all you want.  people aren't rejecting this because of the trump administration.  they're rejecting it because it's a terrible idea and doesn't fix anything about the housing market.  the only way i could see this being appealing to anyone is if they absolutely need to get into a house, then talking about being a slave to your property.  i'd much rather make my money work for me rather than give to to the bank.  and what about the 15 year car terms?  a 15 year loan for a car is an even more insane idea that the 50 year mortgage.  

 

 

[T master]

On 11/9/2025 at 7:41 AM, milfandcookies said:

The Trump administration is working on a plan to introduce this.
 

Who benefits from 50 year mortgage?

The banks that's who !! Mortgages are way out of sorts they need to stop the bidding wars on property and bring it back to reasonable prices no one can really afford these kind of notes !

 

I was talking to a friend just 2 days ago he's renting a house in a packed sub division I believe a 3-2 probably 2100 Sq Ft. and paying $3k a month WTF can afford that kind of cash not including car payments and all the regular bills .

 

I feel the price increase for mortgages is inapt to blame by the greedy real estate people ! Just because of supply and demand they continually allow clients to bid against each other driving the prices higher & higher until you can no longer afford a home ridiculous !! 

 

I remember when selling a house they wouldn't let me borrow money from my boss of over 15 years for a down payment and they said it was because of the realtors ethics well that went straight other ***** when they can make more cash in allowing bidding wars between customers but that's okay because they are the ones that profit from that ... 

 

Quite possibly the only reason why Trump is doing this is because he knows with more time it will lesson the payment amounts per month giving younger folks a better chance to own a home because it's just out of control .

Edited 3 hours ago by T master

[milfandcookies]

19 minutes ago, T master said:

The banks that's who !! Mortgages are way out of sorts they need to stop the bidding wars on property and bring it back to reasonable prices no one can really afford these kind of notes !

 

I was talking to a friend just 2 days ago he's renting a house in a packed sub division I believe a 3-2 probably 2100 Sq Ft. and paying $3k a month WTF can afford that kind of cash not including car payments and all the regular bills .

 

I feel the price increase for mortgages is inapt to blame by the greedy real estate people ! Just because of supply and demand they continually allow clients to bid against each other driving the prices higher & higher until you can no longer afford a home ridiculous !! 

 

I remember when selling a house they wouldn't let me borrow money from my boss of over 15 years for a down payment and they said it was because of the realtors ethics well that went straight other ***** when they can make more cash in allowing bidding wars between customers but that's okay because they are the ones that profit from that ... 

 

Quite possibly the only reason why Trump is doing this is because he knows with more time it will lesson the payment amounts per month giving younger folks a better chance to own a home because it's just out of control .

so true on the greedy A banks and agents

 

the Airbnb thing has been real bad for home buyers as well tho

 

in certain parts of Buffalo some homes that would be great for local families go well over listing price, cash, to “investors” from outside cities who put it on Airbnb.

 

And this is just Buffalo! I can’t imagine what that’s done to actual vacation states like Florida, California, etc

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by milfandcookies

[Wolfgang]

Remove millions of illegals, and property values drop precipitously...

 

Problem solved...

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

55 minutes ago, milfandcookies said:

so true on the greedy A banks and agents

 

the Airbnb thing has been real bad for home buyers as well tho

 

in certain parts of Buffalo some homes that would be great for local families go well over listing price, cash, to “investors” from outside cities who put it on Airbnb.

 

And this is just Buffalo! I can’t imagine what that’s done to actual vacation states like Florida, California, etc

 

 

Well, if you're going down this road, isn't it really the greedy homeowner who is the problem?  He/she could certainly direct the property be sold at a certain level that would encourage homeownership for local families, yes?

 

[teef]

26 minutes ago, Wolfgang said:

Remove millions of illegals, and property values drop precipitously...

 

Problem solved...

just post videos.

[milfandcookies]

14 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Well, if you're going down this road, isn't it really the greedy homeowner who is the problem?  He/she could certainly direct the property be sold at a certain level that would encourage homeownership for local families, yes?

 

No I dont think so. Only sold my home once in my life but I know I was not allowed to consider the demographics of the purchaser, if fact it was not shared with me until after I accepted their offer. Luckily it was someone local 

 

 

[Pokebball]

14 hours ago, milfandcookies said:

makes no sense broseph

 

if price is the problem then you should be strongly against this. It will make prices even higher as more people foolishly stretch their budgets in the home buyer market for these lifetime loans 

 

 

Not sure price is the problem. Price is the reality. Simple supple vs demand.

 

You want to bring prices down, build more houses.

[T master]

1 hour ago, milfandcookies said:

so true on the greedy A banks and agents

 

the Airbnb thing has been real bad for home buyers as well tho

 

in certain parts of Buffalo some homes that would be great for local families go well over listing price, cash, to “investors” from outside cities who put it on Airbnb.

 

And this is just Buffalo! I can’t imagine what that’s done to actual vacation states like Florida, California, etc

 

 

Nashville has gotten ridiculous because they are the IT city now & they have a really good tax structure too, as I said a friend is paying $3k a month to rent a 3 bed 2 bath home, a 1 bedroom apt. goes from $1800 a month and just dow the street from my home a builder bought some farm land and built homes that are 2100 Sq ft and up that START at $650 K just totally a greed driven thing .

 

I have no idea how a young couple with possible college debt, car payments and possible young children would eve be able to incur that kind of debt there's just no way wages have not grown as fast as the greed or as they say the "Supply & Demand" has dictated those prices .

Edited 57 minutes ago by T master

[Wolfgang]

I doubt that proposing a 50 year mortgage is just about 50 year mortgages...

 

This is also about introducing a 50 year Treasury bond...

40 minutes ago, teef said:

just post videos.

 

 

 

No...