B-Man Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Trump was charged with falsification of business records. That was stepped up from a misdemeanor to a felony based on the idea that it was committed to conceal another crime. And THAT crime has not been specified. As JD has so clearly laid out. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 7 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Well then MSNBC is even dumber than people think since the crimes are all in the charging documents for anyone to read. No, we definitely think they are as dumb as it gets 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 26 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: And this reasoning is why you, posting on a message board read by 12 people that are ostensibly Buffalo Bills fans, are right and so many others of prominence are wrong. That’s all you had to say. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/05/gaping-hole-trump-indictment-00090701 This is where Bragg’s indictment has done a disservice to the public and to Trump himself. Beyond a general reference to a violation of “election laws” and a passing reference to taxes, the indictment and statement of facts do not specify what “other crimes” Trump allegedly intended to commit. Another guy who is not up to your level of legal analysis. I’m not claiming they are wrong. It’s a matter of opinion built on imperfect information. I believe it is clear what other crimes the prosecution is looking to for the step up. It’s fairly well documented in their charging documents. I believe the weakness of the case is whether or not they successfully convinced the jury of any of the step up crimes. I don’t think they hit it as hard as they should have, leaving doubt about whether not they met their burden. Edited May 21 by ChiGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 13 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I’m not claiming they are wrong. It’s a matter of opinion built on imperfect information. I believe it is clear what other crimes the prosecution is looking to for the step up. It’s fairly well documented in their charging documents. I believe the weakness of the case is whether or not they successfully convinced the jury of any of the step up crimes. I don’t think they hit it as hard as they should have, leaving doubt about whether not they met their burden. You’ve gone from “the crimes are all in the charging documents for anyone to read” to “it’s a matter of opinion built on imperfect information”. Hoo boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 32 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: You’ve gone from “the crimes are all in the charging documents for anyone to read” to “it’s a matter of opinion built on imperfect information”. Hoo boy. Nope. Not at all. The crimes are all there in the charging documents. Whether or not the prosecution has proved them is a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Just now, ChiGoose said: Nope. Not at all. The crimes are all there in the charging documents. Whether or not the prosecution has proved them is a matter of opinion. Maybe we can try one more time and you can attempt to answer succinctly: why are there so many accomplished legal people declaring that no “other crime” has been specified in the charging documents? There’s no need to discuss the actual trial as you have done ad nauseam or pretend you have a higher knowledge of NYS law than any of these people 🙄. Let’s just stay with the charging documents you started with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 7 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: Maybe we can try one more time and you can attempt to answer succinctly: why are there so many accomplished legal people declaring that no “other crime” has been specified in the charging documents? There’s no need to discuss the actual trial as you have done ad nauseam or pretend you have a higher knowledge of NYS law than any of these people 🙄. Let’s just stay with the charging documents you started with. Maybe they haven’t read them. Maybe they are relying on how things work in jurisdictions other than NY. Maybe they know it’ll get them more attention. Maybe they are wishcasting. Why don’t you call them up and ask if the prosecution’s allegations qualify for violation of federal election crimes or tax crimes? The documents clearly identify the charges and also provide the elements for several other crimes. You don’t have to believe that the prosecution is correct to acknowledge that they have documented their case. There are also plenty of legal experts who don’t fall into the bucket that seems so convenient for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Maybe they haven’t read them. Maybe they are relying on how things work in jurisdictions other than NY. Maybe they know it’ll get them more attention. Maybe they are wishcasting. This is hilarious. And desperate. Nice work counselor. Good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 7 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: This is hilarious. And desperate. Nice work counselor. Good lord. Let me ask you something, and I encourage you to answer honestly. If I posted a long list of legal experts who agreed with me or were even more convinced of Trump’s guilt, would you provide evidence as to why they were wrong? Would you spend time explaining why they are all wrong? Or are you just a hack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Let me ask you something, and I encourage you to answer honestly. If I posted a long list of legal experts who agreed with me or were even more convinced of Trump’s guilt, would you provide evidence as to why they were wrong? Would you spend time explaining why they are all wrong? Or are you just a hack? I guess it would depend on whether or not I made a claim, as you did, that is refuted by a spectrum of accomplished individuals. You did a lot of typing today to end up at “maybe they didn’t read, maybe they are wish-casting”. One of us is most certainly a hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 4 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: I guess it would depend on whether or not I made a claim, as you did, that is refuted by a spectrum of accomplished individuals. You did a lot of typing today to end up at “maybe they didn’t read, maybe they are wish-casting”. One of us is most certainly a hack. You put forth people you listen to asking me why they believe what they do even though I don’t have any knowledge of them. I did my best to explain the nuances of this case and why people disagree. You think this makes me a hack. I think it’s pretty clear that you’re not acting in good faith and are just searching for whatever confirms your priors. That, or your just incapable of understanding anything that isn’t black and white. I agree that you are most certainly a hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Just now, ChiGoose said: You put forth people you listen to asking me why they believe what they do even though I don’t have any knowledge of them. I did my best to explain the nuances of this case and why people disagree. You think this makes me a hack. I think it’s pretty clear that you’re not acting in good faith and are just searching for whatever confirms your priors. That, or your just incapable of understanding anything that isn’t black and white. I agree that you are most certainly a hack. I have no priors on the matter. Whatever happens happens. You made a claim and I see and hear many people with legal expertise, some of them no fans of Trump or non-liberals in general, that refute your claim. I was curious as to how you believe yourself correct and these other accomplished people wrong. Your final say was “well maybe they haven’t read the documents”. Embarrassing. You have shown yourself to be full of hot air in the past and have done so again tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Important Thread: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 6 hours ago, JDHillFan said: I have no priors on the matter. Whatever happens happens. You made a claim and I see and hear many people with legal expertise, some of them no fans of Trump or non-liberals in general, that refute your claim. I was curious as to how you believe yourself correct and these other accomplished people wrong. Your final say was “well maybe they haven’t read the documents”. Embarrassing. You have shown yourself to be full of hot air in the past and have done so again tonight. Wait, so you mean to tell me that the King constantly spins, hand waves and bloviates via tortured legalese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 (edited) Calling The King and Finding Q.....come on down!! You're the next contestants on Get Trump No Matter What! Any lawyer defending this prosecution in NY is ethically challenged him/herself. I don't care who you are or what your politics are. If you think this case, with all its jerry-rigging to concoct a charge thru willful misapplications of statutes and reliance on an admitted perjurer and thief like Cohen -- including giving him a pass on felonies for his testimony -- is a proper exercise of the the criminal justice process ... Simply because it is Trump ... Then your ethics are lower than sewage. CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig -- faithful Democrat partisan -- has it exactly correct: This case would never have been brought against anyone not named Donald Trump. It is right out of the Stalinist playbook. If you can't bring yourself to condemn what Bragg has done, you're a disgrace to the profession. Edited May 21 by BillsFanNC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Alvin Bragg's Case in Shambles After Michael Cohen Admits to Stealing From Trump and More It's not quite time for closing arguments in the New York-based criminal case against Donald Trump, but the crescendo is building. On Monday, disgraced felon Michael Cohen retook the stand as he continued to serve as the prosecution's star witness. The problem? Cohen is a proven liar and total s*****g, and Trump's legal team got him to admit that on the stand in no uncertain terms. In a moment that set the internet on fire, Cohen admitted to stealing tens of thousands of dollars from the Trump organization. I can't claim to know what the jury will ultimately decide in this case given how absurd and overly-politicized it is. I can say with some certainty that in any normal situation, having the prosecution's star witness admit to being a dishonest thief would be a death blow to the case's credibility. Remember, everything revolves around Cohen, who is now claiming to be a patsy who was just doing the bidding of Trump in cutting the check to Stormy Daniels. That wasn't the only gut punch to Bragg's prosecution, though. Trump's legal team later highlighted that Cohen had repeatedly told the press and others that Trump did not know about the payment. It wasn't until after the FBI raided Cohen's home and office that he changed his story. Again, the lack of credibility of Bragg's star witness is simply astonishing. https://redstate.com/bonchie/2024/05/20/michael-cohen-admits-on-the-witness-stand-to-stealing-money-from-trump-as-case-gets-more-absurd-n2174413#google_vignette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Hahahahahahaha. The Trump trial was supposed to be such a big deal, but somehow "a strange sense of anticlimax hangs over the whole affair." As Michelle Goldberg puts it, in "The Trump Trial’s Great Anticlimax" (NYT). In a recent Yahoo News/YouGov poll, only 16 percent of respondents said they were following the trial very closely, with an additional 32 percent following it “somewhat” closely. “Those numbers rank as some of the lowest for any recent news event,” wrote Yahoo News’s Andrew Romano. When people were asked how the trial made them feel, the most common response was “bored.”... A hopeful possibility... is that a guilty verdict will come as a shock to many Americans who have checked out of the news cycle, perhaps giving them pause about putting a criminal in the White House. I wouldn’t count on it, though. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/20/opinion/columnists/trump-trial-apathy.html?smid=url-share . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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