FireChans Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 So I was looking at the Browns Spotrac page at Amari Cooper in particular. Entering the last year of his deal, with the Jeudy signing, maybe he could be had. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/amari-cooper-16728/ He currently has two void years after this year for around a $10M combined cap hit in 2025 and 2026. His cap hit this season is $23M. If he's traded today, it looks like the Browns would save 12M in salary and take on a dead cap hit of 11M. But what happens to that extra 10M in void years? Would the team trading for him have to put that on their books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rew Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, FireChans said: So I was looking at the Browns Spotrac page at Amari Cooper in particular. Entering the last year of his deal, with the Jeudy signing, maybe he could be had. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/amari-cooper-16728/ He currently has two void years after this year for around a $10M combined cap hit in 2025 and 2026. His cap hit this season is $23M. If he's traded today, it looks like the Browns would save 12M in salary and take on a dead cap hit of 11M. But what happens to that extra 10M in void years? Would the team trading for him have to put that on their books? Void year money is already paid (as a singing bonus). It stays with current team and probably accelerates. There are variations on signing bonus handling in contracts, but I believe this would be the typical outcome. Edited March 19 by Rew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cle23 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Yeah, if your numbers are correct, the net would be $2M in savings with tbe accelerated cap hit, so it wouldn't make any sense to dump Cooper for so little savings. I think the extension was for the future, to ensure some continuity. I doubt Cooper is back next year unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 in this particular case...amari coopers current dead money is the total of both voidable years $7.552 & $3.776 = $11.328 thats all of it its not $11.328 PLUS another $11.328 if they cut him today...they save $12.448 and the voidable years are gone ($23.776 cap, minus $11.328 dead = $12.448 sav) would not be shocked if they parted ways 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 6 minutes ago, papazoid said: in this particular case...amari coopers current dead money is the total of both voidable years $7.552 & $3.776 = $11.328 thats all of it its not $11.328 PLUS another $11.328 if they cut him today...they save $12.448 and the voidable years are gone ($23.776 cap, minus $11.328 dead = $12.448 sav) would not be shocked if they parted ways So why is his cap hit this year $23M if he has two years of voidable cap hit? That’s the part I do not understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 45 minutes ago, FireChans said: So why is his cap hit this year $23M if he has two years of voidable cap hit? That’s the part I do not understand. because they played accounting games in 2022 by converting $18.88M to signing bonus, adding two void years pushing some into future. the nfl is a hard cap, eventually you gotta pay the bill......but they allow you to push some of that into future dummy voidable years. he signed a 5 year / $100 mil deal in 2020. if you add up his cap hits 2020-2024 plus the 2 void years it almost adds up his cap hit in 2022 was only $4.9 $18.8 divided by 5 years is $3.776....that $11.328 is 3 times $3.776 if they keep him ...his 2024 cap is $23.776 AND they will incur a 2x$3.776= $7.552 DEAD CAP in 2025 Dallas probably ate some dead cap when they traded him in 2022 the original 5/$100 only had $60 guaranteed....thats all been paid likely none of his 2024 current $23.76 cap has guaranteed money ($20 & $3.76) Edited March 19 by papazoid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rew Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, papazoid said: because they played accounting games in 2022 by converting $18.88M to signing bonus, adding two void years pushing some into future. the nfl is a hard cap, eventually you gotta pay the bill......but they allow you to push some of that into future dummy voidable years. he signed a 5 year / $100 mil deal in 2020. if you add up his cap hits 2020-2024 plus the 2 void years it almost adds up his cap hit in 2022 was only $4.9 $18.8 divided by 5 years is $3.776....that $11.328 is 3 times $3.776 if they keep him ...his 2024 cap is $23.776 AND they will incur a 2x$3.776= $7.552 DEAD CAP in 2025 Dallas probably ate some dead cap when they traded him in 2022 the original 5/$100 only had $60 guaranteed....thats all been paid likely none of his 2024 current $23.76 cap has guaranteed money ($20 & $3.76) Looks mostly right to me. Nits would be that he's had $80M paid out already. This year (2024) the 23.7M cap is $20M of "new money" and $3.76M from 2022 signing bonus. Like you said, if they cut they owe cap for this year's 3.76 + the next 2 years. The item that doesn't seem to show up is what happened to the $6M of signing bonus that the boys paid but is never shown on public sites ($2M x 3 years). They incurred this as deadcap in 2022 after trading Amari, but it disappears for some reason. Sportac also is confusing that is shows the cap hit of 7.55 in 2025 as well as 3.76 in 2026. This is wrong. It's technically what you stated, 3.76 in each year. However, if he is not extended but finishes his contract it would all be incurred in 2025 (7.55). Edit - To be more complete, after restructure it looks like this: Cash: - 2020 $20M - 2021 $20M - 2022 $20M - 2023 $20M - 2024 $20M Cap (Boys): - 2020 $12M - 2021 $22M - 2022 $6M Cap (Browns): - 2022 $4.9 - 2023 $23.76 - 2024 $23.76 - 2025 $3.76 - 2026 $3.76 If the browns trade or release him in the 2024 league year they take the '25 and '26 hits in 2024. If they allow contract to lapse after 2024, they take both '25 and '26 hits in 2025. If they extend him, they take $3.76 in 2025 and $3.76 in 2026 plus whatever the new contract has. None of the 3.76M in 24-26 (11.3) is tradable. Edited March 20 by Rew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 5 minutes ago, Rew said: Looks mostly right to me. Nits would be that he's had $80M paid out already. This year (2024) the 23.7M cap is $20M of "new money" and $3.76M from 2022 signing bonus. Like you said, if they cut they owe cap for this year's 3.76 + the next 2 years. The item that doesn't seem to show up is what happened to the $6M of signing bonus that the boys paid but is never shown on public sites ($2M x 3 years). They incurred this as deadcap in 2022 after trading Amari, but it disappears for some reason. Sportac also is confusing that is shows the cap hit of 7.55 in 2025 as well as 3.76 in 2026. This is wrong. It's technically what you stated, 3.76 in each year. However, if he is not extended but finishes his contract it would all be incurred in 2025 (7.55). per Spotrac.....Dallas took that $6 mil Dead Cap hit in 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rew said: Void year money is already paid (as a singing bonus). It stays with current team and probably accelerates. There are variations on signing bonus handling in contracts, but I believe this would be the typical outcome. Correct. Void years are just used to spread out the cap hit from signing bonus money. All cap hits from void years accelerate when a player is cut or traded. Into the current year if by 6/1 or the following year if post 6/1. Edited March 20 by BarleyNY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rew Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 5 minutes ago, papazoid said: per Spotrac.....Dallas took that $6 mil Dead Cap hit in 2022 Apologies, I see it on the team page. Still don't see where they list it on player page. But that is the "near 100M you mentioned. Add in the 6M and subtract out the duplicate 3.76M and it's 100 exact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) $12.0 Dal 2020 (cap) $22.0 Dal 2021 (cap) $06.0 Dal 2022 (dead) $04.9 Cle 2022 (cap) $23.77 Cle 2023 (cap) $23.77 Cle 2024 (cap) $07.55 Cle 2025 (dead) $100 mil TOTAL now...if they keep him for 2024....its $23.77 cap 2024 AND the 2025 dead of $7.55 for a total of $31.32 if they cut him, its a dead cap of $11.328.....doesn't that make the real savings $20 mil ? if so, he's gone Edited March 20 by papazoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 21 hours ago, FireChans said: So I was looking at the Browns Spotrac page at Amari Cooper in particular. Entering the last year of his deal, with the Jeudy signing, maybe he could be had. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/amari-cooper-16728/ He currently has two void years after this year for around a $10M combined cap hit in 2025 and 2026. His cap hit this season is $23M. If he's traded today, it looks like the Browns would save 12M in salary and take on a dead cap hit of 11M. But what happens to that extra 10M in void years? Would the team trading for him have to put that on their books? The Browns owe Cooper $20M in salary and if he's traded, that $20M goes with him. You can tell because that's the "Yearly Cash" bucket. The Browns would save all $20M in salary by trading Cooper, it would all go to their trade partner. Void years are a cap tool that divides a signing, restructure, or option bonus into more and smaller pieces. But the bonuses are money already paid, so when the player is traded, they stay with the trading team, not the trade partner. The Dead Cap of $11.328M the Browns would take on if they traded Cooper would be from his $3.776M restructure bonus for 2024, and the 2 void years, accelerating into this season. 3 x $3.776 = $11.328 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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