Takeaways from Beane's Combine pressers

[BillsFanForever19]

37 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I would not do this Rasoul Douglas is playing at a very high-level extend him

 

Maybe he or his agent aren't interested in doing an extension and want to test their market in a year. Maybe he's creating a situation where we have no choice but to pay him the full 9m he's owed or let him walk.

 

He was playing at a high level as a starting CB in Green Bay, then switched to a different team Midseason, and performed maybe even better. This showcased his ability wasn't just a Green Bay thing. I can easily see a scenario where he or his agent believe he could cash in next season.

 

And/or maybe he and his agent are asking for a substantial number if he is to re-sign and not test his market. And given what we already have and hoping White will come back, maybe they aren't interested in doing that.

 

Maybe Beane truly believes in White and thinks he will be ready to roll Week 1. It never made sense to me that in the situation we're in that we'd have 3 starting CB's in Douglas, White, and Benford - with our cap being what it is and the amount of holes we have at other positions. 

 

I always thought Tre would be the odd man out. But it appears to me that Beane sees it as Douglas. I do hope if that is the plan though that we can trade him for something.

[SoonerBillsFan]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Maybe he or his agent aren't interested in doing an extension and want to test their market in a year. Maybe he's creating a situation where we have no choice but to pay him the full 9m he's owed or let him walk.

 

He was playing at a high level as a starting CB in Green Bay, then switched to a different team Midseason, and performed maybe even better. This showcased his ability wasn't just a Green Bay thing. I can easily see a scenario where he or his agent believe he could cash in next season.

 

And/or maybe he and his agent are asking for a substantial number if he is to re-sign and not test his market. And given what we already have and hoping White will come back, maybe they aren't interested in doing that.

 

Maybe Beane truly believes in White and thinks he will be ready to roll Week 1. It never made sense to me that in the situation we're in that we'd have 3 starting CB's in Douglas, White, and Benford - with our cap being what it is and the amount of holes we have at other positions. 

 

I always thought Tre would be the odd man out. But it appears to me that Beane sees it as Douglas. I do hope if that is the plan though that we can trade him for something.

I agree tha IF there is an issue it's money.  At his age this next contract will be his last, and he wants the most amount of money.  You can't blame him if that's the case.

[HurlyBurly51]

On 3/4/2024 at 12:57 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Maybe he or his agent aren't interested in doing an extension and want to test their market in a year. Maybe he's creating a situation where we have no choice but to pay him the full 9m he's owed or let him walk.

 

He was playing at a high level as a starting CB in Green Bay, then switched to a different team Midseason, and performed maybe even better. This showcased his ability wasn't just a Green Bay thing. I can easily see a scenario where he or his agent believe he could cash in next season.

 

And/or maybe he and his agent are asking for a substantial number if he is to re-sign and not test his market. And given what we already have and hoping White will come back, maybe they aren't interested in doing that.

 

Maybe Beane truly believes in White and thinks he will be ready to roll Week 1. It never made sense to me that in the situation we're in that we'd have 3 starting CB's in Douglas, White, and Benford - with our cap being what it is and the amount of holes we have at other positions. 

 

I always thought Tre would be the odd man out. But it appears to me that Beane sees it as Douglas. I do hope if that is the plan though that we can trade him for something.

Way too many “maybes”. There is no indication that Tre is going to be physically recovered.  Where have you seen Beane say that?  Because he did NOT indicate that in his interview where some believe his use of “past tense” indicates Rasul is a goner😂. Do you not think Beane can get a non-guaranteed extension with White to lower his 2024 cap hit?  If that happens it’s more than feasible all of them are here in 2024, including Rasul at his contract number.

[SoonerBillsFan]

9 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Way too many “maybes”. There is no indication that Tre is going to be physically recovered.  Where have you seen Beane say that?  Because he did NOT indicate that in his interview where some believe his use of “past tense” indicates Rasul is a goner😂. Do you not think Beane can get a non-guaranteed extension with White to lower his 2024 cap hit?  If that happens it’s more than feasible all of them are here in 2024, including Rasul at his contract number.

I can't see us keeping Tre.  Fans need to realize how devastating an Achilles is on a player that must move the way a DB has to.  Hr won't be held what he was when he was an all pro.  We just can't keep him with his contract.

[BillsFanForever19]

9 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Way too many “maybes”. There is no indication that Tre is going to be physically recovered.  Where have you seen Beane say that?  Because he did NOT indicate that in his interview where some believe his use of “past tense” indicates Rasul is a goner😂. Do you not think Beane can get a non-guaranteed extension with White to lower his 2024 cap hit?  If that happens it’s more than feasible all of them are here in 2024, including Rasul at his contract number.

 

OR you can get Tre's number down in a non-guaranteed extension AND save 9m by Trading or Releasing Douglas as his money is also not guaranteed. Tre's number, even in a non-guaranteed extension is still going to be high. 

 

I get it. You don't like the idea of moving on from Douglas. Let me ask you this - would you rather move on from White? 

[SoonerBillsFan]

33 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

OR you can get Tre's number down in a non-guaranteed extension AND save 9m by Trading or Releasing Douglas as his money is also not guaranteed. Tre's number, even in a non-guaranteed extension is still going to be high. 

 

I get it. You don't like the idea of moving on from Douglas. Let me ask you this - would you rather move on from White? 

No way in hell I just cut a guy Ibpaid a 3rd for.  Trade him for a day 2 pick.

[HurlyBurly51]

8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Let me ask you this - would you rather move on from White? 

Gotta see how he recovers.  Until then you don't touch Rasul.  Keep your options open, best bet is Beane keeping all of them this year.  From the Athletic, here's how you do it:

 

"There is a scenario to split the difference here and get the best of both worlds because of how cap strapped they are. To keep the player, not sacrifice the depth and have to settle for a potentially lesser player than White at third cornerback and save the same amount they would to cut him, and that’s by way of a non-guaranteed extension with a reworked first year. Coming off an Achilles injury, White’s best chance of maximizing his earnings this year is by staying in Buffalo. For the cap savings, the Bills can negotiate a non-guaranteed extension through 2027. By turning his $1.5 million roster bonus, $300K workout bonus and $4.14 million of his base salary into a signing bonus, they could prorate it through four years for immediate 2024 cap savings. His base salary in 2024 would be $1.21 million (the veteran minimum) and would be guaranteed. The other $3 million would transfer to earned incentives based on playing time parameters this season.

Right now, White isn’t guaranteed a cent on his contract for 2024. By doing this deal, he would be guaranteed $7.15 million this season, with a chance to earn $3.25 million more through incentives and his per-game active bonus. And in doing all this, the Bills save $7.26 million on the 2024 cap — more than they’d save just by cutting him. So they get the cap space, keep the player, keep the depth and maintain the wiggle room of not needing to re-sign Douglas if the price gets too high and White could start in 2025 on a pay-as-you-go contract."

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Gotta see how he recovers.  Until then you don't touch Rasul.  Keep your options open, best bet is Beane keeping all of them this year.  From the Athletic, here's how you do it:

 

"There is a scenario to split the difference here and get the best of both worlds because of how cap strapped they are. To keep the player, not sacrifice the depth and have to settle for a potentially lesser player than White at third cornerback and save the same amount they would to cut him, and that’s by way of a non-guaranteed extension with a reworked first year. Coming off an Achilles injury, White’s best chance of maximizing his earnings this year is by staying in Buffalo. For the cap savings, the Bills can negotiate a non-guaranteed extension through 2027. By turning his $1.5 million roster bonus, $300K workout bonus and $4.14 million of his base salary into a signing bonus, they could prorate it through four years for immediate 2024 cap savings. His base salary in 2024 would be $1.21 million (the veteran minimum) and would be guaranteed. The other $3 million would transfer to earned incentives based on playing time parameters this season.

Right now, White isn’t guaranteed a cent on his contract for 2024. By doing this deal, he would be guaranteed $7.15 million this season, with a chance to earn $3.25 million more through incentives and his per-game active bonus. And in doing all this, the Bills save $7.26 million on the 2024 cap — more than they’d save just by cutting him. So they get the cap space, keep the player, keep the depth and maintain the wiggle room of not needing to re-sign Douglas if the price gets too high and White could start in 2025 on a pay-as-you-go contract."

 

They chose to restructure Douglas. Which, honestly, in the last year of his deal - I didn't know was an option. Hadn't heard it mentioned by anyone.

 

I think the change in tone at the Presser was because the question was specifically about an extension and Beane knew it wasn't happening. 

 

Edit: There is is. White's gone. Keeping all 3 just never made sense.

Edited March 6 by BillsFanForever19

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

They chose to restructure Douglas. Which, honestly, in the last year of his deal - I didn't know was an option. Hadn't heard it mentioned by anyone.

 

I think the change in tone at the Presser was because the question was specifically about an extension and Beane knew it wasn't happening. 

 

Edit: There is is. White's gone. Keeping all 3 just never made sense.

But past tense?🤣  So much for Beane with all his superlatives for Tre at his presser🤣

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

But past tense?🤣  So much for Beane with all his superlatives for Tre at his presser🤣

 

So much for "everyone says we can keep all 3" too.

Edited March 6 by BillsFanForever19

[HurlyBurly51]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

So much for "everything says we can keep all 3" too.

That was more likely than releasing Rasul!  Let's see, one of the better players on the team last year who we gave up a 3rd for, versus a guy coming off his ACL then an achilles.  One of the dumber interpretations I've seen around here based on a 15 second sound bite🤣

[HurlyBurly51]

On 2/28/2024 at 7:55 AM, GunnerBill said:

3. Rasul Douglas is not the absolute lock to be back I think most of us assumed. He twice went immediately to past tense when talking about him "I liked what he brought to our defense" and "it was a pleasure getting to know him." Now neither of those definitely mean he is gone, but there are ways of making those same points without phrasing in the past tense and as I said at the start sometimes Beane tells you more than he means to. It definitely made my ears prick up. He is almost $10m of pure savings with zero dead cap if they cut him. I'm not saying I expect them to but I thought the tense he used was interesting. 

Yikes.  That was quite a stretch based on the whole 15 second sound bite.

[BillsFanForever19]

26 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

That was more likely than releasing Rasul!  Let's see, one of the better players on the team last year who we gave up a 3rd for, versus a guy coming off his ACL then an achilles.  One of the dumber interpretations I've seen around here based on a 15 second sound bite🤣

 

My take all Offseason was one of them was going to go. I initially thought it was White. But in listening to him at the Combine talk about the two, it felt like he was leaning towards Douglas. I was far from the only one who thought this.

 

Let's not take a stance of superiority and post victory laps on multiple threads. You've been non-stop arguing your stance based on a report that we can keep all 3 and that's what made the most sense to you.

Edited March 6 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Yikes.  That was quite a stretch based on the whole 15 second sound bite.

 

What was quite a stretch? That it wasn't a lock he was back? Do you know that it was? 

 

He is back. I was clear that was still a possibility. What the presser did was raise the possibility he might not have been.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What was quite a stretch? That it wasn't a lock he was back? Do you know that it was? 

 

He is back. I was clear that was still a possibility. What the presser did was raise the possibility he might not have been.

They were very likely in negotiations which resulted in cold language at the presser, which means there was definitely a chance he was gone. 
 

Hilarious to say that was a stretch

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What was quite a stretch? That it wasn't a lock he was back? Do you know that it was? 

 

He is back. I was clear that was still a possibility. What the presser did was raise the possibility he might not have been.

 

He's just interested in taking victory laps right now. Never mind the fact that his stance from the beginning was that Douglas would be here along with White.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What was quite a stretch? That it wasn't a lock he was back? Do you know that it was? 

 

He is back. I was clear that was still a possibility. What the presser did was raise the possibility he might not have been.

Why would they cut him though ?

 

He was the best CB here after he arrived .. and they just traded a 3rd round pick for him …

 

My take is that his agent is playing hard ball on the money for his extension …so Beane didn’t want to come across as too enthusiastic about him in the presser

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

Why would they cut him though ?

 

He was the best CB here after he arrived .. and they just traded a 3rd round pick for him …

 

My take is that his agent is playing hard ball on the money for his extension …so Beane didn’t want to come across as too enthusiastic about him in the presser

 

Yea that may well have been the position. But if they were playing hard ball then at that point he was not a lock. 

 

I should say I like the restructure idea better than the extension idea with Douglas. Although it does mean this time next year we will likely be in the cornerback market early in the draft unless Elam suddenly turns it around.

Edited March 6 by GunnerBill

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea that may well have been the position. But if they were playing hard ball then at that point he was not a lock. 

He still might not be extended … but they need him in 2024…

[HurlyBurly51]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

What the presser did was raise the possibility he might not have been.

Not really.  Running with the so called "past tense" comments in a 15 second sound bite was quite the interpretation😂  That was the stretch.

[HurlyBurly51]

23 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

My take all Offseason was one of them was going to go. I initially thought it was White. But in listening to him at the Combine talk about the two, it felt like he was leaning towards Douglas. I was far from the only one who thought this.

 

Let's not take a stance of superiority and post victory laps on multiple threads. You've been non-stop arguing your stance based on a report that we can keep all 3 and that's what made the most sense to you.

No, keeping Douglas was a no brainer all along.  What seemed possible was keeping White based on the cap ramifications of just releasing him.  But anyone who just ran solely on a silly "past tense" interpretation wasn't thinking critically.  As soon as I saw that post I knew this day was coming, just a matter of when.

[HurlyBurly51]

23 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He's just interested in taking victory laps right now. Never mind the fact that his stance from the beginning was that Douglas would be here along with White.

Um, no, that was not the stance.  The stance was Douglas was going to be the one who would be here all along, and anyone basing their opinion otherwise based on a silly 15 second sound bite wasn't thinking critically.  What I did actually say was that it was possible Tre was also back based on the cap ramifications of releasing him outright.  

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Um, no, that was not the stance.  The stance was Douglas was going to be the one who would be here all along, and anyone basing their opinion otherwise based on a silly 15 second sound bite wasn't thinking critically.  What I did actually say was that it was possible Tre was also back based on the cap ramifications of releasing him outright.  

 

Really? So that wasn't you on the Ryan Bates thread telling me "read the Buscaglia article - there's a path for all 3 of them to be on the roster"? 

 

And not you here again saying:

 

2 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

best bet is Beane keeping all of them this year.  From the Athletic, here's how you do it:

 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Um, no, that was not the stance.  The stance was Douglas was going to be the one who would be here all along, and anyone basing their opinion otherwise based on a silly 15 second sound bite wasn't thinking critically.  What I did actually say was that it was possible Tre was also back based on the cap ramifications of releasing him outright.  

Well by your logic, that it was “possible” Tre White was back was quite a stretch. 
 

Because he ain’t back. 

[HurlyBurly51]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Really? So that wasn't you on the Ryan Bates thread telling me "read the Buscaglia article - there's a path for all 3 of them to be on the roster"? 

 

And not you here again saying:

 

 

I don't see the inconsistencies?  As I said, all the quotes you want to attribute to me all had one thing in common - Rasul being here in 2024!  Again, was it possible from a cap mgmt perspective to keep Tre as well?  I did make that argument and supplied a little supporting reasoning as to why.  But either way, I was very consistent that Rasul was not going to be the choice to go if that were to be the decision. 

 

But based on your misplaced interpretation of Beane's comments at his presser I can understand why you are struggling to accurately portray my stance here.

[HurlyBurly51]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Well by your logic, that it was “possible” Tre White was back was quite a stretch. 
 

Because he ain’t back. 

Not really - one was based on logic and reasoning, and the other, well, wasn't.

[FireChans]

Just now, HurlyBurly51 said:

Not really - one was based on logic and reasoning, and the other, well, wasn't.

But it was a stretch because you were wrong. Just like @GunnerBill saying it was “possible” Douglas wasn’t here was a stretch, because he’s staying. 
 

There’s your own “logic” and “reasoning.” Lol.

[BillsFanForever19]

12 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

I don't see the inconsistencies?  As I said, all the quotes you want to attribute to me all had one thing in common - Rasul being here in 2024!  Again, was it possible from a cap mgmt perspective to keep Tre as well?  I did make that argument and supplied a little supporting reasoning as to why.  But either way, I was very consistent that Rasul was not going to be the choice to go if that were to be the decision. 

 

But based on your misplaced interpretation of Beane's comments at his presser I can understand why you are struggling to accurately portray my stance here.

 

I'm saying that you're taking victory laps and a stance of superiority, mocking others, while all of your posts were about nobody going.

 

So you were right in the sense that Douglas wasn't moved. But you were also wrong in saying on multiple occasions that you saw all 3 staying based on an article you kept quoting.

 

I asked you if you would rather move on from Tre. This is because all of my posts all offseason were that one of them had to go. I was wrong in my interpretation of the Combine that it could be Douglas.

 

It was White. If you want to call others out for misinterpreting the Combine comments - you have to own that your stance was not just that Douglas would stay, but that White would as well. 

Edited March 6 by BillsFanForever19

[HurlyBurly51]

Just now, FireChans said:

But it was a stretch because you were wrong. Just like @GunnerBill saying it was “possible” Douglas wasn’t here was a stretch, because he’s staying. 
 

There’s your own “logic” and “reasoning.” Lol.

No, the stretch was a silly "interpretation" of a 15 second blurb and using that as the sole basis for meaning Rasul was a goner😂  Right or wrong, there was at least some analysis based in reality for whether Tre coming back was a possibility.

[FireChans]

On 2/28/2024 at 7:55 AM, GunnerBill said:

Rasul Douglas is not the absolute lock to be back I think most of us assumed.

 

1 minute ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

No, the stretch was a silly "interpretation" of a 15 second blurb and using that as the sole basis for meaning Rasul was a goner😂  Right or wrong, there was at least some analysis based in reality for whether Tre coming back was a possibility.

 🤡 post. This is the worst victory lap of all time 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

 🤡 post. This is the worst victory lap of all time 

 

Exactly. Victory laps are cringe to begin with. But they can't be taken when your stance is only half correct.

[HurlyBurly51]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

 🤡 post. This is the worst victory lap of all time 

I see you have an interpretation issue as well.  Because your response supports exactly what I was saying.  🤡

 

"Rasul Douglas is not the absolute lock to be back I think most of us assumed."  Which was based on supposed "past tense" comments🤦‍♂️

[BillsFanForever19]

9 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

I see you have an interpretation issue as well.  Because your response supports exactly what I was saying.  🤡

 

"Rasul Douglas is not the absolute lock to be back I think most of us assumed."  Which was based on supposed "past tense" comments🤦‍♂️

 

The hilarious thing about your manic posting mocking others is that NONE of us - not me, @GunnerBill, @FireChans, or anyone else who thought it was an odd exchange did anything but hypothesize that it's possible he won't be here. None of us took a stance of "Douglas is definitely gone".

 

Re-read all of my posts. The only sure fire stance I took was that Douglas and White would not be here at the same time. The most I said was that I thought White would be gone but after the Combine, it could be Douglas.

Edited March 7 by BillsFanForever19

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

I see you have an interpretation issue as well.  Because your response supports exactly what I was saying.  🤡

 

"Rasul Douglas is not the absolute lock to be back I think most of us assumed."  Which was based on supposed "past tense" comments🤦‍♂️

Saying “he’s not an absolute lock” and “Rasul was a goner” are the same statements demonstrates you are the one who struggles with interpretation. Fun projection though.

[HurlyBurly51]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Saying “he’s not an absolute lock” and “Rasul was a goner” are the same statements demonstrates you are the one who struggles with interpretation. Fun projection though.

You like quotes, here's the relative one in context that starts the silly misinterpretation that folks subsequently ran with implying Douglas was a cut candidate:

 

"there are ways of making those same points without phrasing in the past tense and as I said at the start sometimes Beane tells you more than he means to."