Mini-Rockpile - Bills Win Again at Arrowhead!

[Figster]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, your comment about minor details reminds me of my reaction to the penalty as called.  When I saw there was a flag, my first reaction was, "It's on the Bills, touchdown."  When they announced the Offside and we saw the replay, I thought it was an overly technical application of the rules.  Then their expert said it was a point of emphasis this season, and it's been called 9 times, or something like that, and I felt better. 

 

Finally, when I realized it was Toney, I was completely okay with the call.  Why?   Because I'd bet that Toney came out of the huddle all excited that they were going to run his gadget play, lost his concentration, didn't notice that he was offside, and forgot to ask.  In other words, he lost focus in the heat of the moment.  

 

Why are receivers trained to ask the official if they're line up properly?   For exactly this reason - so they won't be offside.   It was all on Toney, and on the coaches for having failed to train him to perform under pressure.  

I think part of the problem here Shaw is we're dealing with an imaginary line of scrimmage and in the past the officials have told players when they need to back up a little. I get the point of emphasis being put on it, but in this day and age why not mark it with a laser beam from both sides so players know when they block the beam.

[HardyBoy]

17 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

This section has a little Proverbial feel to it:

 

Proverbs 30:18-19

“There are three things that are too amazing for me,
    four that I do not understand:
the way of an eagle in the sky,
    the way of a snake on a rock,
the way of a ship on the high seas,
    and the way of a man with a young woman."

 

In the footnotes of your Bible, Soloman added:

 

"Nor why the Buffalo Bills can't execute a bubble or regular screen pass." . . .  It is a mystery of Biblical proportion.

 

Wait, why isn't it young man with a young woman? 😬

[Shaw66]

15 hours ago, Figster said:

I think part of the problem here Shaw is we're dealing with an imaginary line of scrimmage and in the past the officials have told players when they need to back up a little. I get the point of emphasis being put on it, but in this day and age why not mark it with a laser beam from both sides so players know when they block the beam.

Absolutely.  

 

There's something not right about an official standing on the field and seeing that a guy is lined up wrong and not saying anything about it.  When basketball players line up for a jump ball, the officials be sure everyone is in place, and direct them to move.  Typically, they'll do it at the free throw line, too.

 

The bottom line for me is that penalties are bad, in the sense that they break up the flow of the game and they erase otherwise good plays, so the objective should be to minimize penalties.  Most, of course, can't be ignored.   When the play starts, if someone does something that unfairly impairs the other team or that is a threat to injure someone, then sure, you have to call the penalty to keep the game fair and safe.   But when it's a dead ball situation, no one is moving, but it's clear that there will be a penalty if the ball is snapped, then fix it.   Why run a play in that situation?

 

Another one:  Why does anyone have to be penalized for delay of game if they don't call time out in time before the flag is thrown?   Why isn't the rule that if the play clock runs out, blow the whistle, throw the flag, and give the offense the option to take the five yard penalty or take a timeout?   

 

It just seems to me that there are a collection of rules and procedures that could be modified to make the game run more efficiently and create fewer circumstances that seem to the fans to be unfair.   Even most Bills fans can agree that Toney lined up where he was did not give him a competitive advantage in any material way, so taking the play away from the Chiefs was unfair in every sense except one, which is that he broke a rule and there are consequences for breaking the rules.  Why not eliminate the perceived unfairness by getting both teams in compliance with the rule.   

 

A good example was on the Bills' punt late in the Chiefs game.  There was some kind of altercation.  Neal's helmet was half off.  It was a dead ball.  An official essentially told Neal to get his helmet all the way on, because if it came off, he'd be penalized.  We all would have been royally PO'd if in that case Neal's helmet had fallen off his head and the Bills were penalized 15 yards.  Instead, the official assisted the player to be sure he'd be in compliance with the rule.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Shaw66

[Figster]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:02 AM, Shaw66 said:

Absolutely.  

 

There's something not right about an official standing on the field and seeing that a guy is lined up wrong and not saying anything about it.  When basketball players line up for a jump ball, the officials be sure everyone is in place, and direct them to move.  Typically, they'll do it at the free throw line, too.

 

The bottom line for me is that penalties are bad, in the sense that they break up the flow of the game and they erase otherwise good plays, so the objective should be to minimize penalties.  Most, of course, can't be ignored.   When the play starts, if someone does something that unfairly impairs the other team or that is a threat to injure someone, then sure, you have to call the penalty to keep the game fair and safe.   But when it's a dead ball situation, no one is moving, but it's clear that there will be a penalty if the ball is snapped, then fix it.   Why run a play in that situation?

 

Another one:  Why does anyone have to be penalized for delay of game if they don't call time out in time before the flag is thrown?   Why isn't the rule that if the play clock runs out, blow the whistle, throw the flag, and give the offense the option to take the five yard penalty or take a timeout?   

 

It just seems to me that there are a collection of rules and procedures that could be modified to make the game run more efficiently and create fewer circumstances that seem to the fans to be unfair.   Even most Bills fans can agree that Toney lined up where he was did not give him a competitive advantage in any material way, so taking the play away from the Chiefs was unfair in every sense except one, which is that he broke a rule and there are consequences for breaking the rules.  Why not eliminate the perceived unfairness by getting both teams in compliance with the rule.   

 

A good example was on the Bills' punt late in the Chiefs game.  There was some kind of altercation.  Neal's helmet was half off.  It was a dead ball.  An official essentially told Neal to get his helmet all the way on, because if it came off, he'd be penalized.  We all would have been royally PO'd if in that case Neal's helmet had fallen off his head and the Bills were penalized 15 yards.  Instead, the official assisted the player to be sure he'd be in compliance with the rule.  

You bring up an important aspect of watching football games as a form of entertainment. Flow of the game. Gugs touched on this awhile back as it relates to penalties. Nobody wants to watch a game where the winning strategy thought up by both teams is compromised with penalties. Holding on the Offense by way of example puts a team that runs the ball well into a passing mode. Why is holding is a 5 yard penalty on the Defense and a 10 yard penalty on the Offense? 

 

Myself personally Shaw, the NFL has to many penalties because players get away with them more often then not. For this reason adding missed or wrong calls to the red flag challenge would reduce penalties overall, not increase them IMO. It would also help identify the penalty where it is needed most. On game altering plays.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

You bring up an important aspect of watching football games as a form of entertainment. Flow of the game. Gugs touched on this awhile back as it relates to penalties. Nobody wants to watch a game where the winning strategy thought up by both teams is compromised with penalties. Holding on the Offense by way of example puts a team that runs the ball well into a passing mode. Why is holding is a 5 yard penalty on the Defense and a 10 yard penalty on the Offense? 

 

Myself personally Shaw, the NFL has to many penalties because players get away with them more often then not. For this reason adding missed or wrong calls to the red flag challenge would reduce penalties overall, not increase them IMO. It would also help identify the penalty where it is needed most. On game altering plays.

Wow.  Great stuff.  "compromised by penalties" is a good point.  And holding being worse for running teams is another good point, although it's consistent with NFL's preference for passing games - higher scores and more exciting plays.  

 

I agree with what you're saying about, essentially, more real time reviews.  They can figure out how to review, almost instantly, any play, just to be sure they aren't missing game-changing plays.   It almost would be taking the penalties away from the officials on the field, and they'd have to deal with the union about it, but I think the viewing public would adopt the change.  It would just be a more modern way to enforce the rules, like somehow digitally following the football to determine spots, first downs, touchdowns.  And, as you suggest, more reviews.  I've said a few times that it makes no sense to have an automatic review on scoring plays and turnovers, while NOT having automatic reviews on plays that would have been scores or turnovers except for the officials' spot of the ball.   Not getting the score or turnover is every bit as important as getting it.  

[BearNorth]

Watching the replay, I see that they called Josh "In the Grasp" on a completion, but when Mahomes is grabbed by a defender in the last series, and flings the ball, it's an incomplete pass.  Another area where officials are inconsistent.

[WotAGuy]

15 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Watching the replay, I see that they called Josh "In the Grasp" on a completion, but when Mahomes is grabbed by a defender in the last series, and flings the ball, it's an incomplete pass.  Another area where officials are inconsistent.

That chuck by Mahomes was ridiculous and he should have been called down or intentional grounding. 

[Shaw66]

41 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

That chuck by Mahomes was ridiculous and he should have been called down or intentional grounding. 

But he wasn't down by contact and he did throw it in the vicinity of a receiver.   There was no penalty to call there.  We all know he was throwing it away, but they can't throw flags based on he intended to do - it was a live ball and he threw it in the vicinity of a receiver.  When Josh threw it on his horse collar play, he was throwing it away, too, and I think it WAS in the vicinity of a receiver, so it also shouldn't have been called.  

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Wow.  Great stuff.  "compromised by penalties" is a good point.  And holding being worse for running teams is another good point, although it's consistent with NFL's preference for passing games - higher scores and more exciting plays.  

 

I agree with what you're saying about, essentially, more real time reviews.  They can figure out how to review, almost instantly, any play, just to be sure they aren't missing game-changing plays.   It almost would be taking the penalties away from the officials on the field, and they'd have to deal with the union about it, but I think the viewing public would adopt the change.  It would just be a more modern way to enforce the rules, like somehow digitally following the football to determine spots, first downs, touchdowns.  And, as you suggest, more reviews.  I've said a few times that it makes no sense to have an automatic review on scoring plays and turnovers, while NOT having automatic reviews on plays that would have been scores or turnovers except for the officials' spot of the ball.   Not getting the score or turnover is every bit as important as getting it.  

I've been saying this since the minor leagues (USFL/XFL) came on the scene with a much more efficient and transparent officiating process. The NFL has the resources to be much, much better. They don't even need more resources, in fact, just a refreshed mindset and approach to the whole thing.

[stuvian]

A 17 game season feels like half a lifetime. I would rather finish strong than fade away. I liked how our defense bailed out the offense for a change. Our best players are still healthy. Sometimes that's enough