Mr. WEO Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: I’m talking about fines coming after bogus penalties, it doesn’t necessarily have to be roughing the passer. Just because the hit wasn’t illegal - just like Cody Ford’s block on that DE in the Houston playoffs - doesn’t mean a fine won’t follow. If there’s a 15 yard infraction the league is looking to hand down financial penalties. In fact, even after upholding Ford’s fine, the league then sent the tape to officials as an illustration of what doesn't constitute a penalty. Go figure. EDIT: Oh and the hit against Brady couldn’t have been called roughing the passer since he was a runner at that point. Yes, Brady took a legal hit as a runner... ........So now you're saying he wouldn't be flagged, ejected or arrested....but just might be fined in "Goodell's" NFL, even though "the hit wasn't illegal"? You're making less sense each post. In the same week Ford got fined--after flagged (later reduced, not "double downed" or "upheld")--Clowney gave Wentz a clear helmet shot that sent him to the locker room. Zero fine. The league is looking to hand down fines for 15 yards penalties? they penalized 10/93 roughing the passer (10.7%) and 53/162 unsportsmanlike conduct (any reason)/helmet to helmet/defenseless player (32.7%). Total fines were $181K for roughing the passer. Defenseless player only $174K. Compare that to a whopping $166K for taunting, $167K for fighting, $133K for obscene gestures and $135k for celebration. There were more fines laid out for taunting and obscene gestures--EACH--than roughing the passer. If "the league is looking to hand down financial penalties" for 15 yard penalties, they aren't really looking too hard, are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 the fact the 49ers basically forced him out is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 36 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Yes, Brady took a legal hit as a runner... ........So now you're saying he wouldn't be flagged, ejected or arrested....but just might be fined in "Goodell's" NFL, even though "the hit wasn't illegal"? You're making less sense each post. In the same week Ford got fined--after flagged (later reduced, not "double downed" or "upheld")--Clowney gave Wentz a clear helmet shot that sent him to the locker room. Zero fine. The league is looking to hand down fines for 15 yards penalties? they penalized 10/93 roughing the passer (10.7%) and 53/162 unsportsmanlike conduct (any reason)/helmet to helmet/defenseless player (32.7%). Total fines were $181K for roughing the passer. Defenseless player only $174K. Compare that to a whopping $166K for taunting, $167K for fighting, $133K for obscene gestures and $135k for celebration. There were more fines laid out for taunting and obscene gestures--EACH--than roughing the passer. If "the league is looking to hand down financial penalties" for 15 yard penalties, they aren't really looking too hard, are they? I said Clements would be flagged and fined if the same hit occurred today. NEVER said it was roughing the passer, it would’ve been termed “unnecessary roughness.” Also said the ejected and arrested part was a joke. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Why are you so hung up on roughing the passer fines? When was the argument EVER about RTP? Yes, I’m convinced you have reading comprehension problems. You then proceed to list the amount of fines players incurred during the season about a million dollars worth, and then you say the league isn’t looking too hard to hand out financial penalties for 15 yard infractions. Classic WEO nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 12 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: I said Clements would be flagged and fined if the same hit occurred today. NEVER said it was roughing the passer, it would’ve been termed “unnecessary roughness.” Also said the ejected and arrested part was a joke. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Why are you so hung up on roughing the passer fines? When was the argument EVER about RTP? Yes, I’m convinced you have reading comprehension problems. You then proceed to list the amount of fines players incurred during the season about a million dollars worth, and then you say the league isn’t looking too hard to hand out financial penalties for 15 yard infractions. Classic WEO nonsense. lol--"reading comprehension"...the ultimate white flag. Anyway: "The league is looking to hand down fines for 15 yards penalties? they penalized 10/93 roughing the passer (10.7%) and 53/162 unsportsmanlike conduct (any reason)/helmet to helmet/defenseless player (32.7%). Total fines were $181K for roughing the passer. Defenseless player only $174K. Compare that to a whopping $166K for taunting, $167K for fighting, $133K for obscene gestures and $135k for celebration." As I made clear, my stats included not only "roughing the passer" (settle down, son), but all 15 yards penalties--which fell into the second group (helmet to helmet/defenseless/unsportsmanlike). Given your legendary powers of reading comprehension, I know you understood that. I'm pretty sure, with your superior, nay, unmatched, reading skills, you could see I was comparing (when I said "compare that to") the 15 yard penalty money ($893K) to nonsense penalties such as gestures, celebration, taunting and fighting, which combined totaled a whopping $601K. (in 2021, the roughing/helmet/unsportsmanlike totaled only $587K). That's hardly a focus on "handing down fines" for those 15 yard penalties (under 25% are fined). It's the pretty rare occurrence, in fact. That would make it the opposite of "looking to" by the NFL. Pretty simple. To close the circle on your initial unfortunate post: how many players were suspended for 15 yard penalties in 2022? 1 (Evans for fighting). 2021? 1. "Goodell's NFL" isn't doing a very good job of handing down financial penalties (via fines or suspensions) for 15 yard penalties after all. And, 1 more time, hit on Brady wasn't a penalty in 2001 or 2022. Clean hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: lol--"reading comprehension"...the ultimate white flag. Anyway: "The league is looking to hand down fines for 15 yards penalties? they penalized 10/93 roughing the passer (10.7%) and 53/162 unsportsmanlike conduct (any reason)/helmet to helmet/defenseless player (32.7%). Total fines were $181K for roughing the passer. Defenseless player only $174K. Compare that to a whopping $166K for taunting, $167K for fighting, $133K for obscene gestures and $135k for celebration." As I made clear, my stats included not only "roughing the passer" (settle down, son), but all 15 yards penalties--which fell into the second group (helmet to helmet/defenseless/unsportsmanlike). Given your legendary powers of reading comprehension, I know you understood that. I'm pretty sure, with your superior, nay, unmatched, reading skills, you could see I was comparing (when I said "compare that to") the 15 yard penalty money ($893K) to nonsense penalties such as gestures, celebration, taunting and fighting, which combined totaled a whopping $601K. (in 2021, the roughing/helmet/unsportsmanlike totaled only $587K). That's hardly a focus on "handing down fines" for those 15 yard penalties (under 25% are fined). It's the pretty rare occurrence, in fact. That would make it the opposite of "looking to" by the NFL. Pretty simple. To close the circle on your initial unfortunate post: how many players were suspended for 15 yard penalties in 2022? 1 (Evans for fighting). 2021? 1. "Goodell's NFL" isn't doing a very good job of handing down financial penalties (via fines or suspensions) for 15 yard penalties after all. And, 1 more time, hit on Brady wasn't a penalty in 2001 or 2022. Clean hit. For the umpteenth time - and maybe this one gets through - THE EJECTED AND ARRESTED QUOTE WAS A JOKE. Never did I even put “suspension” out as a joke either, so it was never in my “initial and unfortunate post.” But I’m not surprised you thought that, seeing as how your comprehension is lacking. People like you shrink behind their convictions if they’re forced to stand on them, so let’s put it to the test. A friendly $100 wager, I’ll put up a post with the Clements hit and have members of TBD vote whether it would warrant a flag and a fine in 2022, today’s NFL. I could also dig into CONTROVERSIAL FINES from this year alone and ask if those warranted flags and fines. If more people think as you do, congrats, there’s a free $100 to you. I can live with the subjectivity of the votes either way. You like to talk, so put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise shut up and take your nonsense to one who won’t force you to stand on your convictions. Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said: For the umpteenth time - and maybe this one gets through - THE EJECTED AND ARRESTED QUOTE WAS A JOKE. Never did I even put “suspension” out as a joke either, so it was never in my “initial and unfortunate post.” But I’m not surprised you thought that, seeing as how your comprehension is lacking. People like you shrink behind their convictions if they’re forced to stand on them, so let’s put it to the test. A friendly $100 wager, I’ll put up a post with the Clements hit and have members of TBD vote whether it would warrant a flag and a fine in 2022, today’s NFL. I could also dig into CONTROVERSIAL FINES from this year alone and ask if those warranted flags and fines. If more people think as you do, congrats, there’s a free $100 to you. I can live with the subjectivity of the votes either way. You like to talk, so put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise shut up and take your nonsense to one who won’t force you to stand on your convictions. Deal? It doesn’t what posters think is a penalty. Half of them think all refs fish’s against the Bills are bogus and nearly all the real penalties against the Bills are not called. So that’s a suckers bet. Most of them would say it’s a clean hit if it’s applied on, say, Mahomes or Burrow…but a dirty hit/penalty if it’s Allen on the receiving end. So, obviously your bet is silly. My “conviction” is that There is no focus on fines ( the only conviction you’re sticking to from your original post) for the 15 yard penalties, as I have shown you 3 times and therefore, you simply made that up. You could have saved yourself some face if you had “dug into” any facts regarding any of this at all, before stumbling into your first, ill fated post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 46 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It doesn’t what posters think is a penalty. Half of them think all refs fish’s against the Bills are bogus and nearly all the real penalties against the Bills are not called. So that’s a suckers bet. Most of them would say it’s a clean hit if it’s applied on, say, Mahomes or Burrow…but a dirty hit/penalty if it’s Allen on the receiving end. So, obviously your bet is silly. My “conviction” is that There is no focus on fines ( the only conviction you’re sticking to from your original post) for the 15 yard penalties, as I have shown you 3 times and therefore, you simply made that up. You could have saved yourself some face if you had “dug into” any facts regarding any of this at all, before stumbling into your first, ill fated post. But it’s not Allen, Mahomes, or Burrow on the receiving end, so your argument is baseless and silly. In fact, I can post the video on another fan’s board, you pick the team. Probably better that way anyway since it’d be entirely neutral. I’ll grant you that advantage of picking whatever team of the 32 you like. The question will be simple: is this a flag for unnecessary roughness if the same hit occurred today? And would #22 on the Bills be fined for the hit? Both conditions will have to be met. Your next post is yes or no and if yes, the team that will receive the post. We can have someone from TBD hold the money so that neither party reneges. Your conviction is that it’s not a penalty or fine in today’s NFL because it’s a legal hit. It’s sad I have to remind you. My conviction is that it is. I don’t care about all your other words talking me to death. Let’s see who waves the white flag… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 5 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Just because the hit wasn’t illegal, doesn't mean a fine won't follow 4 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: But it’s not Allen, Mahomes, or Burrow on the receiving end, so your argument is baseless and silly. In fact, I can post the video on another fan’s board, you pick the team. Probably better that way anyway since it’d be entirely neutral. I’ll grant you that advantage of picking whatever team of the 32 you like. The question will be simple: is this a flag for unnecessary roughness if the same hit occurred today? And would #22 on the Bills be fined for the hit? Both conditions will have to be met. Your next post is yes or no and if yes, the team that will receive the post. We can have someone from TBD hold the money so that neither party reneges. Your conviction is that it’s not a penalty or fine in today’s NFL because it’s a legal hit. It’s sad I have to remind you. My conviction is that it is. I don’t care about all your other words talking me to death. Let’s see who waves the white flag… Asked and answered...your words---talking your own point to its death. No need to remind me--I'm agreeing with you!--the hit IS not illegal, as you said. Stick with your convictions!!!! If that hit is put on Mahomes or Burrow (or Brady) "in 2022" (the topic of this discussion), the overwhelming majority of posters here say it's not a penalty. They would be correct--this is in contradiction to your first proposition, why change your bet?----stick with your convictions!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Would’ve at the very least been flagged, I guarantee it. Even if it was legal. 9 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Flagged and fined. Ejected and arrested was my early morning humor attempt. We’ve seen bogus flags that led to fines and then the NFL doubles down on those fines days after the game rather than admit they were wrong. 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Asked and answered...your words---talking your own point to its death. No need to remind me--I'm agreeing with you!--the hit IS not illegal, as you said. Stick with your convictions!!!! If that hit is put on Mahomes or Burrow (or Brady) "in 2022" (the topic of this discussion), the overwhelming majority of posters here say it's not a penalty. They would be correct--this is in contradiction to your first proposition, why change your bet?----stick with your convictions!!! I said the hit would be fined and flagged If happened today, referenced my two posts above so you couldn’t miss it. Doesn’t matter if it was a shoulder to shoulder hit which is legal contact, it’d still be flagged for unnecessary roughness. But I knew you would lack the conviction to stand on your own words and put this discussion to the test, even if it was with a neutral fanbase. A team of your choosing. I said it earlier, talkers like you shrink when forced to put their argument to the test so run along now. You’re just wasting my time with any other rebuttals that aren’t you backing up your own conviction that the hit which occurred in 2000 still wouldn’t be flagged and fined in 2022. Edited February 12, 2023 by JayBaller10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 9 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: A really great article from Wright Thompson…an in-depth dive into the background and current life of Joe Montana. I always respected his game and found him to be very rootable when not playing the Bills. Some nuggets include his acrimonious relationship with basically all of his coaches from high school in Western Pa, Notre Dame and 9ers…he succeeded despite them and their constant questioning of his abilities to be a transcendent talent. Also goes into greater detail about his complicated feelings towards Brady’s accomplishments…some excerpts: The violent league he dominated no longer exists. He got knocked out of three different playoff games with hits that would now be illegal. Jim Burt hit him in 1987, and the camera settles on Montana seeming to mumble. He was knocked cold and taken away in the back of an ambulance. In the fourth quarter of the 1990 NFC Championship Game, he rolled out, dodged Lawrence Taylor and looked downfield. Leonard Marshall hit him from behind, helmet to helmet, driving Montana's head down into the turf. The hit broke his hand, cracked his ribs, bruised his sternum and stomach and gave him a concussion. Steve Young sprinted onto the field in concern and got to Joe first. "Are you all right, Joe?" he yelled. "I'll be all right," Joe whispered. The team doctors asked where he hurt. "Everywhere," he told them. Montana, who looked like a golden boy with his hair and his Ferrari, knew the secret to winning football better than anyone. It wasn't athleticism or mental acuity or even accuracy. "Suffering," Ronnie Lott says. Montana accepts that pain is the price football extracts. It's easy to imagine why the success of Tom Brady, who got out without any scars, would seem like a violation of the most basic codes of the game. Growing up, Montana idolized Johnny Unitas, who made the plays and took the shots. Joe wore No. 19 as a kid. A photo exists of him as a rookie wearing a Niners No. 19, but when camp broke, the equipment managers assigned him No. 16 instead. The next time Montana chose a number again, with the Kansas City Chiefs, he picked No. 19. Worth a read even though it’s a long article. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35604915/49ers-legend-joe-montana-reflects-legacy-ahead-super-bowl You were correct, it was a long read, but it was a very good read. Well written and good insight into what life is like …..”after”. Thanks for the link. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: I said the hit would be fined and flagged If happened today, referenced my two posts above so you couldn’t miss it. Doesn’t matter if it was a shoulder to shoulder hit which is legal contact, it’d still be flagged for unnecessary roughness. But I knew you would lack the conviction to stand on your own words and put this discussion to the test, even if it was with a neutral fanbase. A team of your choosing. I said it earlier, talkers like you shrink when forced to put their argument to the test so run along now. You’re just wasting my time with any other rebuttals that aren’t you backing up your own conviction that the hit which occurred in 2000 still wouldn’t be flagged and fined in 2022. why would I help you out of a corner you carelessly painted yourself into?—or ask a bunch of strangers in other sites to help you figure out your point? Wouldnt it be simpler to just tell us what is illegal about that hit in 2022? And tell us how you concluded that the NFL is specifically emphasizing fines for 15 yard penalties, despite all evidence to the contrary. Stop obfuscating. Just tell us what is the basis of your position on these 2 points. Just say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 9 hours ago, Chicken Boo said: I can't remember, but wasn't the rule that you can't tackle a QB low made after Brady's ACL tear? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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