Leslie Frazier's "Spy Games" against Mahomes made possible only because of Von Miller(with pics)

[Big Turk]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Goodness!  That's a paywalled article.  Guess there's nothing the Interwebs "can't get pregnant".

 

I got a question for the rules-minded and football knowledgeable here.

The author comments about a "simple counter" for the Bills "Spy" strategy where Thuney (LG) will attack and block Milano pre-emptively before he can trigger and flow to Mahome.  This is 3rd and 13 from the Buffalo 29 yd line. 

 

 

 

 

 

So here are the official rules for Ineligble man downfield:

 

SECTION 3 - INELIGIBLE PLAYER DOWNFIELD

 

ARTICLE 1. LEGAL AND ILLEGAL ACTS

On a scrimmage play during which a legal forward pass is thrown, an ineligible offensive player, including a T-formation quarterback, is not permitted to move more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage before the pass has been thrown.

 

Item 1. Legally Downfield. 

 

An ineligible player is not illegally downfield if, after initiating contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage during his initial charge:

• he moves more than one yard beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an opponent
• after breaking legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he remains stationary until a forward pass is thrown
• after losing legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he is forced behind the line of scrimmage by an opponent, at which time he is again subject to normal blocking restrictions for an ineligible offensive player.

Note: If an ineligible offensive player moves beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an opponent, an eligible offensive player may catch a pass between them and the line of scrimmage.

 

Item 2. Illegally Downfield. 

 

An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield if:

• he moves more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage without contacting an opponent
• after losing contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage, he advances more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage
• after losing contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he continues to move toward his opponent’s goal line.

Penalty: For ineligible offensive player downfield: Loss of five yards from the previous spot.

Note: An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield when his entire body is more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage.

 

 

 

So from this wording it appears that this WOULD be legal as long as Mahomes doesn't attempt to throw the ball on the play, OR the contact is initiated within one yard of the line of scrimmage. In the picture you provided, if the LOS is at the 29 yard line and Milano stays where he is on the 28 yard line, that would be a legal block if initiated there, even if they ended up 3 or 4 yards downfield, meaning Mahomes could throw the ball as well without being flagged for a penalty.

 

That being said, if an official sees a guy blocking Milano 4 yards downfield on a pass play I would imagine the flag is probably coming out regardless of where the contact is started since that is almost never seen and the officials aren't likely to be watching where he initiated the block from.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Big Turk

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Love the 3-2-6. It’ll be weapon in obvious passing downs with mobileQBs. My only concern is Neal as the 6th DB. I think this role goes to Benford when Tre works back in. Dane will be back up to Elam and White on the outside as Benford offers a bit more physicality from the slot area. 

 

I'll say this, from watching the video.  Frazier's defense was not possible only because of Von Miller.

 

In signing DaQuan Jones, the Bills essentially signed a guy who could play nose tackle if asked - a guy who actually can and will engage 2 blockers consistently.

And I don't think this notion works without him.

 

[Big Turk]

9 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Love the 3-2-6. It’ll be weapon in obvious passing downs with mobileQBs. My only concern is Neal as the 6th DB. I think this role goes to Benford when Tre works back in. Dane will be back up to Elam and White on the outside as Benford offers a bit more physicality from the slot area. 

 

Neal was a beast when he got in the Steelers game...didn't notice him as much in this game.

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Neal was a beast when he got in the Steelers game...didn't notice him as much in this game.

He had two defensive holding penalties.  I also think he had some trouble in coverage.  Agree he was fine in the Steelers game which may have given them confidence to run this defense, but I think Benford is a better coverage player (and overall defender) so is better for this defense.

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'll say this, from watching the video.  Frazier's defense was not possible only because of Von Miller.

 

In signing DaQuan Jones, the Bills essentially signed a guy who could play nose tackle if asked - a guy who actually can and will engage 2 blockers consistently.

And I don't think this notion works without him.

 

Agree DaQuan is just awesome this year and he is critical.  I think it puts a lot of stress on DL to get pressure (otherwise coverage will breakdown eventually).  Thats probably why we havent seen it in past years.  

[Punching Bag]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:12 PM, Dr.Sack said:

Imagine if we had two Von Miller’s. Anybody got more Von’s? 

 

I am glad there are not. Bills could not afford him which means someone else competing with Bills could sign him.

[Fleezoid]

Well, we can throw this defensive game plan out the window if we face the Chiefs in the playoffs. 

 

The Chiefs coaching staff will be analyzing film and breaking the game down on their own, but all this expert analysis is a bit unsettling. It just makes me realize the game will likely be much different If we play them again. The Bills coaching staff will need to be able to adjust on the fly because you know the Chiefs will throw some wrinkles in to give Kermit more time and space. 

 

Hopefully a Buffalo home game. I'll be a little less nervous. 

[Nextmanup]

17 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

Well, we can throw this defensive game plan out the window if we face the Chiefs in the playoffs. 

 

The Chiefs coaching staff will be analyzing film and breaking the game down on their own, but all this expert analysis is a bit unsettling. It just makes me realize the game will likely be much different If we play them again. The Bills coaching staff will need to be able to adjust on the fly because you know the Chiefs will throw some wrinkles in to give Kermit more time and space. 

 

Hopefully a Buffalo home game. I'll be a little less nervous. 

I don't think this "expert analysis" will impact what KC does at all.

 

They probably are unaware it exists.  

 

Will they do things differently next time we play, to adjust to what we were doing?

Of course!  That's how the NFL works, at least among the good teams.

 

The key here is that we found some ideas to help keep KC in check, and if they worked once, they can work again.  We'll still need to keep tweaking though.