Len Pasquarelli says....

[Buftex]

Reed `was also considered a product of the system, not a true game breaking WR

 

338495[/snapback]

 

 

If that is the case, than why did Jim Kelly get inducted in his first year of eligibility?

 

I see your point, but the passing game is perhaps the one aspect of the game that has seen the most dramatic changes in the modern era....aren't all receivers a "product of the system"? People say Montanna and Brady were/are "products of a system", that didn't/won't keep them out. Why should a different standard be applied to WR's? The HOF voters need to come to terms with the changes in the game. Reed may have benefitted from a system, but the Bills had a very balanced offense during those years. If I remember, they were virtually 50/50 pass-rush ratio every year, give or take a percentage point. If people only look at the stats (which are pretty damn good, HOF caliber!) and say that he was a "system" guy, than they really couldn't have watched him play a lot!

[Lori]

It appears though, that the WR position is the one that doesn't translate well from era to era. 

338494[/snapback]

Bingo. Counting this year's class, in the "modern" (post-World War II) era, there are 24 RBs, 21 QBs, and 17 WRs enshrined. Get this, though - James Lofton is the youngest WR in the Hall, and there have only been 5 WRs inducted in the last 15 years.

 

Let's dig a thread from the archives - the original question was about EMoulds' HOF chances, but some of the replies discuss Monk and Reed:

from last September - "Moulds and the HOF"

[OBXBILLSFAN]

Pasquarelli is a fat, mindless fool. Andre was better than a lot of receivers that are already in, and has both the numbers and a resume of great individual performances to prove it.

[TheMadCap]

Thurman Thomas will be in the Hall. He deserves it, he was MVP in 91 and lead the league in seasons over 1000 combined yards.

 

Reed may or maybe not. Perhaps his attitude has something to do with it?

[BRH]

What summed up Andre's career for me was the day he caught 15 passes against Green Bay in a rout of the Packers at Rich (I was there). I go home and think I'm going to see Dre's big day plastered all over SportsCenter. Turned out that that night Jerry Rice caught 16 balls. Guess who the announcers blathered on about?

 

That summed it up, and speaks to one of the reasons he probably won't get in. Rice has set his own bar so ridiculously high that it's hard to determine where the HOF bar stands now for receivers.

[BRH]

Anyway, I'd love to see Andre get in, but you know, even though he held the record for most SB receptions, I can't remember a single long one, or a single really important one. Maybe someone else can enlighten me.

 

For me the overriding SB image of Andre is of him throwing his helmet and taking that penalty near the beginning of the second SB. Yes, pass interference should have been called (on Brad Edwards, was it?) but that play cost us badly as I recall. And the book on Reed in SBs was to hit him early and often and he'd disappear. I'm not saying that's fair, just saying that's how it was.

 

Nobody can erase the image of the money performance he had against the Oilers in The Comeback, though. And he had that big game against the Oilers in 1988 (I think it was) when he caught the winning TD pass in a 47-41 OT win.

[Marv Levy]

I didn't see his ass catch all those touchdowns!!

[Lori]

Thurman Thomas will be in the Hall. He deserves it, he was MVP in 91 and lead the league in seasons over 1000 combined yards.

 

Reed may or maybe not. Perhaps his attitude has something to do with it?

338522[/snapback]

That's why Thurman's going on the Wall this fall - the committee wants to make sure he's honored in Buffalo before his election to the HOF. Thurm is 11th all-time in rushing; of the ten RBs ahead of him, seven are already in the Hall and the other three aren't eligible yet.

 

As for Reed - I've asked a few writers about said attitude, and they've all told me that never really had an impact outside the local market.

[Buftex]

Respectfully disagree. Monk was like money in the bank for any qb, always there to move the sticks. Like Rice, Largent, Joiner, Biletnikoff, and others etc.

 

Pure gold.

338508[/snapback]

 

 

Oh, I agree that Monk was great, and was money...but he played for so long, he was not the featured reciever for a good part of his career. When the Bills determined that Reed was no longer their "go-to" guy, they let him go. He never really had an opportunity to catch on anywhere else. He was signed late in the season by the Redskins, and was training camp fodder for the Broncos. He may have really had nothing left. Monk hung on...past his prime...so his stats were somewhat inflated. Both belong in the HOF, IMO!

[Buftex]

 

Reed may or maybe not. Perhaps his attitude has something to do with it?

338522[/snapback]

 

 

In the bigger scheme of things, Reed's attitude was pretty good, for a guy who was never paid a salary comperable to his production. His last season, he feuded with the midget, and felt like he was being squeezed out. He is not the first, or last player to feel that way, and I suspect, when all is said and done, there will be guys in the HOF with attitudes much worse than Reed's. A lot of Reed's perceived attitude problems, IMO, was born out of the fact that he never felt as appreciated, or respected for the things he did in Buffalo. Like Buffalo itself, Reed always seemed to have an inferiority complex. Some of the crap I have read about him on the wall give his perceptions some creedence.

[OnTheRocks]

i think the biggest sham(e) about the HOF right now is that Lynn Swann is in the HOF and Art Monk isn't.

 

i do believe that Thurman will be a first ballot, and i think Reed after narrowly not making on the first ballot will show his true colors and not be very gracious, and not get voted in for a couple of years after that.

[dundy249]

Let me start off by saying I am a huge Bills fan and have been since I could drool!

 

 

With that said I would have to agree that Reed is borderline HOF material. He was great in the Bills system but never had a "breakout year. He was consistent and played his part well.

 

 

He was not a game changer like Thurman could be or even Moulds can be.

[Spun]

One thing about the Bills offense in the Super Bowl years was that Thurman was not just a major contributor with his runs but he excelled as a pass catcher. This hurt Reed in the sense that somebody else was getting the pill but also helped Andre in that opposing teams couldn't just blanket Reed. The Bills went to four Super Bowls and Andre Reed was an instrumental part of that.

 

Reed should get in and in the words of one James Schoenfeld, Pasquarelli can eat another donut.

 

I have one question about B. Smith. I believe Thurman and Andre retired as Bills. Did #78 also retire as a Bill?

[Geo in Pa]

Reed has a long wait ahead of him before he gets in.

[bdelma]

Lynn Swann gets in. Christ give me a break

[bdelma]

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1985 buf | 16 | 3 -1 -0.3 1 | 48 637 13.3 4 |

| 1986 buf | 15 | 3 -8 -2.7 0 | 53 739 13.9 7 |

| 1987 buf | 12 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 57 752 13.2 5 |

| 1988 buf | 15 | 6 64 10.7 0 | 71 968 13.6 6 |

| 1989 buf | 16 | 2 31 15.5 0 | 88 1312 14.9 9 |

| 1990 buf | 16 | 3 23 7.7 0 | 71 945 13.3 8 |

| 1991 buf | 16 | 12 136 11.3 0 | 81 1113 13.7 10 |

| 1992 buf | 16 | 8 65 8.1 0 | 65 913 14.0 3 |

| 1993 buf | 15 | 9 21 2.3 0 | 52 854 16.4 6 |

| 1994 buf | 16 | 10 87 8.7 0 | 90 1303 14.5 8 |

| 1995 buf | 6 | 7 48 6.9 0 | 24 312 13.0 3 |

| 1996 buf | 16 | 8 22 2.8 0 | 66 1036 15.7 6 |

| 1997 buf | 15 | 3 11 3.7 0 | 60 880 14.7 5 |

| 1998 buf | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 63 795 12.6 5 |

| 1999 buf | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 52 536 10.3 1 |

| 2000 was | 6 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 10 103 10.3 1 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 227 | 75 500 6.7 1 | 951 13198 13.9 87 |

 

 

 

ANDRE REED STATS SCORE FRIGGING 87 TIMES IS THAT ENOUGH FOR THE HALL!

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

[Lori]

One thing about the Bills offense in the Super Bowl years was that Thurman was not just a major contributor with his runs but he excelled as a pass catcher. This hurt Reed in the sense that somebody else was getting the pill but also helped Andre in that opposing teams couldn't just blanket Reed.

Guy by the name of Lofton had a couple of pretty good years across from Reed, as well. This quote sums it up better than I can....

 

"Sadly, what works most against Andre is the failure of the national media to appreciate his numbers. He's perceived as a good receiver on a great team, rather than an outstanding player who helped make his team great."

 

I have one question about B. Smith. I believe Thurman and Andre retired as Bills.  Did #78 also retire as a Bill?

338554[/snapback]

Not to my knowledge.

[2003Contenders]

If placed in the proper perspective, Reed's accomplishments are HOF worthy WITHOUT question.

 

1. When he retired, he was in the top 5 in many all time categories, including #2 in catches.

 

2. At one time, he and Kelly held the record for the most QB-to-WR hook-ups.

 

3. Despite the lack of success in the 4 Super Bowls, Reed was actually very effective in the Big Show. Until Rice surpassed him in 1995, Reed held the record for the most catches in Super Bowl history.

 

4. Contrary to the Monk comparison, Reed's numbers were NOT just a product of longevity. He actually put together some dominating performances, including the Comeback Game against Houston and the previosuly mentioned 15-catch game against Green Bay, which was a record at that time.

 

5. While I won't say that he was as good as Rice across the board, I will have to say that he may very well have had better hands. Think back to some of the great.highlight reel catches that Reed made during the course of his career -- and remember the conditions that he often found himself playing in.

 

If Reed doesn't make it in, it will be because of his attitude...

 

If Michael Irvin gets in and Andre doesn't, then I am through even worrying about the Pro Football Hall of Fame, because I will consider it a fraud with unqualified people making the decisions.

[Kelly the Dog]

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year  TM |  G |  Att  Yards    Y/A  TD |  Rec  Yards  Y/R  TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1985 buf |  16 |    3    -1  -0.3    1 |    48    637  13.3    4 |

| 1986 buf |  15 |    3    -8  -2.7    0 |    53    739  13.9    7 |

| 1987 buf |  12 |    1      1    1.0    0 |    57    752  13.2    5 |

| 1988 buf |  15 |    6    64  10.7    0 |    71    968  13.6    6 |

| 1989 buf |  16 |    2    31  15.5    0 |    88  1312  14.9    9 |

| 1990 buf |  16 |    3    23    7.7    0 |    71    945  13.3    8 |

| 1991 buf |  16 |    12    136  11.3    0 |    81  1113  13.7  10 |

| 1992 buf |  16 |    8    65    8.1    0 |    65    913  14.0    3 |

| 1993 buf |  15 |    9    21    2.3    0 |    52    854  16.4    6 |

| 1994 buf |  16 |    10    87    8.7    0 |    90  1303  14.5    8 |

| 1995 buf |  6 |    7    48    6.9    0 |    24    312  13.0    3 |

| 1996 buf |  16 |    8    22    2.8    0 |    66  1036  15.7    6 |

| 1997 buf |  15 |    3    11    3.7    0 |    60    880  14.7    5 |

| 1998 buf |  15 |    0      0    0.0    0 |    63    795  12.6    5 |

| 1999 buf |  16 |    0      0    0.0    0 |    52    536  10.3    1 |

| 2000 was |  6 |    0      0    0.0    0 |    10    103  10.3    1 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

|  TOTAL  | 227 |    75    500    6.7    1 |  951  13198  13.9  87 |

ANDRE REED STATS SCORE FRIGGING 87 TIMES IS THAT ENOUGH FOR THE HALL!

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

338560[/snapback]

IMO, Andre Reed was a better overall WR than James Lofton over the length of his career, and the Hall of Fame is one award based on totality.

 

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=131

[stuckincincy]

Lynn Swann gets in. Christ give me a break

338558[/snapback]

 

I'm glad you mentioned that. His top year was something like 38 catches, with Stallworth and the rest of those members of those good teams setting him up.