2022 MVP: Mahomes wins. Allen gets 1 vote? (42 TDs, 19 TOs, 315 YPG & 63.3%% Comp %--EOY talk 54+)

[Billl]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm not ignoring the fact that Allen has more turnovers. In fact it's been widely publicized😂😂

 

Are you ignoring the fact that he also has more TDs over the last 3 years?

124 TDs for Mahomes

129 TDs for Allen

 

50 INTs and fumbles for Mahomes

69 INTs and fumbles for Allen

 

So Josh had 5 more TDs and 19 more INTs and fumbles over that span.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

124 TDs for Mahomes

129 TDs for Allen

 

50 INTs and fumbles for Mahomes

69 INTs and fumbles for Allen

 

So Josh had 5 more TDs and 19 more INTs and fumbles over that span.

How about that

[Meatloaf63]

38 minutes ago, Billl said:

So it’s unreasonable for me to say that Josh is likely a HOFer but Mahomes is clearly the better QB?  Both have been the starters for 5 seasons.  Allen has made the playoffs 4 times.  Twice he has lost to Mahomes, and twice he lost to a team that Mahomes beat the following season.  

 

Mahomes has made the playoffs 5 times.  He’s made 5 AFCCGs, 3 SuperBowls, and has won 2 MVPs.  Most recently, he received 48/50 first place votes for MVP.  Josh, with a healthy offense, just scored 10 points against the Bengals.  Mahomes, playing on one leg with his top 4 WRs out due to injury scored 24 the following week.  If he were to announce his retirement tomorrow, he’d be a first ballot HOFer.

 

They are both great players and it’s a hell of a rivalry, but they aren’t equal.  To argue otherwise would be unreasonable.

Who had better protection against Cincinnati?  And to say healthy offense we didn’t have Crowder or kumero. I’m watching the first game of the year and I think Crowder was a bigger loss than I thought he was. And Kumero’s blocking was certainly missed. But that being said the real difference is Mahomes is willing to take the short pass and the design of their short game is certainly ahead of ours. So until Josh is willing to take what is given consistently, Mahomes will be ahead of him. Collingsworth actually said Josh looked like Tom Brady out there, but as the season wore on, Josh lost that part of his game, it’s the biggest thing that separates the two. In the end, you can only play the schedule they give you, and play with the teammates you have. With the way the season ended and how Josh was playing, you have to give the nod to Mahomes. Josh could easily close the gap if he’s mentally capable of changing his game. 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Claiming that KCs receivers and backs are a lot better than the Bills.  Simply not true by any objective standard.

 

Kelce and Diggs cancel each other out for the most part and everything else is a wash.

 

 

Kelce is better at TE than Diggs at WR, I mean if you want to call that a wash be my guest but saying Juju and Gabe Davis are equivalent is really pretty crazy

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Who had better protection against Cincinnati?  And to say healthy offense we didn’t have Crowder or kumero. I’m watching the first game of the year and I think Crowder was a bigger loss than I thought he was. And Kumero’s blocking was certainly missed. But that being said the real difference is Mahomes is willing to take the short pass and the design of their short game is certainly ahead of ours. So until Josh is willing to take what is given consistently, Mahomes will be ahead of him. Collingsworth actually said Josh looked like Tom Brady out there, but as the season wore on, Josh lost that part of his game, it’s the biggest thing that separates the two. In the end, you can only play the schedule they give you, and play with the teammates you have. With the way the season ended and how Josh was playing, you have to give the nod to Mahomes. Josh could easily close the gap if he’s mentally capable of changing his game. 

While Josh is the one throwing the ball, I have to say Dorsey's playcalling must have something to do with it.  I think Daboll was better able to keep Josh grounded and not looking for the homerun ball every time.  It seems Dorsey tends to feed Josh's bad habits at times and they have to do better there.

[Billz4ever]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Kelce is better at TE than Diggs at WR, I mean if you want to call that a wash be my guest but saying Juju and Gabe Davis are equivalent is really pretty crazy

LMAO, Kelce played in 1 more game than Diggs did this season and had two more catches and 1 more TD.  Diggs had more yards.

 

In 16 games, Juju had 933 yards and 3 TDs.  In 15 games, Gabe had 836 yards and 7 TDs in what was considered a bad season.

 

Please tell me you have more than this to demonstrate KCs receivers and backs are much better than the Bills.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Billz4ever

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

LMAO, in one more game than Diggs had, Kelce had two more catches and 1 more TD.  Diggs had more yards.

 

In 16 games, Juju had 933 yards and 3 TDs.  In 15 games, Gabe had 836 yards and 7 TDs in what was considered a bad season.

 

Please tell me you have more than this to demonstrate KCs receivers and backs are much better than the Bills.

That's their production, I was talking about general quality because I thought that was the discussion

 

If you want to argue Allen gets more from less we are certainly aligned😂😂👍

[Billz4ever]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

That's their production, I was talking about general quality because I thought that was the discussion

 

If you want to argue Allen gets more from less we are certainly aligned😂😂👍

No, we are discussing the talent level KC vs Buffalo in the receiver corps and backs.

 

And you still haven't come close to proving KCs are clearly better than the Bills.  Not by a long shot.

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

No, we are discussing the talent level KC vs Buffalo in the receiver corps and backs.

 

And you still haven't come close to proving KCs are clearly better than the Bills.  Not by a long shot.

 

 

Kelce>Diggs is not controversial imo

 

Neither is Juju>Gabe Davis

 

But you are entitled to oppose

[Billz4ever]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Kelce>Diggs is not controversial imo

 

Neither is Juju>Gabe Davis

 

But you are entitled to oppose

You're wrong, provided zero stats to back up your claim.  Is Kelce the best TE in football?  Yes.  Does he produce more for the offense than Diggs? No

 

But you are entitled to oppose

 

[Billl]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Kelce>Diggs is not controversial imo

 

Neither is Juju>Gabe Davis

 

But you are entitled to oppose

When you’re down to arguing about the difference between Kelce and Juju vs Diggs and Davis, it’s probably time to admit that your position isn’t very strong.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

When you’re down to arguing about the difference between Kelce and Juju vs Diggs and Davis, it’s probably time to admit that your position isn’t very strong.

He knows it's not, but is pot-committed at this point.

 

Guess I also should probably not point out that Mahomes did what he did this year minus a guy that caught 119 balls for 1700 yards in Miami this year.

 

Wouldn't want to hurt his argument any further.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

When you’re down to arguing about the difference between Kelce and Juju vs Diggs and Davis, it’s probably time to admit that your position isn’t very strong.

That's literally the topic. I'm more than willing to say it's it's a difference of degrees and not kind.

 

 

[FireChans]

The bottom line is that this year is EASILY the closest comparison of Allen’s and Mahomes’ weapons. Whether one is slightly better than the other is kind of irrelevant. The more relevant point is the KC OL is way better than the BUF OL and that’s why they are in the Super Bowl and we are golfing.

[GoBills808]

Pot committed is a term for people who don't t understand how to play😂😂

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The bottom line is that this year is EASILY the closest comparison of Allen’s and Mahomes’ weapons. Whether one is slightly better than the other is kind of irrelevant. The more relevant point is the KC OL is way better than the BUF OL and that’s why they are in the Super Bowl and we are golfing.

I would also add lack of a Bills pass rush that has to do with a combination of injuries and a lack of personnel, but on-point there.

[Billl]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The bottom line is that this year is EASILY the closest comparison of Allen’s and Mahomes’ weapons. Whether one is slightly better than the other is kind of irrelevant. The more relevant point is the KC OL is way better than the BUF OL and that’s why they are in the Super Bowl and we are golfing.

This is a much more valid argument than the comparison of weapons.  Kansas City did have the better OL this year and last year.  That said, he made the SuperBowl two years ago with 5 different starters on the line.  

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

This is a much more valid argument than the comparison of weapons.  Kansas City did have the better OL this year and last year.  That said, he made the SuperBowl two years ago with 5 different starters on the line.  

And got smoked. Which is why they went out and focused on it (and nailed it tbh)

[Billz4ever]

Just now, FireChans said:

And got smoked. Which is why they went out and focused on it (and nailed it tbh)

 

And if we don't do the same this offseason, we'll get smoked next season too.  

[Meatloaf63]

30 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

While Josh is the one throwing the ball, I have to say Dorsey's playcalling must have something to do with it.  I think Daboll was better able to keep Josh grounded and not looking for the homerun ball every time.  It seems Dorsey tends to feed Josh's bad habits at times and they have to do better there.

Absolutely, I don’t think we can know for sure. But I have a hard time believing that Dorsey is consistently telling Allen to go long when shorter safer options are available on second and third downs. It is something that needs to be figured out. I am now watching the Titans game after watching the Rams game. It’s shocking watching this compared to how the last 8 or 9 games went. Passes out quick, 5 to 15 yards passes to Gilliam out of the backfield. Sprinkled in some runs, this set up the occasional long shot. And when they took the long shot it tended to be wide open cause we weren’t throwing it every other pass. Zack Moss was still annoying 🤦‍♂️ But the offensive strategy was completely different than the end of the year.