The future for both parties and realignment

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Right there with you.  I am Independent, conservative on fiscal and law and order, more liberal on social issues.  In my lifetime I've voted for more Republicans than Democrats, although I always vote for the individual.  The current republican party is not Republican, it is a cult devoted to one man.  Nor is the Democratic party the party of Truman, although at least they had the sense to put a more moderate guy in the White House than, say, Bernie.

 

Contrary to the Republicans, Democrats have not ceded control of the party to it's radical wing nor to a cult of personality.   They learned some bitter lessons back in the 1970s and 1980s about swinging too far away from the center.   There is far greater diversity of opinion among Democrats than among Republicans, from elected officials to rank-and-file.

I'm pretty far to the left both fiscally and socially, but I'm a pragmatist at heart (have nothing good to say about ideologues at either end of the spectrum), so I understand and respect that not everybody shares my views even on a single topic much less on a range of topics, and I'm good with compromising.   I'm a half a loaf is better than none person.   Biden wouldn't be my first choice for a presidential candidate but his positions on most issues are acceptable to me.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Love how "Libertarianism" makes a big come back as soon as a Democrat is elected president. 

 

Which country in the world is the premier Libertarian country to model off of? 

 

 

Never said go full blown libertarian.  Didn't say that at all.  Even tho me personally I'm finding myself more and more in their corner but it's like half a foot in.  

 

Definitely like Ron Paul.  Agree with him on maybe 50% of his positions.  

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Contrary to the Republicans, Democrats have not ceded control of the party to it's radical wing nor to a cult of personality.   They learned some bitter lessons back in the 1970s and 1980s about swinging too far away from the center.   There is far greater diversity of opinion among Democrats than among Republicans, from elected officials to rank-and-file.

I'm pretty far to the left both fiscally and socially, but I'm a pragmatist at heart (have nothing good to say about ideologues at either end of the spectrum), so I understand and respect that not everybody shares my views even on a single topic much less on a range of topics, and I'm good with compromising.   I'm a half a loaf is better than none person.   Biden wouldn't be my first choice for a presidential candidate but his positions on most issues are acceptable to me.

 

 

 

Ceded control, no not yet. But the rise of the far left should be as concerning to Americans as the rise of the amoral Trumpists.  

[SoTier]

21 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Ceded control, no not yet. But the rise of the far left should be as concerning to Americans as the rise of the amoral Trumpists.  

 

The "far left" of the Democratic Party sounds far further left than it really is because the center of the Republican Party has shifted so far to the right.  There used to be Republicans who were fiscal moderates and social liberals.   There used to be many Republicans who were fiscal conservatives and social moderates, but they're in seriously endangered in Trump's GOP.   Hell, there used to be Republicans who were fiscal conservatives and social conservatives, but those too are endangered.  

 

The current GOP is run by social reactionaries and fiscally self-serving individuals who put their own personal interests ahead of the welfare of the country, starting with the lame duck President.  They are not amoral.  They are immoral.

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, TBBills said:

If you cared about your kids you wouldn't be a nutbag.

The OP is the same idiot that posted the danish mask bull#### and never read the article just trusted some crazy guy on Twitter that retweeted it.... Same person that didn't think wearing masks mattered

 

 

Ok....idiot.  I'm assuming it's all good to personally insult people here.  Which is fine by me.  I just thought generalizations of a political group were fine.  

 

Individual posters no.  Just checking.  

 

 

But anyway.....idiot.....show me the evidence they do work.  Peer reviewed work on Covid and masks that show they "work."

 

Thank you.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Ok....idiot.  I'm assuming it's all good to personally insult people here.  Which is fine by me.  I just thought generalizations of a political group were fine.  

 

Individual posters no.  Just checking.  

 

 

But anyway.....idiot.....show me the evidence they do work.  Peer reviewed work on Covid and masks that show they "work."

 

Thank you.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

Article here shows 45 references, most if not all peer reviewed, showing benefits of masks.

 

Happy reading.

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

Article here shows 45 references, most if not all peer reviewed, showing benefits of masks.

 

Happy reading.

 

Yep.  Read it.  And there isn't any.  

 

These are the same people at CDC that concluded mask wearing also offers protection to the wearer.  

 

It doesn't.

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yep.  Read it.  And there isn't any.  

 

These are the same people at CDC that concluded mask wearing also offers protection to the wearer.  

 

It doesn't.

The above is what is scary about this pandemic and the political situation surrounding it.  The absolute refusal to accept things like data and science and facts.  

 

You have completely gone off the reservation if you are going to try and say that 45 articles showing benefits of masks are all wrong.  First, I guarantee you did not read all, if any, of the 45 articles.  Second, I have a 40 year career in basic and clinical research and review dozens of articles a year for different journals.  While I have not reviewed all of these 45 articles, I have looked at several and they are valid.

 

I will predict you read none of them, and can you comment on your background that allows you to interpret the now mountain of data backing mask usage as being meaningless?  I’d like to know what your qualifications are that make you more of an authority than hundreds of trained epidemiologists, virologists, etc.

 

[TBBills]

36 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Ok....idiot.  I'm assuming it's all good to personally insult people here.  Which is fine by me.  I just thought generalizations of a political group were fine.  

 

Individual posters no.  Just checking.  

 

 

But anyway.....idiot.....show me the evidence they do work.  Peer reviewed work on Covid and masks that show they "work."

 

Thank you.

Go read the danish bull#### you posted has nothing to do with it. I understand you are an idiot and trying to post something pro no leaks but in reality science is smarter than you.  

 

Anyone that posts the bolded are just plain stupid. Please show me any evidence that shows the opposite. You won't b.c EVERYONE with half a brain knows that masks help.

 

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yep.  Read it.  And there isn't any.  

 

These are the same people at CDC that concluded mask wearing also offers protection to the wearer.  

 

It doesn't.

So when someone posts facts you ignore it.... Yea you are an idiot.

[Big Blitz]

52 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The above is what is scary about this pandemic and the political situation surrounding it.  The absolute refusal to accept things like data and science and facts.  

 

You have completely gone off the reservation if you are going to try and say that 45 articles showing benefits of masks are all wrong.  First, I guarantee you did not read all, if any, of the 45 articles.  Second, I have a 40 year career in basic and clinical research and review dozens of articles a year for different journals.  While I have not reviewed all of these 45 articles, I have looked at several and they are valid.

 

I will predict you read none of them, and can you comment on your background that allows you to interpret the now mountain of data backing mask usage as being meaningless?  I’d like to know what your qualifications are that make you more of an authority than hundreds of trained epidemiologists, virologists, etc.

 

 

I'm just an ordinary guy.  

 

 

I'm taking his advice 

 

I'll assume you're going to tell me "they didn't know" or he "didn't want a run on ppe."

 

The same people that are telling us Trump knew it was airborne back in January.  Yet here is Fauci, who has watched Asian countries wear masks for years for a variety of reasons, the world's top epidemiologist literally mocking the idea of masking up on March 9th.  

Edited November 20, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Big Blitz]

*constantly told masks work*

 

*100 million people nationwide infected*

 

Ok.  Mask up I guess.  They're doing a bang up job.

 

Swiss cheese approach!!!!!!

 

 

 

For our next government mandate we will require no one to get within 6 feet of each other for the next 15 days....or forever really that works to.  

 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I'm just an ordinary guy.  

 

 

I'm taking his advice 

 

I'll assume you're going to tell me "they didn't know" or he "didn't want a run on ppe."

 

The same people that are telling us Trump knew it was airborne back in January.  Yet here is Fauci, who has watched Asian countries wear masks for years for a variety of reasons, the world's top epidemiologist literally mocking the idea of masking up on March 9th.  

OMG.  This has been gone over time and time and time again.  In March there was great concern that there was not enough PPE including masks for the front line health care workers (which in fact was true; the hospital network I work for had to ration).  Fauci indicated the public should not wear masks to be sure the front line health care workers had what they needed.  As scientists did more studies on how the virus spread they found it was primarily by droplets and aerosols, and that masks including cloth masks could help the wearer from emitting virus.  

 

All if which is covered in CDC publications including the one I referenced with, again, 45 references.

 

So you have no scientific expertise but feel you can discount multiple studies because you saw something o social media site.  This is precisely the problem we have as a society right now.  Refusal to understand and accept facts.  

[Doc Brown]

30 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

*constantly told masks work*

 

*100 million people nationwide infected*

 

Ok.  Mask up I guess.  They're doing a bang up job.

 

Swiss cheese approach!!!!!!

 

 

 

For our next government mandate we will require no one to get within 6 feet of each other for the next 15 days....or forever really that works to.  

 

Your whining about a minor inconvenience is getting annoying.  To quote McDermott, "back up or mask up."

[Big Blitz]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

OMG.  This has been gone over time and time and time again.  In March there was great concern that there was not enough PPE including masks for the front line health care workers (which in fact was true; the hospital network I work for had to ration).  Fauci indicated the public should not wear masks to be sure the front line health care workers had what they needed.  As scientists did more studies on how the virus spread they found it was primarily by droplets and aerosols, and that masks including cloth masks could help the wearer from emitting virus.  

 

All if which is covered in CDC publications including the one I referenced with, again, 45 references.

 

So you have no scientific expertise but feel you can discount multiple studies because you saw something o social media site.  This is precisely the problem we have as a society right now.  Refusal to understand and accept facts.  

 

 

This is why I know this is all a sham

 

 

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Your whining about a minor inconvenience is getting annoying.  To quote McDermott, "back up or mask up."

 

 

This minor "inconvenience" (and it is) has ruined businesses and livelihoods going on 9 months and counting.  

 

I said in March wear the freaking masks but we should be full open.

 

I think they do near absolutely nothing, but I'll wear one if it means we can all peacefully protest together.  

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

This is why I know this is all a sham

 

 

 

 

This minor "inconvenience" (and it is) has ruined businesses and livelihoods going on 9 months and counting.  

 

I said in March wear the freaking masks but we should be full open.

 

I think they do near absolutely nothing, but I'll wear one if it means we can all peacefully protest together.  

I’m referring to your multiple posts bitching at wearing masks.  Not the merits of lockdowns.

[snafu]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And I’ll add - libertarianism and “states rights” don’t really coexist.  Most of the GOP base believe strongly that states should have the power to enact their own broad restrictions on liberty (drug laws, abortion laws, voter qualification requirements etc.).  That is directly at odds with true libertarianism.

 

Why do you presume that States will impose broad restrictions?  Many states don't.  People move from one location to another all the time.  They do this because of more or less social restriction and or tax or healthcare benefits from one jurisdiction to another.  They do it to suit their needs or desires.  Local governments provide this specialization (or don't).  A one-size Federal government can't.

 

And you're forgetting a big reason to support states rights.  It removes the unnecessary duplication of many regulations to slim down the Federal Government. I don't really believe that the Federal Budget, the NYS Budget and the NYC budget (to name one where I live) are efficiently aligned, and there's a lot of excess and wast and frankly, taxes and regulatory fees are heaped upon each other.

 

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

If the GOP embraces classical liberalism they’ll get my vote again.

 

So who does get your vote?  Because the other major party isn't about liberalism.  If you aren't going to vote for the only party that could possibly give you a chance at what you're seeking, then do you go to the other party which would never come close to providing it?  

 

[snafu]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Ceded control, no not yet. But the rise of the far left should be as concerning to Americans as the rise of the amoral Trumpists.  

 

The far left isn't going to gain any traction in Congress at the moment because the margin is too slim and the moderate D's want to keep their jobs and the majority wants to keep its majority.

 

The way-too-powerful executive branch on the other hand...they've got to pay the progressives back for the coalition they made to get into office.  That's going to be ugly..

 

 

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The above is what is scary about this pandemic and the political situation surrounding it.  The absolute refusal to accept things like data and science and facts.  

 

You have completely gone off the reservation if you are going to try and say that 45 articles showing benefits of masks are all wrong.  First, I guarantee you did not read all, if any, of the 45 articles.  Second, I have a 40 year career in basic and clinical research and review dozens of articles a year for different journals.  While I have not reviewed all of these 45 articles, I have looked at several and they are valid.

 

I will predict you read none of them, and can you comment on your background that allows you to interpret the now mountain of data backing mask usage as being meaningless?  I’d like to know what your qualifications are that make you more of an authority than hundreds of trained epidemiologists, virologists, etc.

 

He didn't even read the study he tried to use to say masks didnt do anything... expect this guy to read anything even after he messed up in this thread and wont admit it.

 

43 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

This is why I know this is all a sham

 

 

 

 

This minor "inconvenience" (and it is) has ruined businesses and livelihoods going on 9 months and counting.  

 

I said in March wear the freaking masks but we should be full open.

 

I think they do near absolutely nothing, but I'll wear one if it means we can all peacefully protest together.  

You are the dumbest human being on this forum.

Edited November 20, 2020 by TBBills

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

*constantly told masks work*

 

*100 million people nationwide infected*

 

Ok.  Mask up I guess.  They're doing a bang up job.

 

Swiss cheese approach!!!!!!

 

 

 

For our next government mandate we will require no one to get within 6 feet of each other for the next 15 days....or forever really that works to.  

 

100 million nation wide? DO you have links to 100million? 

 

You prove every post how dumb you are.

 

 

Wonder what the number would be if everyone didn't wear masks.

 

 

You call doctors and nurses idiots for wearing masks? You call scientists idiots for wearing masks and telling other people to wear masks? I guess the idiots are the educated people and the uneducated like yourself are the real smart people?

Edited November 20, 2020 by TBBills

[Big Blitz]

24 minutes ago, TBBills said:

100 million nation wide? DO you have links to 100million? 

 

You prove every post how dumb you are.

 

 

 

We know why doctors and nurses wear them and it isnt so you dont catch the flu.

 

The CDC estimates that as many as 10 times the actual number we are counting has or had it.

 

CDC chief says coronavirus cases may be 10 times higher than reported

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/25/coronavirus-cases-10-times-larger/

 

Those are the facts.  Also, TDSBills, did you know this is how they estimate IFRs.  You can go on the rigged Google and search that.  After the first headlines come up of "Trump knew IFR rate and lied," and "Its not the flu, bro" and probably "Trump pressures CDC to downplay cases" all of which take you to Daily Beast or Vox, you'll eventually get a little science.  

 

You prove in all your posts you're fairly worthless to respond to. 

 

But I live rent free in your brain and that makes me happy.  

Edited November 20, 2020 by Big Blitz