There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[B-Man]

6 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Exactly.  People are so frightened into paralysis that there is actually a group of citizens advocating for this state of lockdown until there is a vaccine.  It's mind blowing.  

 

 

 

Quick reminder:

 

(and, yes, I am more than aware that they spread differently.............the point is you can't stop your life waiting for a vaccine)

 

KEY POINTS

• Researchers have been working on an HIV vaccine since the 1980s, but progress towards an effective vaccine has been much slower than anticipated.
• Finding at least a partially effective vaccine remains of critical importance for the HIV response.
• The biggest reduction in new infections would be achieved by a combination of PrEP, universal antiretroviral treatment for people already living with HIV, and a vaccine.1
• An HIV vaccine is a more realistic prospect today than a decade ago and an optimistic forecast of HIV vaccine availability is that one might be available by 2030.

[daz28]

Here's the thing.  The Constitution is certainly predicated on common sense.  It cannot possibly be a document of absolutes, because NOTHING can be written to cover every single possible outcome.  To believe that's possible would be to say that it could have only been written by God himself(who's made a few mistakes of his own).  When it comes time for the greater good of the people to override it during and emergency, the Constitution shouldn't have to be amended.  No one should have had to tell dumbasses not to yell fire causing people to trample others.  If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant".  I get that you can't trust the government, and I certainly don't, but that's not time to be playing that card.  We gotta get through this thing sensibly, and preferably as a united country. No one really knows what this enemy is, but rest assured it is real.  The other enemy that existed before this was a divided nation, and it's a shame we remain one throughout this.  

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Exactly.  People are so frightened into paralysis that there is actually a group of citizens advocating for this state of lockdown until there is a vaccine.  It's mind blowing.  

 

Yeah, some actually are. I saw perhaps the dumbest thing I’ve seen yet in this CoronaVirus thing; some people in Florida protesting the lifting of the lockdown ! What is that ? Stunning that anyone would protest their own freedom to go out or stay in. Pretty sure the government won’t issue you a summons if you decide to hunker down. 

[Deranged Rhino]

11 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Here's the thing.  The Constitution is certainly predicated on common sense.  It cannot possibly be a document of absolutes, because NOTHING can be written to cover every single possible outcome.  To believe that's possible would be to say that it could have only been written by God himself(who's made a few mistakes of his own).  When it comes time for the greater good of the people to override it during and emergency, the Constitution shouldn't have to be amended.  No one should have had to tell dumbasses not to yell fire causing people to trample others.  If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant".  I get that you can't trust the government, and I certainly don't, but that's not time to be playing that card.  We gotta get through this thing sensibly, and preferably as a united country. No one really knows what this enemy is, but rest assured it is real.  The other enemy that existed before this was a divided nation, and it's a shame we remain one throughout this.  

 

The constitution is predicated on Natural Law. As in, people are born with innate rights which exist outside of the state itself. The bolded section is anathema to everything the constitution stands for, not to mention this country. On one hand you're agreeing that government can't be trusted, but on the other you're saying they can decide when the "public good" overrides your innate rights. 

 

That's not liberalism. That's not freedom. 

 

That's supporting tyranny by any other name.

[Taraka]

[daz28]

18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The constitution is predicated on Natural Law. As in, people are born with innate rights which exist outside of the state itself. The bolded section is anathema to everything the constitution stands for, not to mention this country. On one hand you're agreeing that government can't be trusted, but on the other you're saying they can decide when the "public good" overrides your innate rights. 

 

That's not liberalism. That's not freedom. 

 

That's supporting tyranny by any other name.

No, I said we shouldn't have to be told when it's ok to break from it, and we should be holding them accountable not to take advantage of that fact

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, daz28 said:

No, I said we shouldn't have to be told when it's ok to break from it, and we should be holding them accountable not to take advantage of that fact

 

Who decides what's in the interest of the "greater good" in your mind? And why should they, government or otherwise, be able to decide to take away rights which were given to me by nature/God? 

[plenzmd1]

3 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

Man, what a crock of poop this is. Name me one economy that weathers a “ full stop”. Never happened before in this country without a depression attached. 
 

modest challenges... are you awake and alive? And you think this guy “ nailed it”! 
 

And where are the examples of not being able to provide healthcare by healthcare organizations? Based on nothing but fear, our healthcare organizations have been forbidden from delivering health care, but it’s not for lack of ability. 
 

I am in sales, do you need a new car or bridge today? 

[daz28]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Who decides what's in the interest of the "greater good" in your mind? And why should they, government or otherwise, be able to decide to take away rights which were given to me by nature/God? 

You sure like to twist things.  I said people shouldn't have to be told what's the greater good, I gave you examples.  You'd think people might be smart enough to see it when it's right in front of them, but we've become the nation of me/greed.  I also said, like you said, that it's our job to not allow them to.  Nature/God is subjective.  I know you probably don't think it is, but all people have different perspective on what their God is and what their nature is.  

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

You sure like to twist things. 

 

I'm not twisting, I'm clarifying because your statement was vague. You know who twists things? The government you're admitting to be untrustworthy while also wishing to empower them with the ability to strip away your rights whenever they deem it's in the interests of the public good.

 

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

 I said people shouldn't have to be told what's the greater good, I gave you examples. 

 

The "greater good" has no bearing on rights that I was born with. That's the point you're missing.

 

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

 Nature/God is subjective.  I know you probably don't think it is, but all people have different perspective on what their God is and what their nature is.  

 

You need to do much more learning on who the founders where, what they believed, and why they chose the words they did. The beauty of the document is that it sanctifies these rights regardless of your take on nature/god/or the divine. You are born with rights that did not come from government, but are your birthright. 

[Chef Jim]

18 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

There is so much wrong with this I don’t know where to start so I won’t. I’ll just ??‍♂️

11 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Man, what a crock of poop this is. Name me one economy that weathers a “ full stop”. Never happened before in this country without a depression attached. 
 

modest challenges... are you awake and alive? And you think this guy “ nailed it”! 
 

And where are the examples of not being able to provide healthcare by healthcare organizations? Based on nothing but fear, our healthcare organizations have been forbidden from delivering health care, but it’s not for lack of ability. 
 

I am in sales, do you need a new car or bridge today? 

I’ll take a bridge. One that will take me from Here to Away From Here please. 

[Boatdrinks]

16 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

Paul Field and others apparently have no idea of how America works, why it came to be, and not even a rudimentary understanding of the economy or the healthcare system. The US has plenty of healthcare capacity for those who contract Coronavirus. So much that it actually sat idle awaiting patients that never arrived; all due to government decree. 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Paul Field and others apparently have no idea of how America works, why it came to be, and not even a rudimentary understanding of the economy or the healthcare system. The US has plenty of healthcare capacity for those who contract Coronavirus. So much that it actually sat idle awaiting patients that never arrived; all due to government decree. 

And why a very good friend of mine who works in ER can’t get a job because we have....you got it. Too much healthcare to give. Basic supply and demand. 

[daz28]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I'm not twisting, I'm clarifying because your statement was vague. You know who twists things? The government you're admitting to be untrustworthy while also wishing to empower them with the ability to strip away your rights whenever they deem it's in the interests of the public good.

 

 

The "greater good" has no bearing on rights that I was born with. That's the point you're missing.

 

 

You need to do much more learning on who the founders where, what they believed, and why they chose the words they did. The beauty of the document is that it sanctifies these rights regardless of your take on nature/god/or the divine. You are born with rights that did not come from government, but are your birthright. 

I've told you over and over that I'm furious about all our lost rights, but you say I'm not.  I said we should be smart enough to know when to give them up, and strong enough to hold them accountable.  probably the 5th time I've said it, but you gotta be you.  That's twisting.

 

Sometimes the greater good IS actually protecting your rights.  Par example, you're a slave in 1850.  Hard to miss that point

 

The founders are old dead people who would think we are aliens.  They were wordsmiths no doubt, but they, like our politicians today, wrote everything in haste.  The Constitution is not a perfect transcript.  If you want to discuss John Locke we can do that, but he's also still using windows 95.

 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I've told you over and over that I'm furious about all our lost rights, but you say I'm not.  I said we should be smart enough to know when to give them up,

 

You realize this is crazy talk, right? You contradict yourself within two sentences. 

 

You're mad about losing rights while arguing we should give them up willingly. You're SUPER confused as to what's happening. 

[Chef Jim]

8 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I've told you over and over that I'm furious about all our lost rights, but you say I'm not.  I said we should be smart enough to know when to give them up, and strong enough to hold them accountable.  probably the 5th time I've said it, but you gotta be you.  That's twisting.

 

Sometimes the greater good IS actually protecting your rights.  Par example, you're a slave in 1850.  Hard to miss that point

 

The founders are old dead people who would think we are aliens.  They were wordsmiths no doubt, but they, like our politicians today, wrote everything in haste.  The Constitution is not a perfect transcript.  If you want to discuss John Locke we can do that, but he's also still using windows 95.

 

 

 

 

Describe a situation when we are smart enough to give them up?

[daz28]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Describe a situation when we are smart enough to give them up?

I already did, but I'll repost, and it wouldn't take a genius to come up with 20 more just like it pretty quick:

 

"If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant"

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I already did, but I'll repost, and it wouldn't take a genius to come up with 20 more just like it pretty quick:

 

"If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant"

Yes we should. 
 

I’ll wait for your other 19 doozies. 

[Deranged Rhino]

5 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I already did, but I'll repost, and it wouldn't take a genius to come up with 20 more just like it pretty quick:

 

"If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant"

 

If you KNOW there's a bomb, getting a warrant should be easy. You should be able to prove it conclusively if you "know", right? 

 

Again, you're arguing for the subversion of the republic. 

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you KNOW there's a bomb, getting a warrant should be easy. You should be able to prove it conclusively if you "know", right? 

 

Again, you're arguing for the subversion of the republic. 

No I'm arguing for common sense.  get out of the way, and let me defuse the bomb or a lot of us will die.  IOW don't be a dumass just to be a dumass