Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...sounds like the generally accepted protocol in the scientific community is a Three Phase Trial process......yet it appears that (if I read correctly) that Russia short circuited the Three Phase Process for their vaccine and is looking for legitimacy by injecting Putin's daughter....I'm confident the FDA would demand the Three Phase Process followed by extensive review before any approval(s).....however, could the "Russian vaccine" or others outside the US infiltrate via the black market with potentially irreparable harm?....

[Buddo]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...sounds like the generally accepted protocol in the scientific community is a Three Phase Trial process......yet it appears that (if I read correctly) that Russia short circuited the Three Phase Process for their vaccine and is looking for legitimacy by injecting Putin's daughter....I'm confident the FDA would demand the Three Phase Process followed by extensive review before any approval(s).....however, could the "Russian vaccine" or others outside the US infiltrate via the black market with potentially irreparable harm?....

 

In relation to vaccines, I'd say that a lot of countries worldwide, are trying to reduce the time it takes to get through all of the phases. Some of those countries will be able to test stuff on humans, before others, due to their state run policies. I think I read that the Russians, for example, are going to be vaccinnating their military, so they will get testing done that way. That is not to condone how they are going about it, but simply an observation as to how different countries will have different approaches.

 

Many poor countries, could easily persuade people to try a vaccine, for a relatively small (to us) financial remuneration, that included post vaccine care.

 

As to the availability of any sort of vaccine through 'black markets', I'd say it's going to be inevitable. Whether through the social media platforms, or the likes of ebay. People will no doubt be scammed, or put themselves at risk, due to either desperation, or stupidity. The traditional warning will remain true - 'if it sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is'.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

37 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

In relation to vaccines, I'd say that a lot of countries worldwide, are trying to reduce the time it takes to get through all of the phases. Some of those countries will be able to test stuff on humans, before others, due to their state run policies. I think I read that the Russians, for example, are going to be vaccinnating their military, so they will get testing done that way. That is not to condone how they are going about it, but simply an observation as to how different countries will have different approaches.

 

Many poor countries, could easily persuade people to try a vaccine, for a relatively small (to us) financial remuneration, that included post vaccine care.

 

As to the availability of any sort of vaccine through 'black markets', I'd say it's going to be inevitable. Whether through the social media platforms, or the likes of ebay. People will no doubt be scammed, or put themselves at risk, due to either desperation, or stupidity. The traditional warning will remain true - 'if it sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is'.

 

 

...great assessment.....I still think the FDA will stick to the Three Phase Trial protocol followed by extensive review before approval...rest assured that other countries will rush vaccine(s) to market before FDA approvals, assuredly to be followed by battle cries against Trump for (A). not demanding FDA circumvents protocol and/or (B). why he doesn't allow foreign vaccines in without FDA approval....stay tuned.............

[BillsFan4]

23 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...a bit confused about recent reports of Covid-19 detected in chicken wings and seafood, presumably frozen.....how could the virus exist in frozen state?......or if it was detected prior to freezing, how could the virus survive once frozen?...or did I screw this up?....

I read about that too. I also read that covid survived something like 2-3 months frozen (or something like that). 
 

I read that it can’t grow and multiply on food though, like salmonella (etc), making it quite unlikely that you will get infected from frozen goods. Just wash your hands before eating or touching your face.

 

They’re speculating that the new outbreak in New Zealand (17 cases total. 4 new cases caused them to lock down all of Auckland  - quite the difference from our outbreaks, eh? Some states have 20,000 new cases A DAY and just shrug their shoulders at it ?‍♂️ But anyway...) may have possibly been caused by imported frozen goods because the guy who caused the outbreak works at a frozen food plant (but it hasn’t been proven yet afaik and could have been caused by something/someone else)

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/can-imported-frozen-foods-really-spread-covid-19-here-s-what-experts-say

 

Quote

New Zealand reported its first case of COVID-19 in more than 100 days on Tuesday. It's possible the virus arrived via imported food packages.

The country's health officials suggested the new outbreak may be linked to these frozen goods because one of the infected patients works at a store that orders such items from overseas, Reuters reported on Thursday.

 

Chinese officials reported similar news this week: Traces of the virus were found on frozen shrimp and chicken-wing packages imported from Ecuador and Brazil, respectively.

They still say the risk is low.

Quote

But experts maintain that the chance of catching COVID-19 from frozen food is slim.

 

"It is possible, but the virus is not very stable outside the human body," Caitlin Howell, a chemical and biomedical engineer at the University of Maine, told Business Insider.

 

She added, "freezing or refrigerating the virus can help to extend the period of time that it stays infectious, which is why we think that outbreaks at meatpacking plants were occurring so frequently, but transmission via surfaces still appears to be rare – even when those surfaces are frozen or refrigerated."

 

So far, the Shenzhen health commission reported that no one who's come in contact with the frozen food products tested positive for COVID-19.

And they also mention this:

 

Quote

Even frozen, on a surface like that, you'll see the virus desiccate and dry out, which renders it completely non-infectious," Graham told Business Insider, adding that the "freeze-thaw process" could kill it as well.

 

What's more, she said, it's likely that Chinese officials detected viral RNA on the packages, which doesn't pose a big threat.

 

"While RNA is virologically infectious, practically it is not," she said.

 

 

sounds like they still think the risk is very minimal:

 

Quote

The coronavirus can persist on surfaces, but it's unlikely to make you sick

A person can get the coronavirus if they touch a surface or object that has viral particles on it then touch their mouth, nose, or eyes. The lifespan of the virus on objects depends on the type of material: One study found that it took three hours for the virus to leave tissue and printing paper, while other research suggests viral particles can live up to a day on cardboard and up to three days on plastic and stainless steel.

But the coronavirus typically spreads via airborne droplets (and likely aerosols as well), rather than shared surfaces.

 

Quote

Throughout the entire pandemic so far, there has continued to be shipping of products all over the world. If transmission via surfaces – whether frozen or refrigerated or not – were a major driver of infection, we would be seeing many case reports on it," Howell said, adding, "the fact that we're not suggests that it is not a major route of infection."

Indeed, the CDC says the virus "does not spread easily" from contaminated surfaces, though the agency continues to recommend that people "routinely clean and disinfect" high-touch surfaces just in case.

Precautions to reduce the risk of coronavirus transmission on surfaces

(Wash your hands before you touch your face or eat)

 

 

as far as why bacteria and viruses can survive so long being frozen, that’s not something I’ve ever really looked into. I think it’s just the nature of viruses. It’s why flu season is in the winter, not the summer (covid obviously isn’t a typical flu). I believe that Colder temps and low humidity allow the virus to survive longer outside of its host. Heat and humidity kill it much faster (see link below). Someone else may be able to give a more detailed answer.

 

https://aem.asm.org/content/76/9/2712.full

“Effects of Air Temperature and Relative Humidity on Coronavirus Survival on Surfaces” (from a 2010 study).

 

I know that there are even claims of viruses living 700+ years frozen in ice (some experts speculate that as the ice caps melt we could see new (old) diseases).

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250107/

 

Quote

How about 700 years? Remarkably, a new study in PNAS by Ng et al. (1) shows that viruses can survive intact in ice patches for at least this period and retain their infectivity.

 

Ng et al. (1) based their study on a 700 ± 40-y-old caribou fecal sample cored from a permanent ice patch in the Northwest Territories of Canada. From this sample, the authors recovered two novel viruses: 

 

Quote

Indeed, the pioneering work recovering the genome of the influenza virus associated with the notorious pandemic of 1918–1919 still serves as the benchmark for work in this area (2, 3). Although aCFV and aNCV are not the oldest viral genomes obtained, and earlier this year it was proposed that a replication-competent DNA virus (Pithovirus sibericum) could be recovered from Siberian permafrost dating to 30,000 y ago (4), they are undoubtedly some of the most believable.

 

[shoshin]

Mindset question. 
 

We beat the curve for hospitalizations a long time ago. Even in states that were relatively open, they made it through the resource crunch. Knowing that we’ve had much worse, endured much worse, and are seeing such awful consequences of shutdowns, why have we not bonded together in a positive way and gotten back to living? (See India)
 

Why are we as a nation so latched on to the fear? When did flatten the curve/prepare for the wave become never reopen? My downtown commercial area is still a ghost town. Restaurants not allowed to reopen for indoor dining. Voting being discussed as an isssue. Schools closed. 
 

People may see this as a cavalier call to toss all masks and go to 5 rock concerts. It’s not. But where’s the urgency to preserve our way of living and mental well being? 

Edited August 17, 2020 by shoshin

[ALF]

Will the flu shot cause lower resistance to covid ?  I don't believe it but the question is out there.

[shoshin]

33 minutes ago, ALF said:

Will the flu shot cause lower resistance to covid ?  I don't believe it but the question is out there.

Out there in conspiracy land. Nowhere actually credible. 

[ziltoid]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Will the flu shot cause lower resistance to covid ?  I don't believe it but the question is out there.

 

I thought I've read the opposite, but that was months ago.  In a pandemic, 3 months feels like a lifetime ago...

 

My dumb understanding - the influenza shot is a completely different animal to protect against.  The other corona viruses are common colds, and the flu shot does not protect against that (nothing does, yet).  But I would still get the flu shot, so if you run into the flu this winter, it shouldn't mess you up too bad.  And that is a good thing, because if you then run into the Covid-19, you won't already be in the ditch recovering from the flu.  

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

Mindset question. 
 

We beat the curve for hospitalizations a long time ago. Even in states that were relatively open, they made it through the resource crunch. Knowing that we’ve had much worse, endured much worse, and are seeing such awful consequences of shutdowns, why have we not bonded together in a positive way and gotten back to living? (See India)
 

Why are we as a nation so latched on to the fear? When did flatten the curve/prepare for the wave become never reopen? My downtown commercial area is still a ghost town. Restaurants not allowed to reopen for indoor dining. Voting being discussed as an isssue. Schools closed. 
 

People may see this as a cavalier call to toss all masks and go to 5 rock concerts. It’s not. But where’s the urgency to preserve our way of living and mental well being? 

To suggest an answer to your question, in our instincts of survival we have been focused on protecting loved ones from illness, suffering and death. It is natural unless you are prone to emotional reactions.

Providing shelter, food is primal. Partying us not primal.  It is natural to socialize in smaller family groups, we are not herd animals. 

The old Dem saying "it takes a village", strangely is now the fight song to extreme Republs.

Just a few thoughts!

[shoshin]

54 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

To suggest an answer to your question, in our instincts of survival we have been focused on protecting loved ones from illness, suffering and death. It is natural unless you are prone to emotional reactions.

Providing shelter, food is primal. Partying us not primal.  It is natural to socialize in smaller family groups, we are not herd animals. 

 

The virus frenzy has blown the priority of "protecting loved ones" out of all proportion. Looking at the below historical graph, Covid will raise this graph by ~2/1000...and that's in NYC, which got hit out of proportion to America... and most of the deaths contributing to the rise happened long before we had better treatments. 

 

 

Our primal needs were never under threat in America. The physiological foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy has never been at risk except maybe sleep from the crumbling of all the other layers. 

 

 

We need a lot more than gathering in "small family groups," though that is perhaps most people's priority.  

 

[Niagara Bill]

42 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

The virus frenzy has blown the priority of "protecting loved ones" out of all proportion. Looking at the below historical graph, Covid will raise this graph by ~2/1000...and that's in NYC, which got hit out of proportion to America... and most of the deaths contributing to the rise happened long before we had better treatments. 

 

 

Our primal needs were never under threat in America. The physiological foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy has never been at risk except maybe sleep from the crumbling of all the other layers. 

 

 

We need a lot more than gathering in "small family groups," though that is perhaps most people's priority.  

 

Safety is a primal need, and safety of self and family is as primal as it gets.

Ps

We have no treatments for covid19, only suffering, pain relieve and life suststainng ventilators or hydroxie if you are a believer is such nonsense.

As a result of some not accepting reality they are still in level 3....party time, most reasoned people went to level 1 or 2. 

If you are in a profession that allows separation you can still be level 4 or 5 if you maintain you bubble.

[shoshin]

25 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Safety is a primal need, and safety of self and family is as primal as it gets.

 

But here's the thing: You are statistically safe from Covid and that's the point. The average age of death is 80 with 2 comorbidities. In my state (PA), 70% of the deaths are in nursing homes. THOSE are the people we need to keep safe. And you can keep them safe without giving up on all rest of the heirarchy. 

 

Quote

Ps

We have no treatments for covid19, only suffering, pain relieve and life suststainng ventilators or hydroxie if you are a believer is such nonsense.

 

Not true. We were putting people on ventilators and having them rest on their backs in April. We have learned a lot since then. 

 

Quote

As a result of some not accepting reality they are still in level 3....party time, most reasoned people went to level 1 or 2. 

If you are in a profession that allows separation you can still be level 4 or 5 if you maintain you bubble.

 

I know of no one who is out partying except the very young, who are almost no risk at all. Back to PA, 11 people have died who are under 30, (0 under 20)--tragic every one but I feel confident that if those people are like most of the other stats, many were likely suffering from something else. I know there's concern about spread, there will be healthy people who get sick, and that's real but then let's keep the messaging going to be safe/mask/ distance with some judgment--but there's no reason for people not to be gathering when the consequences of staying apart is so dire. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by shoshin

[BillsFan4]

6 hours ago, shoshin said:

Mindset question. 
 

We beat the curve for hospitalizations a long time ago. Even in states that were relatively open, they made it through the resource crunch. Knowing that we’ve had much worse, endured much worse, and are seeing such awful consequences of shutdowns, why have we not bonded together in a positive way and gotten back to living? (See India)
 

Why are we as a nation so latched on to the fear? When did flatten the curve/prepare for the wave become never reopen? My downtown commercial area is still a ghost town. Restaurants not allowed to reopen for indoor dining. Voting being discussed as an isssue. Schools closed. 
 

People may see this as a cavalier call to toss all masks and go to 5 rock concerts. It’s not. But where’s the urgency to preserve our way of living and mental well being? 

we flattened the curve? When did this happen? I mean, we definitely should have by now. Some states have, but we are currently still seeing 500-1500 deaths per day, every day. We are seeing 20-40,000 new cases a day (New Zealand shut down for 4 new cases. 4! Other countries that are said to be dealing with “outbreaks” have new cases in the hundreds, not 10’s of thousands...). 
 

I also disagree on the hospital thing. Just last month we saw more hospitals being overwhelmed. California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, all had to call in extra nurses. Arizona hospitals had to start sending patients out of state because they were so full. Florida has to call in 1500 extra nurses from FEMA and also needed a huge extra shipment of Remdesivir. Texas hospitals also ran very low on space. Same in California iirc.
 

Barely Keeping hospitals from being completely overwhelmed is a super low bar IMO. We should be trying to suppress the spread of this virus completely, like basically every other 1st world country.
 

 

I don’t think it’s fear to be smart during the worst pandemic our country has seen in 100+ years. People don’t want to get this virus, or spread it to their loved ones. 
 

I also think it’s a good example of why we can’t just disregard the virus and reopen to fix the economy. Many people aren’t going to go back to their normal habits until they feel safe.

Outside of the 1918 Spanish flu, How have we had worse pandemics?  This is an enormous tragedy IMO. Over 170,000 deaths in just 5 months. That’s more than most years long wars this country has fought. It’s more than multiple wars combined.

 

Ill truly never understand how so many people just dismiss this pandemic as no big deal (edit - not talking about you, sorry. But there definitely are a lot of “just an average flu” people out there that I’ve run into or talked with). 

Edited August 17, 2020 by BillsFan4

[shoshin]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

we flattened the curve? When did this happen? Some states have, but we are currently still seeing 500-1500 deaths per day, every day. We are seeing 20-40,000 new cases a day (New Zealand shut down for 4 new cases. 4! Other countries that are said to be dealing with “outbreaks” have new cases in the hundreds, not 10’s of thousands...). 
 

 

New Zealand is absurd.

 

Quote

 

I also disagree on the hospital thing. Just last month we saw more hospitals being overwhelmed. California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, all had to call in extra nurses. Arizona hospitals had to start sending patients out of state because they were so full. Florida has to call in 1500 extra nurses from FEMA and also needed a huge extra shipment of Remdesivir. Texas hospitals also ran very low on space. Same in California iirc.

 

The hospitalizations are falling rapidly in all the hardest hit states, 3 of which barely have any distancing. That's kind of my point. Why would we give up our livelihoods when the system can handle the pandemic. That's the idea of behind having a great medical system. The idea is not to shut down life.

 

Quote

 

Outside of the 1918 Spanish flu, How have we had worse pandemics?  This is an enormous tragedy IMO. Over 170,000 deaths in just 5 months. That’s more than most years long wars this country has fought. It’s more than multiple wars combined.

 

Look at the pestilence graph above. 

 

Europe is better not because they did something extreme on distancing and the like--Europe burned through the disease to achieve some kind of herd slowdown to their new level. We are doing that too but it just takes longer because we're a big country. Of course, we may in the end finish at higher per capita death rates than the top EU countries but we still have a ways to go. 

 

 

I am not a fan of how this was handled at all from a prevention/leadership perspective but nor do I think we can justify living in this new fear mindset. If anything, a cautious/community mindset would be much better and help with a lot of other issues related to mental health, physical health, and long term consequences of this. 

 

Quote

 

Ill truly never understand how so many people just dismiss this pandemic as no big deal.

 

I don't know anyone who is doing this and it's this kind of black/white thinking that stops dialog. I'm not saying you said this of me but just noting it. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by shoshin

[BillsFan4]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

New Zealand is absurd.

 

 

The hospitalizations are falling rapidly in all the hardest hit states, 3 of which barely have any distancing. That's kind of my point. Why would we give up our livelihoods when the system can handle the pandemic. That's the idea of behind having a great medical system. The idea is not to shut down life.

 

 

Look at the pestilence graph above. 

 

Europe is better not because they did something extreme on distancing and the like--Europe burned through the disease to achieve some kind of herd slowdown to their new level. We are doing that too but it just takes longer because we're a big country. Of course, we may in the end land at higher per capita death rates than the top EU countries but we have a ways to go. 

 

 

 

I don't know anyone who is doing this and it's this kind of black/white thinking that stops dialog. I'm not saying you said this of me but just noting it. 

I was just coming to edit that last line and say I wasn’t talking about you. Sorry about that. 
 

Yes, our medical system has been able to hang on so far, but many hospitals have been overwhelmed. My ex works at a hospital that was overrun with covid. She said it was like a war zone. Like nothing she’s ever seen in her life. She’s still dealing with the PTSD, as are many of her fellow nurses and doctors. There are similar stories around the country.
 

Is that truly the bar we want to set? Just keeping our hospitals from being overwhelmed to the point where they have to decide who lives and dies (like what happened in Italy in March)? 
 

I don’t think Europe is seeing herd immunity either. They’ve been more unified with their lockdowns. They didn’t use a piecemeal approach like we did, where they let every place decide how they’d approach covid. 
 

If we’ve suppressed this virus, Why do you think much of the rest of the world has their borders closed to the US but open to other countries (that have actually suppressed the spread of this virus)?

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

But here's the thing: You are statistically safe from Covid and that's the point. The average age of death is 80 with 2 comorbidities. In my state (PA), 70% of the deaths are in nursing homes. THOSE are the people we need to keep safe. And you can keep them safe without giving up on all rest of the heirarchy. 

 

 

Not true. We were putting people on ventilators and having them rest on their backs in April. We have learned a lot since then. 

 

 

I know of no one who is out partying except the very young, who are almost no risk at all. Back to PA, 11 people have died who are under 30, (0 under 20)--tragic every one but I feel confident that if those people are like most of the other stats, many were likely suffering from something else. I know there's concern about spread, there will be healthy people who get sick, and that's real but then let's keep the messaging going to be safe/mask/ distance with some judgment--but there's no reason for people not to be gathering when the consequences of staying apart is so dire. 

Vents are only a treatment if you consider such a drastic step treatment. It often does more damage than good...it is last ditch effort. 

Statistically safe, seriously, in the US 1 in 64, and growing. So if you accept that let us consider stopping the outrageous amount of money we are spending on cancer since statistically you will not die from cancer.

What is acceptable, 1 in 25, 200,000, 400 000, or 1,000,000 dead. Vietnam war was unacceptable to most except war mongers, consider by comparison the deaths

I consider people who are gathering to be selfish...unconcerned about those others they may infect, mothers fathers grandparents, storekeepers, musicians, barber's and all the danger that medical people and first responders face. 

So selfish to have a beer, to take a selfie. Either they are so weak in character they need self gratification from peers to survive.

Creating a bubble of good friends should not be hard for the little darlings.

 

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

Vents are only a treatment if you consider such a drastic step treatment. It often does more damage than good...it is last ditch effort. 

Statistically safe, seriously, in the US 1 in 64, and growing. So if you accept that let us consider stopping the outrageous amount of money we are spending on cancer since statistically you will not die from cancer.

What is acceptable, 1 in 25, 200,000, 400 000, or 1,000,000 dead. Vietnam war was unacceptable to most except war mongers, consider by comparison the deaths

 

The Vietnam conflict didn't have kids out of school and cause 10% unemployment and countless shuttering of small businesses and keep people from going to the hospital and all the crushing health issues happening now. 

 

Quote

I consider people who are gathering to be selfish...unconcerned about those others they may infect, mothers fathers grandparents, storekeepers, musicians, barber's and all the danger that medical people and first responders face. 

So selfish to have a beer, to take a selfie. Either they are so weak in character they need self gratification from peers to survive.

Creating a bubble of good friends should not be hard for the little darlings.

 

 

A bubble of friends doesn't keep open the corner store. And it really doesn't send kinds back to school and a system that is vital to a lot of Americans. 

 

You can think of the guys having the beer at the bar as selfish. I just think of them as "not me," as I'll choose to not do that. But based on numbers, we are long past a time where the government should be mandating what the guys at the bar are allowed to do. 

 

If we see a rise like happened in NYC at the beginning that region can maybe justify more but so far, EVERY place in the world that got hit hard once has seen no serious rise since. Not one, no matter how strict or lenient they are. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by shoshin

[ziltoid]

Are these guys (fellow Canadians by the way) being selfish @Niagara Bill?

 

https://theathletic.com/1979206/2020/08/07/nothing-is-100-percent-safe-beer-league-hockey-is-back-but-should-you-play/

 

I would argue they are increasing their chances of making it thru this pandemic.

[Figster]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

But here's the thing: You are statistically safe from Covid and that's the point. The average age of death is 80 with 2 comorbidities. In my state (PA), 70% of the deaths are in nursing homes. THOSE are the people we need to keep safe. And you can keep them safe without giving up on all rest of the heirarchy. 

 

 

Not true. We were putting people on ventilators and having them rest on their backs in April. We have learned a lot since then. 

 

 

I know of no one who is out partying except the very young, who are almost no risk at all. Back to PA, 11 people have died who are under 30, (0 under 20)--tragic every one but I feel confident that if those people are like most of the other stats, many were likely suffering from something else. I know there's concern about spread, there will be healthy people who get sick, and that's real but then let's keep the messaging going to be safe/mask/ distance with some judgment--but there's no reason for people not to be gathering when the consequences of staying apart is so dire. 

Myself personally, 4 to 6 weeks of zero gatherings nationally (shelter in place) and the whole country would be on the road to recovery in my humble opinion. Ironically, the consequences of staying apart can be remedied by staying apart in a unified manner long enough to stop Covid 19 in its tracks IMO.

 

Everyone assumes they have it ( which you might ) and the here and now is the time to get over it.

 

 

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Are these guys (fellow Canadians by the way) being selfish @Niagara Bill?

 

https://theathletic.com/1979206/2020/08/07/nothing-is-100-percent-safe-beer-league-hockey-is-back-but-should-you-play/

 

I would argue they are increasing their chances of making it thru this pandemic.

Agree....big difference between activity exercise and standing in a crowded bar or concert so their peers can see the new dress. You can have a beer with you 4 best buds without being back to back with 75 other people you wouldn't pi?? on if they were on fire. A bubble of friends is necessary for most folks. But if they leave the rink and go to the local bar and stand back to back with others who do not respect social distance then they are selfish. 

Even pro ball p,Ayers are wearing masks. I bet we see some NFL players in masks.