SoCal Deek Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Good Morning from California! We've been wearing masks religiously since April. We have lots and lots of Covid deaths. While I’m 100% certain that wearing masks is better than not wearing masks. (It pretty much would have to be.) It is NOT a solution to this problem. California, with a population of 40,000,000 is proof that it only serves to take the edge off the spread. People are still catching the virus by the THOUSANDS here day, after day, after day, after day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Good Morning from California! We've been wearing masks religiously since April. We have lots and lots of Covid deaths. While I’m 100% certain that wearing masks is better than not wearing masks. (It pretty much would have to be.) It is NOT a solution to this problem. California, with a population of 40,000,000 is proof that it only serves to take the edge off the spread. People are still catching the virus by the THOUSANDS here day, after day, after day, after day. Yup. Masks, distancing smartly, keeping people's other health in good working order--this is about all we can currently do to help get through this. Keep the economy as open as we can and if people don't want to partake in something, let them. The biggest crime in this remains the schools. If schools were all open, 75% of the mental health pain, I believe, would go away. I'm 50: Cheat me out of some pleasures in a pandemic and I can deal with it. But don't do it to my kids, our kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/eric-trump-coronavirus-us-election-biden-rally-democrats-a9518981.html The Trump family told us that the virus would disappear the day after the election. I doubted it, then, but I guess they were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kemp said: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/eric-trump-coronavirus-us-election-biden-rally-democrats-a9518981.html The Trump family told us that the virus would disappear the day after the election. I doubted it, then, but I guess they were right. I think you missed the point. I believe you’ll see the COVERAGE of the virus change after Biden is sworn in. We’ll see if I’m right. If not, Joe is going to have some interesting explaining to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I think you missed the point. I believe you’ll see the COVERAGE of the virus change after Biden is sworn in. We’ll see if I’m right. If not, Joe is going to have some interesting explaining to do. If you believe coverage of the virus is dependent on Trump being in office, I think you're nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I think you missed the point. I believe you’ll see the COVERAGE of the virus change after Biden is sworn in. We’ll see if I’m right. If not, Joe is going to have some interesting explaining to do. Of course it's going to change. If you go from one guy who has mostly pretended the virus doesn't exist, and hasn't done anything about it or attended any COVID meetings for months to a guy who will likely make it his biggest priority, obviously the way it's covered will change. COVID coverage isn't extremely negative just for the sake of it. It's extremely negative because the Federal Government gave up trying to help the situation 6 months ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I think you missed the point. I believe you’ll see the COVERAGE of the virus change after Biden is sworn in. We’ll see if I’m right. If not, Joe is going to have some interesting explaining to do. I call goalpost move on this. It was supposed to disappear on November 4. That's passed and guess what: The virus is still a big problem. The virus will most assuredly start to become less of a story early in Biden's term. Vaccines plus end to winter will make getting the US economy back on track the main story by summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: I call goalpost move on this. It was supposed to disappear on November 4. That's passed and guess what: The virus is still a big problem. The virus will most assuredly start to become less of a story early in Biden's term. Vaccines plus end to winter will make getting the US economy back on track the main story by summer. Okie Dokie Its all perception then. The vaccine is the only thing that’s going to dramatically change any of this. Those anti-Trump folks will be the first ones to claim Biden solved it when the vaccine the Trump administration worked on speeding the development of is rolled out. It’s much the same as all political topics. The next administration always takes credit for the positives of the last administration and blames them for the negatives. This is true for both parties. But to say Trump hadn’t done anything is pure partisan nonsense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Of course it's going to change. If you go from one guy who has mostly pretended the virus doesn't exist, and hasn't done anything about it or attended any COVID meetings for months to a guy who will likely make it his biggest priority, obviously the way it's covered will change. COVID coverage isn't extremely negative just for the sake of it. It's extremely negative because the Federal Government gave up trying to help the situation 6 months ago. the states make their own decisions when it comes to the virus. the feds are concernced with getting the vaccine out and giving the states help when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, aristocrat said: the states make their own decisions when it comes to the virus. the feds are concernced with getting the vaccine out and giving the states help when needed. And that strategy clearly isn't working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: And that strategy clearly isn't working... yes because this is one of the most contagious viruses we've ever seen and you're learning that the only hope we've ever had against it is getting a vaccine. lockdowns across the world have slowed it some but won't stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, aristocrat said: the states make their own decisions when it comes to the virus. the feds are concernced with getting the vaccine out and giving the states help when needed. You’ve correctly summarized the modern American struggle. The left interprets the State to mean the Federal Government imposing policies across the entire country. The right believes that authority should be vested and wielded more locally. In a nutshell. And this core debate applies to way more than Covid 19. It’s at the core of just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Okie Dokie Its all perception then. The vaccine is the only thing that’s going to dramatically change any of this. Those anti-Trump folks will be the first ones to claim Biden solved it when the vaccine the Trump administration worked on speeding the development of is rolled out. It’s much the same as all political topics. The next administration always takes credit for the positives of the last administration and blames them for the negatives. This is true for both parties. But to say Trump hadn’t done anything is pure partisan nonsense! Trump did the things he needed to help fund vaccine research for sure. And Biden when Biden credited the companies and workers on Monday, Trump credited Trump (of course). Leadership and building unity around getting through this...no one will credit Trump for that. It was clear early on that we could have easily made this America vs. Virus and if he'd done that and messaged togetherness around that (if he had any credibility on talking about America for all of us), he would have won easily. But that has never been his approach and by the time we got to March 2019, he wasn't about to change his tune. The vaccine and warmer weather will change the death counts and hospital rates. Political party doesn't matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, aristocrat said: yes because this is one of the most contagious viruses we've ever seen and you're learning that the only hope we've ever had against it is getting a vaccine. lockdowns across the world have slowed it some but won't stop it. Right, but the US is doing as bad as any country in the developed world. The point is that other countries have been doing better. 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You’ve correctly summarized the modern American struggle. The left interprets the State to mean the Federal Government imposing policies across the entire country. The right believes that authority should be vested and wielded more locally. In a nutshell. And this core debate applies to way more than Covid 19. It’s at the core of just about everything. Again, the issue is that local governments can't adequately fight a global pandemic. They don't have the resources or local expertise needed. When a war starts, or a global pandemic is going on, this is the whole reason you have a federal government. When WW2 started and Pearle Harbour was bombed, FDR didn't leave it up to the states to fight the war individually. You have a Federal Government to deal with a crisis like this. Leaving it up to the states made no sense whatsoever. Edited November 19, 2020 by jrober38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: You’ve correctly summarized the modern American struggle. The left interprets the State to mean the Federal Government imposing policies across the entire country. The right believes that authority should be vested and wielded more locally. In a nutshell. And this core debate applies to way more than Covid 19. It’s at the core of just about everything. You're having a federalist vs. anti-federalist discussion, one that Washington/Hamilton/Adams/Lincoln mostly have won and Jefferson/Madison et al for the most part lost a long time ago. There is some interesting argument to be had on it and what's left of the 10th amendment but the Republicans believe in federalism when it suits them and the Dems are anti-federalist when it suits them. No party claims to bathe in ideological purity when it comes to federal/anti-federal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Right, but the US is doing as bad as any country in the developed world. The point is that other countries have been doing better. Again, the issue is that local governments can't adequately fight a global pandemic. They don't have the resources or local expertise needed. When a war starts, or a global pandemic is going on, this is the whole reason you have a federal government. When WW2 started and Pearle Harbour was bombed, FDR didn't leave it up to the states to fight the war individually. You have a Federal Government to deal with a crisis like this. Leaving it up to the states made no sense whatsoever. those two examples are polar opposites. cities fight the virus differently than rural counties. in war you normally have one enemy in a handful of locations. this virus is in every tiny town or city in america. you have to let local leaders fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Right, but the US is doing as bad as any country in the developed world. The point is that other countries have been doing better. Some. Deaths per capita. Just now, aristocrat said: those two examples are polar opposites. cities fight the virus differently than rural counties. in war you normally have one enemy in a handful of locations. this virus is in every tiny town or city in america. you have to let local leaders fight it. A national strategy on the virus makes the most sense. Dispatch the vaccine to the hottest spots, for application to those most at risk and/or most necessary to keep the country running. Nursing homes before pre-schools, doctors before teachers, teachers before lawyers, etc. To think that state governments have the expertise on vaccine distribution in a pandemic is naive. That's why the Trump administration has enlisted the Army to help with logistics of delivery, and hopefully those delivery logistics include more than just getting doses out in equal shares to North Dakota and California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, aristocrat said: those two examples are polar opposites. cities fight the virus differently than rural counties. in war you normally have one enemy in a handful of locations. this virus is in every tiny town or city in america. you have to let local leaders fight it. I'm pretty sure the virus is the enemy and fighting a war globally is just as challenging as fighting a pandemic only in the US. This is the whole reason you have a federal government. The outcome and goals in fighting both is essentially the exact same thing. Edited November 19, 2020 by jrober38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, shoshin said: Some. Deaths per capita. A national strategy on the virus makes the most sense. Dispatch the vaccine to the hottest spots, for application to those most at risk and/or most necessary to keep the country running. Nursing homes before pre-schools, doctors before teachers, teachers before lawyers, etc. To think that state governments have the expertise on vaccine distribution in a pandemic is naive. That's why the Trump administration has enlisted the Army to help with logistics of delivery, and hopefully those delivery logistics include more than just getting doses out in equal shares to North Dakota and California. yes that's why i brought up the feds and the vaccine. 5 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I'm pretty sure the virus is the enemy and fighting a war globally is just as challenging as fighting a pandemic only in the US. This is the whole reason you have a federal government. The outcome and goals in fighting both is essentially the exact same thing. jesus. the virus is hitting us at home in every part of the us. its more like rampant crime and you need local police to get it in line not the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, aristocrat said: jesus. the virus is hitting us at home in every part of the us. its more like rampant crime and you need local police to get it in line not the military. Again, this is what they're doing and it's clearly not working, so continuing to say that that's what is needed makes little to no sense. To put it plainly, the local effort is NOT working. Maybe it's time to try something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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