Adam Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Sometimes I wonder if the right approach has been taken by either side. Personally, I do NOT think abortion should be banned. I would like to see unnecessary abortions greatly reduced in number, but I think banning it could produce horrible consequences. I think some of the liberals have been goaded into the pro-life/pro-abortion agruement. I dont want to put words in anybodies mouth, but my guess is that they are not pro abortion in the literal sense, but are for the oprtion being there. There may be a few literal pro abortion people out there, but I doubt there are many. What I do not like is the use of abortion as primary birth control. Now, it would be ridiculous to pass a law based on that, no doubt about it. I think the best way to get that taken care of is through the educational system- AT A VERY YOUNG AGE. Get them to value what life represents, but knowledgable enough to understand there are some exceptions....and I think most of you know what types of exceptions I mean. Laws do not need to be passed for everything- sometimes ingraining youth with right and wrong can be more powerful than a law, while leaving the opening for the necessary cases. This could leave a proverbial loophole for someone to take advantage of, but its high time to eliminate the type of people who use those loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Abortion did not free women; it did free men. Women get to shoulder a life time of guilt; men are freed from responsibility. After all, it is women who choose. Women should have been more careful. It is unmanly to not seduce. I cannot believe that the women who chose abortion- some 40 million clumps of fibrotics- are not in deep depression but it remains politically incorrect to admit to this choice. Thus the question: if it is a good choice why do the aborter not rejoice, celebrate and commenorate the date of the abortion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Uhmm, I don't think there's anybody out there who says, "Woo Hoo! Don't use condoms because abortion's GREAT! F^%$ YEAH!" There's only those who believe that barring access to desperate women will lead to what there was back in the day w/ back-alley and creating two tragedies instead of one. Likewise, Dems aren't shouting that teen sex is a great thing either (with the possible exception of those Dems who are horny 18 year olds). It's just a matter of dealing with the reality of hormones and that no matter how much you try to push slogans into them, they're still going to have erect penii. If you believe the curriculum should be more than abstinence-only and uhh-sex-is-for-losers campaign-yeah-that's-it then I can only say watch how you vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I think some of the liberals have been goaded into the pro-life/pro-abortion agruement. I dont want to put words in anybodies mouth, but my guess is that they are not pro abortion in the literal sense, but are for the oprtion being there. There may be a few literal pro abortion people out there, but I doubt there are many. 294433[/snapback] That's why we (liberals) call it "Pro Choice". "Pro Abortion" gets tossed around by the same people who toss around "Partial Birth Abortion". Not a single liberal that I know would prefer using abortions as the primary line of birth control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Abortion did not free women; it did free men. Women get to shoulder a life time of guilt; men are freed from responsibility. After all, it is women who choose. Women should have been more careful. It is unmanly to not seduce. I cannot believe that the women who chose abortion- some 40 million clumps of fibrotics- are not in deep depression but it remains politically incorrect to admit to this choice. Thus the question: if it is a good choice why do the aborter not rejoice, celebrate and commenorate the date of the abortion? 295613[/snapback] Wow. Welcome to the board Randall Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Wow. Welcome to the board Randall Terry. 295654[/snapback] Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 4, 2005 Author Share Posted April 4, 2005 Uhmm, I don't think there's anybody out there who says, "Woo Hoo! Don't use condoms because abortion's GREAT! F^%$ YEAH!" There's only those who believe that barring access to desperate women will lead to what there was back in the day w/ back-alley and creating two tragedies instead of one. Likewise, Dems aren't shouting that teen sex is a great thing either (with the possible exception of those Dems who are horny 18 year olds). It's just a matter of dealing with the reality of hormones and that no matter how much you try to push slogans into them, they're still going to have erect penii. If you believe the curriculum should be more than abstinence-only and uhh-sex-is-for-losers campaign-yeah-that's-it then I can only say watch how you vote. 295623[/snapback] Actually, in your first paragraph, you are agreeing with what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Let me start by saying I side on the "right to life" side of things. I do feel abortion is wrong, and is murder. I feel that our laws should reflect as such. However, this is a very politically devisive issue. I am not sure this country is ready to adopt this point of view. I find it appauling that my tax dollars go to fund abortion. This needs to stop. The "choice" made should be well before pregnancy. Use of Birth Control, Abstinence, or other methods can be used. THIS is the choice we need to focus on. And by all means...eliminate federal government funding for abortion. One of the biggest political flaws in america is the lack of seperation of powers. What happened to the term "states rights"? It was all the rave 10-15 years ago. We are now the United State of America and no longer the United StateS of America. One letter, but worlds of difference. The majority of states lean strongly one way or the other.Lets turn this issue over to the states. Let each state allow or deny abortion as it sees fit for its state. It would appease the majority of people in almost every state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 it all comes down to one thing: at what point does an individual recognize a fetus as a baby? those who consider a fetus at any stage of development within the first two trimesters to be an 'unviable tissue mass' more easily accept the legality of abortion. those who believe that a fetus is actually a baby at any stage of development following the fertilization of the egg consider abortion to be an act of murder. it's worth it to take the politics out of it and do a little soul searching on this particular issue. I know plenty of people who could have been parents and decided not to go through with it. I have yet to hear a single one of them say that they think they did the right thing. maybe others here do know such people, but I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Dick Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 it all comes down to one thing: at what point does an individual recognize a fetus as a baby? those who consider a fetus at any stage of development within the first two trimesters to be an 'unviable tissue mass' more easily accept the legality of abortion. those who believe that a fetus is actually a baby at any stage of development following the fertilization of the egg consider abortion to be an act of murder. it's worth it to take the politics out of it and do a little soul searching on this particular issue. I know plenty of people who could have been parents and decided not to go through with it. I have yet to hear a single one of them say that they think they did the right thing. maybe others here do know such people, but I don't. 295681[/snapback] Do you actually search this information out? Or, do your friends volunteer this to you? The reason why I ask is because it sounds a mite morbid and maybe a matter of minding one's business unless consulted for advice. Whatever the case, for some reason (don't ask why) I have this image of someone, invited over for dinner, asking his hosts "Bob and Carol, how did that abortion work out for you folks a couple years ago?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 it all comes down to one thing: at what point does an individual recognize a fetus as a baby? those who consider a fetus at any stage of development within the first two trimesters to be an 'unviable tissue mass' more easily accept the legality of abortion. those who believe that a fetus is actually a baby at any stage of development following the fertilization of the egg consider abortion to be an act of murder. it's worth it to take the politics out of it and do a little soul searching on this particular issue. I know plenty of people who could have been parents and decided not to go through with it. I have yet to hear a single one of them say that they think they did the right thing. maybe others here do know such people, but I don't. 295681[/snapback] This board lacks a honest female perspective of your view, and question. Blzrul shows up sometime, Aussie and Cable also. With no disrespect to those gals, we just don’t have enough of a cross balance here on this subject. This has been brought up many times. Tracy Lee may be downloading, so she wont say…………. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 The majority of states lean strongly one way or the other.Lets turn this issue over to the states. Let each state allow or deny abortion as it sees fit for its state. It would appease the majority of people in almost every state. 295673[/snapback] Except that in one state, someone would be charged w/ murder and in the other they would not. Kind of puts the notion of common law at nought, and common law is the basis of our (and many other) country's legal system. What happens if a woman who lives in Alabama goes to, say, Oregon to have an abortion? Does she get charged w/ murder once she sets foot back in Ala.? This is something that requires a national standard, and w/ the contentiousness of the issue it was ruled correctly back in the 70s that those who choose to have an abortion can do so, and those who don't can do that as well. It'd be nice to have individual states do their own thing, and I'm sure it's been looked at in depth by people smarter than us and it just wasn't feasible b/c of the common law. Nevermind that it's extremely rare for the high court to go reversing big issues like it for the same reason why many of the programs started/decisions made by a previous president aren't immediately changed when a guy from the other side is elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Do you actually search this information out? Or, do your friends volunteer this to you? The reason why I ask is because it sounds a mite morbid and maybe a matter of minding one's business unless consulted for advice. Whatever the case, for some reason (don't ask why) I have this image of someone, invited over for dinner, asking his hosts "Bob and Carol, how did that abortion work out for you folks a couple years ago?" 295693[/snapback] I've discussed it with people because I should have been a father years ago, and I regret very deeply what we did. I want to know if I'm the only one who feels that way. so far, I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I do not believe abortion is birth control and whoever says it is has no conscience. It is a last resort. That said, I do not believe an abortion is murder. It is traumatic, it is sad, it is heartrending, all of those things. But most of all it's a last resort and a personal choice. It's one of those things we can't know - when does life begin? Your guess is as good as mine. I believe that when a life is viable, that is when the child could survive outside the womb, then killing it is taking a life. But something the size of my thumbnail, without a formed brain and awareness? I don't think so. So here's the deal: the above is my opinion, and I think that others are entitled to theirs. I don't try to convince people to think my way. But I will say that my dad delivered babies for 50 years and at first was against abortion...however when he considered the number of women he'd had to patch up after botched back-alley jobs, and what he saw first-hand in examining first-trimester "babies", he changed his mind. Nobody knows when life begins, or for that matter ends. God gave us free will and a brain to reason for ourselves, make our CHOICES and accept the consequences. I worry much more about the 6 million children who were born alive, and died last decade from hunger, than I do for the relatively small (and still decreasing) number of abortions in America. My opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Wow. Welcome to the board Randall Terry. 295654[/snapback] Is there something I said that was not pleasing to you or incorrect that you take exception to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 I do not believe abortion is birth control and whoever says it is has no conscience. It is a last resort. That said, I do not believe an abortion is murder. It is traumatic, it is sad, it is heartrending, all of those things. But most of all it's a last resort and a personal choice. It's one of those things we can't know - when does life begin? Your guess is as good as mine. I believe that when a life is viable, that is when the child could survive outside the womb, then killing it is taking a life. But something the size of my thumbnail, without a formed brain and awareness? I don't think so. So here's the deal: the above is my opinion, and I think that others are entitled to theirs. I don't try to convince people to think my way. But I will say that my dad delivered babies for 50 years and at first was against abortion...however when he considered the number of women he'd had to patch up after botched back-alley jobs, and what he saw first-hand in examining first-trimester "babies", he changed his mind. Nobody knows when life begins, or for that matter ends. God gave us free will and a brain to reason for ourselves, make our CHOICES and accept the consequences. I worry much more about the 6 million children who were born alive, and died last decade from hunger, than I do for the relatively small (and still decreasing) number of abortions in America. My opinion. 295723[/snapback] I share a lot of your opinions. I do think its ok to try to persuade people- its when it goes to trying to FORCE them to see things your way is going too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I share a lot of your opinions. I do think its ok to try to persuade people- its when it goes to trying to FORCE them to see things your way is going too far. 296178[/snapback] Because the "Pro-life" proponents don't try to do that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Because the "Pro-life" proponents don't try to do that.... 296244[/snapback] Except when they're murdering doctors in the name of life. </irony> I know you're being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Thus the question: if it is a good choice why do the aborter not rejoice, celebrate and commenorate the date of the abortion? 295613[/snapback] Not all good decisions are worth celebrating. Question: How does one not know that already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Do you actually search this information out? Or, do your friends volunteer this to you? The reason why I ask is because it sounds a mite morbid and maybe a matter of minding one's business unless consulted for advice. Whatever the case, for some reason (don't ask why) I have this image of someone, invited over for dinner, asking his hosts "Bob and Carol, how did that abortion work out for you folks a couple years ago?" 295693[/snapback] the point is not WHY you should not be asked why you have that image but why the query would be insensitive. If it is possible to understand the grief of the parent it follows that the discomfort of the embryo/fetus/incompletely formed matter be considered. And if it was a moral choice then one should have no difficulty defending in fact extolling its justness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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