BuffaloRush Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Miami 2013 he absolutely dominated. As he did the home win against Carolina (EJ comeback game). He had a monster game at Miami in 2014 as well even though we lost. The 2014 Green Bay game he was outstanding, and in fact even in 2015 under Rex when he was not great by any means he was probably the biggest single reason we beat Tennessee. In at least 3 of those games listed above he was the definition of "difference maker" because he literally made plays that were the difference in the game. Arguing Mario Williams was not a difference maker for the Bills is pure, unadulterated fantasy. 2013 and 2014 he was the one single elite player on the team. As for Buddy overall.... I said he was a failure and criricised him heavily for not doing enough to find a Quarterback. And if you read my post I explained why I felt he put us a bit back on track..... and it links to arguments we have had before. When Buddy was here we had a single football decision maker - Buddy. He cleaned up the cap and left a nucleus of decent young players. It could have worked even if it didn't. What came before - the Modrak mess era could never have worked. It was doomed to fail year after year after year because the process was wrong and the structure was wrong. Simply I will put it like this... under Buddy we operated like an NFL team just a not very successful one. The Modrak era we were not even behaving like an NFL franchise. We were bush league. I would be curious to hear how the rest of fans feel about Mario. Because I don’t think the Bills got enough of an ROI on the most deal he signed. Yes it was big for the organization to land the biggest free agent in the offseason, but in the end he didn’t make much of a difference until 2014. And even then it seemed like guys like Marcel and Jerry were consaitantely the ones getting after the QB more often. It certainly seems like you distanced youself from the initial comment about Buddy Nix. Now he only got them on the track “a bit” because of the structure of the front office? Either way, it’s hard to argue in favor for a GM that built a team that finished 16-32 in 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Ok so Buddy put the Bills back on track by going 16-32 over three season? Explain how three losing season puts the team back on track, when they failed the make the playoffs with a team that had few hold overs from the Nix era. As far as Mario - yes the numbers were good. But can you name me one memorable game where Mario completely took over and made the play of the game? You really can’t. In comparison I can name multiple games with JJ Watt or even a Khalil Mack has. Also take a look at the Bills defenses with Mario on the team. They basically had one good year in 2014, right after Buddy left. That’s why I don’t think he was worth that huge deal Buddy signed him to. Who’s living in a fantasy world now, Chester? Well according to @GunnerBill the Bills didn’t need a player like Mack because Mario Williams was such a difference maker Explain? Be glad to. Nix presided over a near-complete rebuild. That means you're going to lose for a while. A very small percentage of teams in that position do well in the third year but probably 75% still suck. It generally takes three years of suckage to get past the effects of a complete rebuild. Hope that makes it clear. During those three years Nix put together a roster that in the fourth year and fifth years was a very strong defence with almost all Nix players. The whole roster was really pretty decent when he left. With one major, painful exception at QB, an exception that is a lot of the reason that Buddy can't be considered very good overall. That and bringing in Whaley who turned out to be pretty terrible. QB and the new GM were the main things that tarnish his otherwise very solid legacy. His coaching decisions also had some problems but nobody wanted to come here at that point. He was handcuffed. 2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: I would be curious to hear how the rest of fans feel about Mario. Because I don’t think the Bills got enough of an ROI on the most deal he signed. Yes it was big for the organization to land the biggest free agent in the offseason, but in the end he didn’t make much of a difference until 2014. And even then it seemed like guys like Marcel and Jerry were consaitantely the ones getting after the QB more often. It certainly seems like you distanced youself from the initial comment about Buddy Nix. Now he only got them on the track “a bit” because of the structure of the front office? Either way, it’s hard to argue in favor for a GM that built a team that finished 16-32 in 3 seasons. Mario was very very good. Not quite worth the contract he signed, but not that far away either. Till that last year anyway. Edited March 24, 2018 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Nix was an atrocious GM, and should have never been in that position to begin with. Ralph and Russ “scanned a list of names” and only interviewed two in house candidates: failed Jauron holdover, JohnGuy, and scout Buddy Nix. Nix was atrocious. 2010 - Extended Kelsay, flipped the defense to a 3-4 for 9 weeks, and blew most of the draft on the switch (none of those players worked out), hired Chan Gailey who was out of football, traded Lynch for chump change and decided to keep both holdover QBs on the roster. He also failed on his second Head Coach choice in Marrone, and never seriously attempted to fix the Quarterback position, all the while the defense kept flip flopping back and forth from a 4-3 to a 3-4 with disastrous results. Edited March 24, 2018 by Straight Hucklebuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 He had his flaws, but he did build that great defense Whaley got credit for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Explain? Be glad to. Nix presided over a near-complete rebuild. That means you're going to lose for a while. A very small percentage of teams in that position do well in the third year but probably 75% still suck. It generally takes three years of suckage to get past the effects of a complete rebuild. Hope that makes it clear. During those three years Nix put together a roster that in the fourth year and fifth years was a very strong defence with almost all Nix players. The whole roster was really pretty decent when he left. With one major, painful exception at QB, an exception that is a lot of the reason that Buddy can't be considered very good overall. That and bringing in Whaley who turned out to be pretty terrible. QB and the new GM were the main things that tarnish his otherwise very solid legacy. His coaching decisions also had some problems but nobody wanted to come here at that point. He was handcuffed. Mario was very very good. Not quite worth the contract he signed, but not that far away either. Till that last year anyway. But it wasn’t a complete rebuild. Buddy took over a fairly young team with a decent defense in place that was nearly .500 every season. I think you are being way to lenient on GM’s too. Most GM’s that take over even the worst teams can show quantitative progress over the span of 3 seasons. If they don’t show improvement - they get fired. The rest keep their jobs. Buddy could not. His teams failed the eclipse the win total of the previous administration which was considered a “dumpster fire.” Buddy did an ok job drafting ting and made a few other good moves. I think his run as GM was more of a failure than it was a success. 16-32 is not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Buddy was far from perfect but he started to turn the extreme lack of talent around. We like to judge gm's against the mythical perfect gm's , they don't exsist . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 23 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: It certainly seems like you distanced youself from the initial comment about Buddy Nix. Now he only got them on the track “a bit” because of the structure of the front office? Either way, it’s hard to argue in favor for a GM that built a team that finished 16-32 in 3 seasons. I didn't distance myself from my comments. That was exactly my argument in the first place. Buddy got us back to operating like a proper NFL team - that is to some extent back on track. I said he was a failure as GM right in my original post on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) On 3/25/2018 at 2:19 AM, BuffaloRush said: But it wasn’t a complete rebuild. Buddy took over a fairly young team with a decent defense in place that was nearly .500 every season. I think you are being way to lenient on GM’s too. Most GM’s that take over even the worst teams can show quantitative progress over the span of 3 seasons. If they don’t show improvement - they get fired. The rest keep their jobs. Buddy could not. His teams failed the eclipse the win total of the previous administration which was considered a “dumpster fire.” Buddy did an ok job drafting ting and made a few other good moves. I think his run as GM was more of a failure than it was a success. 16-32 is not good Yes, it really was a complete rebuild. Or as close as makes no difference. And yeah the team before had been nearly .500 consistently. That's the best reason for a rebuild. Keep reloading and you'll stay .500 and never get the high draft picks you need to bring in a QB in particular and impact players in general. It makes a successful rebuild harder, because your first draft is around #10 or #11. Much nicer if the last guy left you an absolute tire fire, but consistent mediocrity doesn't argue against a rebuild at all. And no, the Jauron Bills were never a dumpster fire. They were a classic example of sustained mediocrity, all 7-9s except for one 6-10. Yeah, again, three years is generally enough time for a GM to show progress. The exception is when there's a complete rebuild. And I don't think I am lenient on GMs. I think most of ours have sucked since Polian, Nix being the best (or second-best behind Butler, who at least knew players but absolutely destroyed the cap) of a bad bunch and even he wasn't great, just solid. (Not including Beane in the group as he still gets an incomplete.) Bringing in the bad Whaley being maybe the biggest hit to Nix's legacy here. Edited March 25, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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