Punching Bag Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The question comes down to "What is a Quarterback?" QB has a lot of parts some Jimbo really illustrated which some of his more celebrated peers did not do as well. Throwing the ball, number 1 job of QB, but can he make all of the throws, throw when multiple defense players are draped on him? Clean pockets are rare things. Can QB read defenses quickly and make the right throw at right time and have wisdom to know whether this is time to take chances? A forty yard interception is basically a punt but only if it occurs on third or fourth down otherwise throw away and try again. Can the quarterback do the back part of job when needed? Can he pick up a block for RB, tackle a player if necessary on interception, etc? This is where Jimbo was best in game Anthony Phillips is a good reference. Can the quarterback be a good leader and motivate players when things are going well even if it is to suppress his instincts and take what is given and rely on running game? Can QB use more than his body - his mind, his voice, etc to get defenses to do what he wants rather than react. Manning was one of best at that. Can a QB make a fake effectively fooling defenses giving RBs extra time or space? Marino was one of worst at that and RBs got killed. Can a QB make yards with his feet and make plays out of broken plays buying time to either throw or run? There are other parts; how you value those parts determines who you consider the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: I think EJ might've been the worst QB of the drought. Of that, we can all agree. Honestly, they all suck. It's like picking out the cream of the crap.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Assuming my numbers are right after the first 8 games in a Bills uniform Bledsoe was: 18-22, completed 57.87% of his passes, threw for 191.28 yards per game, 39 TDs, 38 INTs and lost 13 fumbles. He was sacked about a zillion times too and made no plays with his feet to offset it. The guys was TERRIBLE. Anyone complaining about TT not throwing the ball in the pocket never saw Bledsoe in 2003. PAT - PAT - PAT - SACK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Rico said: Anyone complaining about TT not throwing the ball in the pocket never saw Bledsoe in 2003. PAT - PAT - PAT - SACK! Yeah, and it wasn’t like he ever stepped around a guy an made a play. He would tuck the ball when a guy got within 5 yards of him. Drew Bledsoe sucked! He is the only guy that I can think of that Bills fans overrate from the drought. We overrate Freddy some but it is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Never doubled down at any point. I asked to see it and you showed it. They finished 1 TD & a 2 pt. conversion out of the top 10. That is with EJ leading them to 5 TDs in 2 games (below their average). Landry Jones and Mike Vick started 5 games for Pittsburgh that year and they still had more points than us. AJ McCarron had to start 3 games for the Bengals that year and they still had more points than us. EJ was a trashbag, but it's time to stop blaming him for Tyrod's inabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Landry Jones and Mike Vick started 5 games for Pittsburgh that year and they still had more points than us. AJ McCarron had to start 3 games for the Bengals that year and they still had more points than us. EJ was a trashbag, but it's time to stop blaming him for Tyrod's inabilities. Again, they were top 10 DVOA in 2015 & 2016 and top 12 scoring in 2015 (with EJ scoring less than the other games) and top 10 in 2016 (with EJ playing 1 game with 1 offensive score). If that is what you are considering failure than I don’t know what to tell you. If you want to talk about this year’s struggles go for it. To complain about offenses that were successful just makes you a hater. That comes as no surprise to anyone here though. That’s become your MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Again, they were top 10 DVOA in 2015 & 2016 and top 12 scoring in 2015 (with EJ scoring less than the other games) and top 10 in 2016 (with EJ playing 1 game with 1 offensive score). If that is what you are considering failure than I don’t know what to tell you. If you want to talk about this year’s struggles go for it. To complain about offenses that were successful just makes you a hater. That comes as no surprise to anyone here though. That’s become your MO. I'm not complaining about the offenses. Talk about shifting the goalposts, again! Is this your new MO? Edited February 5, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: I'm not complaining about the offenses. Talk about shifting the goalposts, again! Is this your new MO? This started when you said it’s orton and it’s not close. I said it’s Tyrod and it’s not close. You bragged about Orton dragging the offense to 18th in points. Yet Tyrod had them 12th and 10th and it would have been higher if he played all 32 games. It’s okay to be wrong on here. We all are sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: This started when you said it’s orton and it’s not close. I said it’s Tyrod and it’s not close. You bragged about Orton dragging the offense to 18th in points. Yet Tyrod had them 12th and 10th and it would have been higher if he played all 32 games. It’s okay to be wrong on here. We all are sometimes. Tyrod got a HoF RB, OROY candidate RB, a #2 weapon in Harvin, a Pro Bowl G in Incognito, highest paid UFA TE in Clay, and Gillislee. And the offense moved up 6 spots. Remember when you called them the same offense? Also, Orton played less that TT did. Why doesn't he get credit for it "being higher if he played all (16) games?" Oh, that's right. Because you're addicted to being wrong. Edited February 5, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, jmc12290 said: Tyrod got a HoF RB, OROY candidate RB, a #2 weapon in Harvin, a Pro Bowl G in Incognito, highest paid UFA TE in Clay, and Gillislee. And the offense moved up 6 spots. Remember when you called them the same offense? Orton played with Watkins, Woods, Hogan and Goodwin (as did Tyrod in 2015). Harvin never played!! Is that how you are going to twist it? Clay is okay. Incognito was an upgrade for sure and obviously Shady. Karlos Williams and MG are JAGS. They were benefactors of a good offense. Either way the answer is that Orton was the best drought QB. Tyrod isn’t a part of the conversation as he was a playoff QB. I’d have it Orton - Fitz - Everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Orton played with Watkins, Woods, Hogan and Goodwin (as did Tyrod in 2015). Harvin never played!! Is that how you are going to twist it? Clay is okay. Incognito was an upgrade for sure and obviously Shady. Karlos Williams and MG are JAGS. They were benefactors of a good offense. Either way the answer is that Orton was the best drought QB. Tyrod isn’t a part of the conversation as he was a playoff QB. I’d have it Orton - Fitz - Everyone else Is Clay better than Scott Chandler? Is 5 games of Harvin better than zero games of Harvin? Were Karlos and MG better than Boobie Dixon and Bryce Brown? You're right. Orton was the best drought QB. As well as the best QB since Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: Is Clay better than Scott Chandler? Yes Is 5 games of Harvin better than zero games of Harvin? No Were Karlos and MG better than Boobie Dixon and Bryce Brown? They had a better run design with Roman and Lynn. The players were in the same league. You're right. Orton was the best drought QB. As well as the best QB since Kelly. Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Were Karlos and MG better than Boobie Dixon and Bryce Brown? They had a better run design with Roman and Lynn. The players were in the same league. HAHAHAHAHA NOOOOOO Karlos, in 11 games in 2015, almost had as many TD's as Boobie Dixon had in a 6 year career! Karlos' rookie year he broke 500 yards, something Dixon never did ONCE. Your opinions are SO BAD Edited February 5, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: HAHAHAHAHA NOOOOOO Karlos, in 11 games in 2015, almost had as many TD's as Boobie Dixon had in a 6 year career! Your opinions are SO BAD He ran behind the better line and with the better scheme. Is Karlos better than Boobie, of course. He also has been suspended multiple times and was out of the league in just over a year. The next guy in was every bit as effective. You could have plugged any back into that system and they would have had success. Edited February 5, 2018 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: He ran behind the better line and with the better scheme. Is Karlos better than Boogie, of course. He also has been suspended multiple times and was out of the league in just over a year. The next guy in was every bit as effective. You could have plugged any back into that system and they would have had success. Yeah, just like Boobie who was "in the same league." Oh wait, no. Boobie averaged 2.1 YPC in 2015. Boom Herron averaged 3.4. Whose man is this? Somebody get your man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Yeah, just like Boobie who was "in the same league." Oh wait, no. Boobie averaged 2.1 YPC in 2015. Boom Herron averaged 3.4. Whose man is this? Somebody get your man! They combined for 32 carries on the season!! That’s some sample size that you are using. Boobie came back after being a street FA and Herron did too I believe. If you take out the 60 yard run for MG he averaged 2.2 YPG. That’s the problem with using a tiny sample size. Hot take though (as always). Clearly, we have derailed this thread enough and I’m going to leave now so that others can weigh in on the actual topic. We aren’t going to come to any sort of agreement and that’s fine. Edited February 6, 2018 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 This thread reminds me of Ryan L Billz, one of TT's biggest detractors two seasons ago, don't know what happened to him. Dude would bash TT left and right all day long, yet he had a Bledsoe avatar! In 2016!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: They combined for 32 carries on the season!! That’s some sample size that you are using. Boobie came back after being a street FA and Herron did too I believe. If you take out the 60 yard run for MG he averaged 2.2 YPG. That’s the problem with using a tiny sample size. Hot take though (as always). If you take out his good plays, he was bad. Solid analysis. Tell me more about how Boobie (who was in the same league as Karlos) or any back would have been effective on the Bills in 2015. Do you plan on checking your work before you post next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: If you take out his good plays, he was bad. Solid analysis. Tell me more about how Boobie (who was in the same league as Karlos) or any back would have been effective on the Bills in 2015. Do you plan on checking your work before you post next time? Not “plays,” “play” If there was a holding call he would be at 2.2 YPG (right near Boobie). His YPC is WAY inflated by 1 play. That’s why a sample size of 11 carries (Herron) isn’t really telling you anything. If these are the lengths that you’ll go to to discredit the back-to-back top 10 DVOA offense because of TT it’s kind of pathetic. Again, he is a playoff QB so not a part of the drought conversation. He was the best QB here since Kelly. My hope is that the starter this year takes that place quickly. We really don’t have much more to discuss. We aren’t going to agree on anything and we really don’t get along. Edited February 6, 2018 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: Not “plays,” “play” If there was a holding call he would be at 2.2 YPG (right near Boobie). His YPC is WAY inflated by 1 play. That’s why a sample size of 11 carries (Herron) isn’t really telling you anything. If I was a bus, we could all go for a ride. Boobie ='s Karlos. Karlos only had >50% of Boobie's career yards from scrimmage in 11 games. Basically equal. Spiller and Shady are also basically equal. Welcome to the bizarro Kirby world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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