Incognito update

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Maybe he said: "you half n----- piece of s---."

 

Would that be something a black man would consider racist........or just offensive?

Let's ask some.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/11/06/richie-incognito-honorary-black-man-miami-dolphins-jonathan-martin

 

We may now have an answer, unusual as it may be. Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald reported Wednesday that Incognito is considered "an honorary black man" by his teammates.

 

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

That explanation seemingly goes hand in hand with what ESPN's Cris Carter said on SportsCenter, following a talk with Miami center Mike Pouncey.

"They love Richie Incognito and they wish he was playing football for them this [Monday]," Carter said, via the Herald.

Receiver Mike Wallace echoed those comments to Salguero, saying, "I don't have a problem with Richie. I love Richie." Cornerback Brent Grimes and tight end Michael Egnew, meanwhile, both stated that Incognito is not racist.

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

I think that the- it’s crazy out there and it’s not representative of who I am— has to give a little pause that it might’ve been more than the previous “welcome to the jungle” hypothesis.

 

its possible there’s some ambiguity for sure... as I’ve said, I’m not trying to send him a suspension letter based on his apology... but The way it’s played has to give a little pause in defending what he may or may not have said.

Reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty.  Why would I give pause?  You should give pause in condemning him.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Let's ask some.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/11/06/richie-incognito-honorary-black-man-miami-dolphins-jonathan-martin

 

We may now have an answer, unusual as it may be. Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald reported Wednesday that Incognito is considered "an honorary black man" by his teammates.

 

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

That explanation seemingly goes hand in hand with what ESPN's Cris Carter said on SportsCenter, following a talk with Miami center Mike Pouncey.

"They love Richie Incognito and they wish he was playing football for them this [Monday]," Carter said, via the Herald.

Receiver Mike Wallace echoed those comments to Salguero, saying, "I don't have a problem with Richie. I love Richie." Cornerback Brent Grimes and tight end Michael Egnew, meanwhile, both stated that Incognito is not racist.

 

 

Why does this have anything to do with this discussion?  Because a few black men doesn't mind a team  mate the saying, for instance, that rifle scopes are "good for shooting black people", that all other black players shouldn't find such comments by Richie offensive?  That's an interesting perspective....

 

Let me guess, you "have black friends too"..

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

 

Reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty.  Why would I give pause?  You should give pause in condemning him.

 

Because you’re not a juror and neither of us are convicting him of anything... we are a couple of guys on a message board discussing whether it looks like he said something inappropriate

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You continue to actually, or more bizarrely, pretend to misunderstand what is being discussed here.

 

If the NFL is convinced he said nothing racial or suspendible (I don't even know if there is such a thing, honestly), then he should suffer NO PENALTY!  SEE?!!

 

 

To answer your question,  he was dumped by the Dolphins, no longer in the NFL.  He was sitting at home pounding his exotic car collection for the 2014 season.  Then the Bills signed him.

 

Why can't you answer the most obvious question of all (and that I keep asking)?  If he said nothing racially offensive (or offensive at all), what, exactly, is he apologizing so profusely for?  What would he have said where he has to apologize for the "power" of his words that don't reflect who he really is??

 

Just answer the question.  It's a real simple one.

 

It's been over 3 weeks since this all happened WEO.  I think it's safe to conclude that the NFL has found nothing and will do nothing.  And that obviously this "apology" means and proves nothing (and isn't even an apology really), which is what I've been saying all along.  But you're not listening.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It's been over 3 weeks since this all happened WEO.  I think it's safe to conclude that the NFL has found nothing and will do nothing.  And that obviously this "apology" means and proves nothing (and isn't even an apology really), which is what I've been saying all along.  But you're not listening.

 

 

It's not an apology?

 

Then what is RI referring to in this "not an apology"?  Come on, what do you think he is referring to?  What did he say that has now made him consider the "power of words"?  That aren;t selective of the man he is?  What is he referring to, exactly? "Your mother wears combat boots"?

 

Again, you have painted yourself into a corner which makes you have to resort to contort like this.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Without actually knowing - nothing... but I’m still able to say that given the context of what we do know, I think he probably said something reasonably offensive to a black person. 

 

“That guy said something racist”

 

”man, I apologize  - it gets crazy out there and what I said isn’t representative of the man I am”

 

And it seems to truly pain you to acknowledge that the response lends some credibility to the claim? 

 

You also keep mixing what one thinks happen with what he should be punished for. Let’s pretend for a minute you and I are having a beer, and chit chatting.... and put away the fear that roger Goodell is waiting for your opinion before moving forward with punishment... you have to think there’s a pretty good chance he said something racially inappropriate, right?

 

Again NS, it depends on what he said.  I've heard some lame stuff that people get offended over.  If it truly had been egregious, like "half n-----," that YN wouldn't have qualified it as "weak racist," much less accepted his apology. 

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Why does this have anything to do with this discussion?  Because a few black men doesn't mind a team  mate the saying, for instance, that rifle scopes are "good for shooting black people", that all other black players shouldn't find such comments by Richie offensive?  That's an interesting perspective....

 

Let me guess, you "have black friends too"..

You literally asked me what a black person would say.  I gave you what several said.  

 

I didn't say should or shouldn't.  You tripped on that rake all on your own.  It's over.  Quit while you're sprawled out on the floor.

 

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Because you’re not a juror and neither of us are convicting him of anything... we are a couple of guys on a message board discussing whether it looks like he said something inappropriate

It's possible he did.  I remain unconvinced and continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.  You clearly don't.  To act like my side is the one aggressively jumping to conclusions and yours isn't seems odd.  

 

Furthermore, this doesn't have to be a courtroom to believe in the ideals this country was based off of. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

You literally asked me what a black person would say.  I gave you what several said.  

 

I didn't say should or shouldn't.  You tripped on that rake all on your own.  It's over.  Quit while you're sprawled out on the floor.

 

It's possible he did.  I remain unconvinced and continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.  You clearly don't.  To act like my side is the one aggressively jumping to conclusions and yours isn't seems odd.  

 

Furthermore, this doesn't have to be a courtroom to believe in the ideals this country was based off of. 

 

 

Wow! you found "several" who didn't mind a white guy calling a black player a "half N---" and rhapsodize over the best weapons to be used for shooting black people!

 

Now for you another simple question (I have so many for you two!):  would most black men be amused or offended by the stuff RI said in the past?  If you're not sure, ask your black friends!  

 

Answer this question and I'll let you get back to your rakes and shovels...

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's not an apology?

 

Then what is RI referring to in this "not an apology"?  Come on, what do you think he is referring to?  What did he say that has now made him consider the "power of words"?  That aren;t selective of the man he is?  What is he referring to, exactly? "Your mother wears combat boots"?

 

Again, you have painted yourself into a corner which makes you have to resort to contort like this.

 

It was a non-apology apology.  Along the lines of "I'm sorry he got offended at the mean (but not racist) things I said to him during the game.  I gave him a hug and a pat on the back so he could cry it out.  Next time I play him I won't say mean things again because, gosh darn, words can hurt!"  To you though, it was him admitting he called him a "half n-----." 

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Wow! you found "several" who didn't mind a white guy calling a black player a "half N---" and rhapsodize over the best weapons to be used for shooting black people!

 

Now for you another simple question (I have so many for you two!):  would most black men be amused or offended by the stuff RI said in the past?  If you're not sure, ask your black friends!  

 

Answer this question and I'll let you get back to your rakes and shovels...

If I answer AGAIN, are you gonna keep digging to China or what?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It was a non-apology apology.  Along the lines of "I'm sorry he got offended at the mean (but not racist) things I said to him during the game.  I gave him a hug and a pat on the back so he could cry it out.  Next time I play him I won't say mean things again because, gosh darn, words can hurt!"  To you though, it was him admitting he called him a "half n-----." 

 

This is all purely disingenuous, doc.  

 

Look (can't believe I have to spell this out), if RI wasn't a serial F-up prone to outrageous utterances and anger control issues, I might give your ridiculous argument some more credence.   

 

Yannick has heard all manner of the usual non racist lineman trash talk.  This isn't sour grapes complaints--his team won.

 

I'll keep asking until you answer---what non-racist comments could RI have made that would have prompted Yannick to lie about the nature of the comments, and to prompt RI to make such a pointed "non-apology" about what he described as what he said?

 

 

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

If I answer AGAIN, are you gonna keep digging to China or what?

 

 

Again?  Just answer what I asked once.

[NoSaint]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It was a non-apology apology.  Along the lines of "I'm sorry he got offended at the mean (but not racist) things I said to him during the game.  I gave him a hug and a pat on the back so he could cry it out.  Next time I play him I won't say mean things again because, gosh darn, words can hurt!"  To you though, it was him admitting he called him a "half n-----." 

 

So following the course of the last few days of discussion— yannick was probably too sensitive and confused the insult as more racist than it really was but luckily for us he likely was duped by Ritchie’s fake apology too... but its really pushing it to think Ritchie simply said something in line with things he’s publicly said for years (even perhaps by accident in the heat of the moment), given that he was accused of similar and apologized without any added clarification on this innocent mixup...

Edited January 30, 2018 by NoSaint

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This is all purely disingenuous, doc.  

 

Look (can't believe I have to spell this out), if RI wasn't a serial F-up prone to outrageous utterances and anger control issues, I might give your ridiculous argument some more credence.   

 

Yannick has heard all manner of the usual non racist lineman trash talk.  This isn't sour grapes complaints--his team won.

 

I'll keep asking until you answer---what non-racist comments could RI have made that would have prompted Yannick to lie about the nature of the comments, and to prompt RI to make such a pointed "non-apology" about what he described as what he said?

 

 

 

 

Again?  Just answer what I asked once.

I don't know.  Out of context, maybe.  The guys who knew Richie didn't seem to give a !@#$, though.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

I don't know.  Out of context, maybe.  The guys who knew Richie didn't seem to give a !@#$, though.

 

 

You don't know if most black men would be offended by the quotes i gave?  In what "context" are they not offensive?

 

Would you say them to your black friends?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is all purely disingenuous, doc.  

 

Look (can't believe I have to spell this out), if RI wasn't a serial F-up prone to outrageous utterances and anger control issues, I might give your ridiculous argument some more credence.   

 

Yannick has heard all manner of the usual non racist lineman trash talk.  This isn't sour grapes complaints--his team won.

 

I'll keep asking until you answer---what non-racist comments could RI have made that would have prompted Yannick to lie about the nature of the comments, and to prompt RI to make such a pointed "non-apology" about what he described as what he said?

 

"Serial F-up?"  He had one incident (oh wait, beating up the Ferrari, good one) with a teammate that his other black teammates fully supported him in, not even siding with their aggrieved black teammate.  Even after he was never coming back to play for their team again.  If that didn't tell you what was up then, nothing will.   

 

As for what RI may have said, I offered one earlier.  What if he said to YN "go back to Cameroon..."?  To someone that could be considered "racist" and it sure is "weak."  If that's what he said, would it still get your dander up? 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You don't know if most black men would be offended by the quotes i gave?  In what "context" are they not offensive?

 

Would you say them to your black friends?

I'm not an honorary black guy.

 

Clearly there was some sort of context that Pouncey and the gang didn't find them offensive.  Or are you gonna say those black guys have the "wrong" opinions on race, massa?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

I'm not an honorary black guy.

 

Clearly there was some sort of context that Pouncey and the gang didn't find them offensive.  Or are you gonna say those black guys have the "wrong" opinions on race, massa?

 

 

You struggle to answer simple questions.

 

Would you say these things to your black friends?

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You struggle to answer simple questions.

 

Would you say these things to your black friends?

No, but I'm not an honorary black guy.  I thought the implication was obvious.

 

Would you educate Mike Pouncey on what is and isn't racially offensive?  

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

"Serial F-up?"  He had one incident (oh wait, beating up the Ferrari, good one) with a teammate that his other black teammates fully supported him in, not even siding with their aggrieved black teammate.  Even after he was never coming back to play for their team again.  If that didn't tell you what was up then, nothing will.   

 

As for what RI may have said, I offered one earlier.  What if he said to YN "go back to Cameroon..."?  To someone that could be considered "racist" and it sure is "weak."  If that's what he said, would it still get your dander up? 

 

Go back and read all the things he said.  Also, he made racial slurs towards an Asian trainer on the team.  Look that up too.

 

And this what his college career was like:

 

"In the spring of 2003, Incognito was involved in a fight during practice and was suspended indefinitely by head coach Frank Solich. By this time, Solich and his staff were concerned enough about Incognito's behavior to send him to the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kansas for anger management treatment.^[9] Incognito was reinstated by the start of the season and started 13 games at left tackle. He was rewarded with a first-team All-Big 12 selection by the Associated Press.^[7] However, during the Huskers' victory in the 2003 Alamo Bowl, he was accused of spitting on two Michigan State players.^[8]

In February 2004, Incognito was involved in a fight at a party and was charged with three counts of assault. In June, he was found guilty on one of the misdemeanor assault charges and paid a $500 fine. Incognito was shifted to center during the 2004 preseason camp. He entered the season with high expectations, listed on a number of preseason lists as a top center and named to the watch list for the Rimington Trophy going to the best center in college football.^[10] On September 1, however, he was suspended indefinitely for repeated violations of team rules. The final straw for new coach Bill Callahan came when Incognito was once again involved in a fight in the locker room. Within a few weeks, Incognito withdrew from all classes at Nebraska and left Lincoln.^[9][11]

In late September, he transferred to the University of Oregon, only to be dismissed from the team a week later. Head coach Mike Bellotti said Incognito failed to meet the conditions he had agreed to meet before his arrival in Eugene. Bellotti didn't elaborate, but Incognito had been required to complete an anger-management course and adhere to a strict code of conduct.^[12]"

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

No, but I'm not an honorary black guy.  I thought the implication was obvious.

 

Would you educate Mike Pouncey on what is and isn't racially offensive?  

 

 

OK, let;s go about this another way.  Because "several" black guys were not offended by racial comment RI made in the past, then no black guys should be offended by those or other racial comments or slurs he may make in the future?

 

I want you to get you to confirm that this is your opinion, then I will let you go.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

OK, let;s go about this another way.  Because "several" black guys were not offended by racial comment RI made in the past, then no black guys should be offended by those or other racial comments or slurs he may make in the future?

 

I want you to get you to confirm that this is your opinion, then I will let you go.

Was there in answer to my question in there?  Is this a one way street?

 

Would you educate Mike Pouncey on what is and isn't racially offensive?  

Edited January 30, 2018 by jmc12290