USMCBillsFan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 This is the line of thinking that causes rent control and any other price controls to be implemented. In any case as laudable as the motivation might be behind such laws, they never work. When there are artificial price controls preventing the free-market from functioning correctly you either have shortages of the product or a black market. You cannot stop it. 267765[/snapback] Bullstojan... The free market is what the club places as a price. Not what some !@#$ charges for tickets he happened to purchase first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Wasn't there some other post attacking what I said by you? 267762[/snapback] While prostitution is pure capitalism. And is legal in the state of Nevada. It does carry baggage with it deeemed inappropriate in our society. But you cannot compare ticket scalping with prostitution. They are nothing close to each other except money changing hands. Buying milk, titheing at church, money changes hands, are you saying they are the same as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Bullstojan... The free market is what the club places as a price. Not what some !@#$ charges for tickets he happened to purchase first. 267854[/snapback] The free market does not just include the first purchase of a good/service but also any subsequent reselling of that product. The definition of a free market is that it is unfettered. By definition of the idea of a free market, laws against scalping are impeding it. In fact laws against scalping make the problem even worse as the risk of being caught selling the ticket is factored into the price that a scalper sells the ticket for, raising the price of the ticket even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I have no idea.I'm just expressing my opinion.If you think that I'm attacking you,then that's your problem..... 268019[/snapback] I didn't say you were attacking me, I said you were attacking what I said. I don't care if you attack what I say, just there was a different post by you previously. So you either removed it or edited. Either way, I don't care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 By your logic,superbowl tickets should cost around $10,000.00After all,*some* people will pay that much....... 268029[/snapback] I said nothing about what I think should Super Bowl tickets should cost, only that trying to restrict scalping is the wrong way to address the affordability of tickets. And it isn't my logic that supports it, it's basic economics. I don't know if the Stadium Wall is the best way to teach my first Econ 101 class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Man Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Going by what they were saying on ESPN this morning, it's a pretty common practice for players to sell the tickets they get to brokers. Tice just happened to get caught, probably due to somebody being pissed off about the Moss trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 It's bad economics.Ever hear of ethics?????????? 268048[/snapback] Bad ethics? Scalpers aren't jacking up the price of water to people dying of thirst. They are selling tickets to an entertainment event. The tickets already cost hundreds of dollars, pricing most people out of going to the game already. If the NFL really cared about the low-income fans they wouldn't be charging 500 a ticket to begin with and they would have the championship game at one of the team's home stadium like they did before the Super Bowl came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 If a scalper can buy tickets, and sell them for double what the box office is selling them for, that means one thing, and one thing only: The box office prices are FAR too low. Listen, the "correct" price for something (what it is worth) is the price the public is willing to pay for it. Like when someone says "The book Value of a mint Mickey Mantle Rookie Card is $55,000". That doesn't mean crap. If someone sells a mint Mickey Mantle rookie on eBay, or some other public venue, and it sells for $25,000, is it worth $55,000 because some book says so? No, it's worth what someone will pay for it. I completly agree with JohnnyB here, even though I happen to dislike it as a fan. A question was asked a week or so ago here "How much would ticket prices have to be before you stopped going?". The common answer was $100. To that, I say BULL SH--! It's like asking someone in 1975 if they would ever pay $2.00 a gallon for gas. They would say "NEVER". Supply and demand, people. If the Bills are playing NewEngland or Miami late next season at home, and the Bills are in the playoff hunt, OBD could EASILY sell every ticket for $120. And the game would be on TV, because the place would sell out. The fact that you happen to get yours for $40 because you go there early, doesn't mean that the scalper selling that same ticket for $120 is wrong. It just means that he has set the market price. And in turn, that means they are "worth" $120. So, don't think of it like paying $120 for a ticket would be awful. Think about the fact that the people who got them for $40 got QUITE a deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Actually,that happened at that phony Woodstock show in the '90'sI suppose that is O.K. too. After all,the market will bear the price..... 268056[/snapback] I was at that "phony" show (which was an amazing weekend by the way), and anyone dying of thirst was doing so because they were lazy or stupid. Water was $5 a bottle, yes. However, they allowed you to bring your own, and after that, you could fill up for FREE anywhere you wanted. They had sinks everywhere. We had 6 people so we would take turns, once and hour, lugging a bag to one of the sinks and filling up 6 large bottles. Common sense meant no dehydration, even being stoned to the gills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 unbelievable... no wonder moss didnt respect the guy 267358[/snapback] Tice has admitted to the scalping and said that "some former player" appears to be out to get him. Any chance he's referring to Moss? http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2008348 Tice told Mortensen that when league security officials left Tuesday, "they felt this was not some big can of worms and told me to make sure all our guys make the proper claims on their IRS forms." Tice said he told the truth to the league and his wife and kids, and he maintains that there is "some former player" out there trying to get him "because there are a lot of lies being told." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasoninMT Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I just don't see why they do it... If the NFL truly wants to cut this, then the players will have to pick them up as will call on their way in.... What ticks me off more about this than anything, is that the NFL doesn't then have all of those tickets to sell at face value to Joe Fan (you & I) because players claimed them... so we are forced to buy them at the ridiculous scalped prices... If there's anything which bothers me a little about this Tice witch hunt... it's that it has been going on for so long, and Tice has been doing it for a long time... but for him it will probably mark the end of a career (maybe not a bad thing).... but given the already tenuous stance on him as a coach, having a mark against you by the NFL isn't going to win any support at being a coach... And perhaps cracking down hard on him will force some players to think twice about scalping... but the NFL MUST at a minimum continue to make this trickle down and fine the players who gave them to him as well if they want to truly curb the activity.... fine them each $5000.... that's more than they get for their tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Actually,that happened at that phony Woodstock show in the '90'sI suppose that is O.K. too. After all,the market will bear the price..... 268056[/snapback] You are on to something we you say that bad economics and bad ethics are two different things. That's correct. I expect that my fellow man will not exploit someone else's need for water, food or whatever. Just like I expect my fellow man to in general help someone out when they can. These instances are limited and I don't think you can compare this extreme to Super Bowl tickets as they are tickets for entertainment, not something crucial to someone's survival. As much as I love the Bills and football.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 What ticks me off more about this than anything, is that the NFL doesn't then have all of those tickets to sell at face value to Joe Fan (you & I) because players claimed them... so we are forced to buy them at the ridiculous scalped prices... 268066[/snapback] "All those tickets"? We're talking hundreds at the most. And we're also talking the biggest sporting even in America. It takes all 7 Stanley Cups games, or all 7 World Series games, or all 7 NBA Championship games, and puts them into one awesome afternoon. Even if the NFL didn't give tickets to the players and coaches, I hope you wouldn't be expecting to get in for $35 and $5 for parking! Come on, not giving tickets to the players or coaches would lower the price by about a hundreth of a cent per ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I agree.We are not talking about the NFL though.... 268059[/snapback] Maybe you aren't, but the topic began with discussing the story of the NFL going after Mike Tice for scalping tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I also think we are ignoring the real problem here of the networks giving away tickets to celebrities, especially Fox to promote their shows or just to show some dumbass actor because apparently the actual game isn't exciting enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I have no idea.I'm just expressing my opinion.If you think that I'm attacking you,then that's your problem..... 268019[/snapback] Careful Bart.....remember...kinder gentler TSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Careful Bart.....remember...kinder gentler TSW 268087[/snapback] I kind of provoked that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasoninMT Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 let's see.... 53 players x 32 teams.... for just roster players... and then there's the coaches, and the practice squad players (who may also have the chance... I don't know).... Plus I believe they can get 2 tickets each.... Sure, not every one of them does the scalping... but even a quarter of that is more than "a few hundred" tickets.... And, no, I wouldn't expect to pay $100 for a ticket to the superbowl... but, $1700? I could pay the $500 face value... hell, I plan to some day... but it isn't fair to me if they don't have those $500 tickets because players took them and scalped them via a broker for $1700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 let's see.... 53 players x 32 teams.... for just roster players... and then there's the coaches, and the practice squad players (who may also have the chance... I don't know).... Plus I believe they can get 2 tickets each.... Sure, not every one of them does the scalping... but even a quarter of that is more than "a few hundred" tickets.... And, no, I wouldn't expect to pay $100 for a ticket to the superbowl... but, $1700? I could pay the $500 face value... hell, I plan to some day... but it isn't fair to me if they don't have those $500 tickets because players took them and scalped them via a broker for $1700. 268097[/snapback] I think the problem is less the scalping and more the unequal initial access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 let's see.... 53 players x 32 teams.... for just roster players... and then there's the coaches, and the practice squad players (who may also have the chance... I don't know).... Plus I believe they can get 2 tickets each.... Sure, not every one of them does the scalping... but even a quarter of that is more than "a few hundred" tickets.... And, no, I wouldn't expect to pay $100 for a ticket to the superbowl... but, $1700? I could pay the $500 face value... hell, I plan to some day... but it isn't fair to me if they don't have those $500 tickets because players took them and scalped them via a broker for $1700. 268097[/snapback] Again, go read my post about what the tickets are worth. If ANYONE gets a SB ticket for $500, they got a STEAL. Just because that is what is written on the face, doesn't mean that is what they are "worth". They are obviously worth closer to $1700, as the place was sold out, and the tickets were selling that much. Let's put it this way: If Ford started selling its new Mustangs for $1,000, but only had VERY VERY few, and someone bought them quickly and decided to sell them for $17,000 does that mean they are "worth $1,000"? No. They are worth whatever someone will pay for them. If there was such a huge demand for SB tickets, the average joe could go. But, everyone loves football. Thus, tickets will sell for $1700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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