Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Woodman19 said: RB, Recievers and QB are typically judged on how many yards and touchdowns they are responsible for, so yeah. Ok so why not take into account Taylor's rushing yardage and his 4/1 TD/INT ratio? 1450 yards rushing since becoming the starter and 63 touchdowns (rushing and passing) to 15 interceptions? Anyone who disregards these numbers has a clear agenda IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Fellas, our offense is putrid. Everywhere outside of like shady tyrod and wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 56 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Woah. We don't need a transcendent QB which it is arguable to say there is a few more than two in this league. Not the point though. Tyrod is not a top 15 QB. He may have some nice stats that say so but he limits the offense as much as he helps it out with his running ability. He's middle of the pack. Do we dare to be better? For once, do we dare to be better than average? you should always look to improve the roster of course. They will be drafting a QB early because they set up for just that as we saw in last years draft and trading since then. Try to win now.. Be silly to throw away a season to preserve a scheme on Offense for next year. Let him play him to his strengths as the Offense as a whole. or we could keep throwing designed screens to Tolbert or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Aaron Rodgers doesn't look good without his weapons. It takes 2 to complete a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, Theshallowcross said: Your list is flawed. There are ONLY two QBs who make their teammates actually better. Brees has only 1 season with an above.500 record since 2011. Only ONE. The rest of the guys I can easily make arguments for why they aren't in the Brady/Rodgers stratosphere. Didn't know you were only talking the top notch of top notch Hall of Famers. I consider Brees, Big Ben, Wilson easily in that top tier. Brees has the most 5,000 yards passing and has had some of the highest scoring offenses along with Big Ben. Wilson has the clutch gene in his DNA and has already been in two super bowls. They all have won super bowls and been to the playoffs several times in their careers. I'll take any of those guys any second of the week. If you are only looking for Rodgers or Brady...good luck. However, there are many other guys that are huge upgrades to Tyrod in this league but aren't in that category. Tyrod is average. I think any one of us would take a guy like Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Russell Wilson, Brees any day of the week. Leaving out some hall of famers in your list of transcendent QBs...I don't think we are gonna agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Theshallowcross said: Ok so why not take into account Taylor's rushing yardage and his 4/1 TD/INT ratio? 1450 yards rushing since becoming the starter and 63 touchdowns (rushing and passing) to 15 interceptions? Anyone who disregards these numbers has a clear agenda IMO. Rushing yards and TD definitely counts, TD/INT ratios is a watered down stat to try to show that a QB who doesn't really throw many TD's is somehow great because he doesn't throw interceptions. Is Eric Wood a good QB? last I checked he has played over 10 years without throwing an interception which is better than Tyrod. Edited November 30, 2017 by Woodman19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said: Didn't know you were only talking the top notch of top notch Hall of Famers. I consider Brees, Big Ben, Wilson easily in that top tier. Brees has the most 5,000 yards passing and has had some of the highest scoring offenses along with Big Ben. Wilson has the clutch gene in his DNA and has already been in two super bowls. They all have won super bowls and been to the playoffs several times in their careers. I'll take any of those guys any second of the week. If you are only looking for Rodgers or Brady...good luck. However, there are many other guys that are huge upgrades to Tyrod in this league but aren't in that category. Tyrod is average. I think any one of us would take a guy like Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Russell Wilson, Brees any day of the week. Leaving out some hall of famers in your list of transcendent QBs...I don't think we are gonna agree... Big Ben has the best skill position players in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: you should always look to improve the roster of course. They will be drafting a QB early because they set up for just that as we saw in last years draft and trading since then. Try to win now.. Be silly to throw away a season to preserve a scheme on Offense for next year. Let him play him to his strengths as the Offense as a whole. or we could keep throwing designed screens to Tolbert or I've gone back and forth between completely changing the offense for Tyrod, who clearly won't be there next year. If I'm a new coach, I don't know if I can do that. You'd be having all your other guys who will be on the team next learn a new scheme again. That can be a setback for some. I guess I just get where they are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 41 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Wow. Yep that's better than half of the league. That's also not better than the other half...that's the definition of middle of the pack... Big Ben, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson absolutely makes everyone on the offense better, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz could end up here if he continues to play at the level he's been playing, Andrew Luck when healthy, Drew Brees...the list goes on man. I still consider Tyrod behind Cam, Rivers, Sam Bradford when he was healthy, Jameis Winston...I could keep going but I'm tired. I'm done with being average. We tried it...hasn't worked. Let's be great. Then we need be become very good at drafting a QB early. color me concerned. But i do remain hopeful that Bills will some how stumble upon that star that shines and everyone loves. Odds are in our favor by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Big Ben has the best skill position players in the league Just watch him...that's all you need to do to know he's a hall of famer... Got more super bowls than we do doesn't he... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said: No no no no no no. He didn't lead a top ten offense. Shady Mccoy did. Do not mix that up. Shady was the MVP of the offense by a clear mile last year. Tyrod was still steady at middle to lower end in passing offense and only 23 total touchdowns...23!! In what galaxy is that better than average. Just because he's better than every QB we've had since the 90s doesn't mean he's better than average. He may not turn the ball over but he also doesn't punch it in the end zone that often either. 24, 23 and 15 combined touchdowns in his time here. That's not gonna cut it It was a team effort under a system suited to its players strengths. To diminish Tyrod's role in that is not being realistic. The threat of Tyrod running and read option forced defenses to account for him and allowed opportunities for McCoy to make plays in space. I mean even Gillislee looked like an All-Pro in that offense and where is he now on the bench a healthy scratch. Up front we returned the same players as last year and McCoy is not leading a top ten offense this year. What changed how about the entire offensive system. To summarize top ranked offense last year all McCoy. This year bottom ranked offense all on Tyrod. Yep makes sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, Bangarang said: A top 15 QB yet we consistently have one of the worst passing offenses in the league with him as a starter? Get real. We’ll see how many teams are lining up to sign him as their starter once we get rid of him. and you guys love to give Tyrod so much credit for McCoy’s success as if he wasnt consistently one of the best RBs in the league before he even got here. Laughable. But you also believe Tyrod can be our franchise QB so it’s not surprising. Has this been stated yet? Underutilized this year i think is the theme. Not running the types of plays Lynn did off Romans foundations. Franchise? Nope. just best we got for now. Make it work Rico : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: Then we need be become very good at drafting a QB early. color me concerned. But i do remain hopeful that Bills will some how stumble upon that star that shines and everyone loves. Odds are in our favor by now? Well we got new guys running the show...we will see. Whoever they get at QB, I hope they surround the guy with talent. Give him the best chance to succeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Big Ben has the best skill position players in the league And Wilson had one of the best defenses in football and had a superb running game when he went to both Super Bowls. You nailed it with Ben and as far as Brees the dude has literally ONE winning season since 2011. It's a team game. If Taylor would've had the offense from the last two seasons as well as a historically great defense like Wilson had, the Bills would've certainly broken the playoff curse and I guarantee we wouldn't be having this discussion about whether he is a good QB or not (he is). Edited November 30, 2017 by Theshallowcross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Didn't know you were only talking the top notch of top notch Hall of Famers. I consider Brees, Big Ben, Wilson easily in that top tier. Brees has the most 5,000 yards passing and has had some of the highest scoring offenses along with Big Ben. Wilson has the clutch gene in his DNA and has already been in two super bowls. They all have won super bowls and been to the playoffs several times in their careers. I'll take any of those guys any second of the week. If you are only looking for Rodgers or Brady...good luck. However, there are many other guys that are huge upgrades to Tyrod in this league but aren't in that category. Tyrod is average. I think any one of us would take a guy like Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Russell Wilson, Brees any day of the week. Leaving out some hall of famers in your list of transcendent QBs...I don't think we are gonna agree... "Transcendent" QB's can take below average teams and all but will them into championship contention. We know they exist because Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers in particular are/were those guys........they took teams to the playoffs every year regardless. There is more to that than just passing for 300 yards in a lot of games. Big Ben is the only other one deserving of that credit........but he's faded.......... now he's more of a system QB and Pittsburgh has HEAVILY fortified the talent around him because they know he's not good enough to survive if he doesn't have an inexhaustible supply of downfield targets that can make plays. Simply not efficient enough any longer. Russell Wilson is entering that area but not enough years of service yet. That's where the debatable part of the list ends. Brees is a HOF passer but not a transcendent QB. He's lost many-a-game with his decisions and those occasional wobbly duck throws. Also a system QB who is being propped up greatly by a tremendous running game and a very solid D this year. Still a great passer but if he was a transcendent QB that was quite a while ago. This is not to say that there is no difference between Tyrod and Big Ben or Brees...........but it's not nearly as large of a gap as so many people here think. Tyrod gets no propping up from his organization. Be honest, you didn't know that Brees was 7-9 each of the last 3 seasons, did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, billieve420 said: It was a team effort under a system suited to its players strengths. To diminish Tyrod's role in that is not being realistic. The threat of Tyrod running and read option forced defenses to account for him and allowed opportunities for McCoy to make plays in space. I mean even Gillislee looked like an All-Pro in that offense and where is he now on the bench a healthy scratch. Up front we returned the same players as last year and McCoy is not leading a top ten offense this year. What changed how about the entire offensive system. To summarize top ranked offense last year all McCoy. This year bottom ranked offense all on Tyrod. Yep makes sense to me. I didn't give Mccoy all the credit, I was just correcting him saying that Mccoy led the team. If Mccoy didn't play well, we lost. Did I say that it was all Tyrod's fault this year? Nope. He just needed so much help last year to be average and hasn't been able to look decent in certain games where either the defense or running game doesn't click. He's not good enough to overcome a bad day by other parts of the team. Hence, he's average. I used to be a Tyrod til I die guy but just hasn't improved enough in his passing abilities to keep him anymore. I'm tired of finding the travelling QBs that bounce from team to team and are only bridge players. It's time to draft one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Weather you like it or not the media outside of Buffalo see Tyrod as what he is, an average QB. The whole media clowned McDerm and anyone else that was pounding the table for NP. Tyrod will start for another team next year. Count it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Theshallowcross said: And Wilson had one of the best defenses in football and had a superb running game when he went to both Super Bowls. You nailed it with Ben and as far as Brees the dude has literally ONE winning season since 2011. It's a team game. If Taylor would've had the offense from the last two seasons as well as a historically great defense like Wilson had, the Bills would've certainly broken the playoff curse and I guarantee we wouldn't be having this discussion about whether he is a good QB or not (he is). One of most festering peeves about Folks watching football and commenting about a single player.. It really is one of the most serious Team games. Takes each cog to turn smoothly. and each cog needs to be well oiled by Coaching. "Team Game" answers so many questions. And stats are not quick to reveal that perspective. Edited November 30, 2017 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Theshallowcross said: You can't be serious about Peterman. He is quite literally the worst QB statistically in one half of a game all time. There is nothing else to see there. You do realize Taylor was the backup to a Super Bowl winning QB? That's why he wasn't playing. I mean you do understand that right? You sure sound like another poster that I would think would be all over this thread with the Tyrod name to it? Things that make me go hmmmm?? That you JM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Theshallowcross said: Taylor led a top 10 offense (DVOA) the past two seasons. To say that he hasn't proven that he is better than average is wrong on every level. Running a run-based offense that was intentionally designed to hide the deficiencies of the quarterback. No NFL team wants to use that offense on a long-term basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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