Lawson was Benched, was he another first round bust?

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

He was a Rex guy.

 

I'm surprised he's still on the team.

Except he didn't fit at all, by his own admission, into what Rex wanted to do...

[Xerx]

The player isn't a bust. He's a serviceable player right now.

 

Was he drafted too high for his play? (so far) - Absolutely.

 

That's not on the player, he's not a bust, that a busted pick, that's on Whaley.

 

Fans may expect more from him because he was a "1st" rounder, that's not exactly fair. That's on the scouts and GM for poor evaluation on his potential impact. 

 

So yes, to answer the OP question. He's a first round bust (currently) -that's on Whaley

[The Now Moment]

I don't think we've given him enough time to develop and some have already written him off.  He is a guy that looks like he fits the scheme well, he just needs a little time.  He's only played about 19 games or somthing like that.  He's got 31 tackles this year so far and 3 sacks.  He was never drafted to have double digit sacks year in and year out.  He's a run stopper first and foremost and all the scouts new that when they pegged him.  He seems to be progressing nicely.  How many DEs come into the league and immediately dominate and put up ridiculous sack numbers?  I don't see many.  Even Jadaveon Clowney took a little bit to develop but now after some patience...he's got 9 sacks this year.  Little too early to label the guy a bust.  I think his potential is a guy who will have 50-60 tackles, most coming against the run and 6-10 sacks.  That'd be a solid pick.  Just let the kid develop.  He's on pace for 45 tackles on the year and 4.5 sacks on the year...next year if he continues to improve and gets more talent next to him, he could end up in that 50-60 tackle range with around 5-8 sacks.  Why are we trying to run him out of town?

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If we kept more of the Whaley guys, we'd be easily in the playoffs.  And I think Shaq was more of a Rex guy.

 

but here is the problem with letting productive vets go and using draft picks replace them.  There is no guarantee a Draft pick will live up to the vet's play.  I give Tre White a ton of credit for replacing Gilmore but that is the only recent example I can think of (and I'd still rather have Watson  ).

Nobody knows if Watson would have been any good here.  He runs a college system with a former college coach in Houston...we don't have either of those.  Taking a player, especially a rookie and saying they'd be good here when their situation is completely different is a reach.  He could've been great, who knows but I'm just pointing out it could've been a situation where he was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole here.  We just don't know how the fit would work.  Other QBs are easier to say that about but Watson is certainly a special case.  

[C.Biscuit97]

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your view that the Whaley "team" was a playoff caliber team. In my view Whaley had a habit of over-valuing his talent. He made expedient moves to get over the proverbial hump that ended up mortgaging the future. He had a bad habit of gratuitously giving up picks for selections that weren't the cost. 

 

Many people point out that giving up Watkins for a second round pick and a starting CB was a big mistake. Yet, with our current qb situation having a talented Watkins would have been a waste. There were also considerations of cost and whether he wanted to be here. You are right that there are no guarantees with draft picks. There are also no guarantees that more costly free agent acquisitions are going to work out either. Whether you agree or not Beane has clearly and forcefully stated that the Bills are going to rebuild mostly through the draft. I agree with that approach. 

 

 

Well, I also disagree.   TT's best skill as a passer is not to turn the ball over and throw the ball deep.  When Sammy was healthy in the second half of 2015, they were one of the best combos in the NFL.  As much as Goff has improved, he misses Sammy deep a bunch. Tyrod wouldn't.

 

We obviously have no way of knowing but we win that Carolina game if Sammy is there. His presence would open things for McCoy.  Dareus would help us more than a 6th rounder.

 

im not the biggest SM fan. I think he is very Jauron like.  That said, he could be an upgrade over Rex if we have better talent, which he traded away. 

 

I think the biggest that that might hurt  as a coach is him essentially being the GM. Time will tell.

17 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I don't think we've given him enough time to develop and some have already written him off.  He is a guy that looks like he fits the scheme well, he just needs a little time.  He's only played about 19 games or somthing like that.  He's got 31 tackles this year so far and 3 sacks.  He was never drafted to have double digit sacks year in and year out.  He's a run stopper first and foremost and all the scouts new that when they pegged him.  He seems to be progressing nicely.  How many DEs come into the league and immediately dominate and put up ridiculous sack numbers?  I don't see many.  Even Jadaveon Clowney took a little bit to develop but now after some patience...he's got 9 sacks this year.  Little too early to label the guy a bust.  I think his potential is a guy who will have 50-60 tackles, most coming against the run and 6-10 sacks.  That'd be a solid pick.  Just let the kid develop.  He's on pace for 45 tackles on the year and 4.5 sacks on the year...next year if he continues to improve and gets more talent next to him, he could end up in that 50-60 tackle range with around 5-8 sacks.  Why are we trying to run him out of town?

Nobody knows if Watson would have been any good here.  He runs a college system with a former college coach in Houston...we don't have either of those.  Taking a player, especially a rookie and saying they'd be good here when their situation is completely different is a reach.  He could've been great, who knows but I'm just pointing out it could've been a situation where he was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole here.  We just don't know how the fit would work.  Other QBs are easier to say that about but Watson is certainly a special case.  

Fair point but I think Watson was a special player. I don't think it's stretch to think he would be an upgrade over Taylor/ Peterman.

[Marty McFly]

Ragland played good on Sunday. I wonder what team needed a run stopping LB with instincts this year...?

[THEHARDTRUTH]

13 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Incorrect. He's been good against aginst the run. 

So what. Hes clearly not good enough. 

9 minutes ago, Marty McFly said:

Ragland played good on Sunday. I wonder what team needed a run stopping LB with instincts this year...?

Who won on Sunday?

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

So what. Hes clearly not good enough. 

Who won on Sunday?

 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The children have come to play. Now go back to madden.

[The Now Moment]

Game	COMB	AST	Sack	SFTY	FF
11/26 @ Chiefs	4	2	0.0	0	-
11/19 @ Chargers	4	0	1.0	0	1
11/12 vs Saints	4	1	0.0	0	-
11/2 @ Jets	3	2	0.0	0	-
10/22 vs Buccaneers	4	3	0.0	0	-
10/8 @ Bengals	2	2	0.0	0	-
9/24 vs Broncos	1	0	1.0	0	-
9/17 @ Panthers	6	4	1.0	0	-
9/10 vs Jets	3	1	0.0	0	-
Regular Season	31	15	3.0	-

Here is his statline for the games he's played this season.  He is consistently making tackles around the line of scrimmage.  He had a strip sack last week against the Chargers.  He's progressing nicely.  

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

The children have come to play. Now go back to madden.

 

No. I just decided not to argue any further with your uninformed opinion.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No. I just decided not to argue any further with your uninformed opinion.

Right. I dont agree with you so Im uninformed. Is Sean Mcdermott uninformed? How about Leslie Frazier? Ill bet they have an agenda or simply dont know the game. Thats why they benched Shaq. Maybe you should submit a resume because you clearly know more than they do. Im sure the part time job at kinkos and the 80  hours a week you spend in the gaming chair doing bong hits more than qualifies you. Now this is the point were you sign in as someone else and give me the "hes one of the most respected posters on this board" blast. Or you can just cry to one of the mods and get me banned. Right Sally?

Edited November 28, 2017 by THEHARDTRUTH

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

Right. I dont agree with you so Im uninformed. Is Sean Mcdermott uninformed? How about Leslie Frazier? Ill bet they have an agenda or simply dont know the game. Thats why they benched Shaq. Maybe you should submit a resume because you clearly know more than they do. Im sure the part time job at kinkos and the 80  hours a week you spend in the gaming chair doing bong hits more than qualifies you. Now this is the point were you sign in as someone else and give me the "hes one of the most respected posters on this board" blast. Or you can just cry to one of the mods and get me banned. Right Sally?

 

His benching was likely due to a disciplinary issue not related to his play on the field. Take off the tin foil hat. How's that for THEHARDTRUTH. 

[The Now Moment]

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well, I also disagree.   TT's best skill as a passer is not to turn the ball over and throw the ball deep.  When Sammy was healthy in the second half of 2015, they were one of the best combos in the NFL.  As much as Goff has improved, he misses Sammy deep a bunch. Tyrod wouldn't.

 

We obviously have no way of knowing but we win that Carolina game if Sammy is there. His presence would open things for McCoy.  Dareus would help us more than a 6th rounder.

 

im not the biggest SM fan. I think he is very Jauron like.  That said, he could be an upgrade over Rex if we have better talent, which he traded away. 

 

I think the biggest that that might hurt  as a coach is him essentially being the GM. Time will tell.

Fair point but I think Watson was a special player. I don't think it's stretch to think he would be an upgrade over Taylor/ Peterman.

While he may be slightly better than them in our system, why settle for a QB that won't be able to play to his strengths in this system. We wouldn't know how to use him properly just like Dennison doesn't know how to use Tyrod now.  Which is part of the problem on offense now.  Tyrod is a player that needs the system to match his abilities and we haven't done that.  I think they were afraid Watson would turn out to be the same.  A former college coach like Bill O'reilly is the absolute perfect fit for him.  McDermott clearly wants a pro-style offense, hence the Peterman pick.  

 

Not sure why it didn't quote your part instead of the other merged part

[HappyDays]

I see him and Glenn getting traded in the offseason.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

His benching was likely due to a disciplinary issue not related to his play on the field. Take off the tin foil hat. How's that for THEHARDTRUTH. 

My apologies. Your use of the word likely really cements your theory. Did you get that directly from Mcdermott? Or was that during monday film review with you and the defensive staff. You might want to work with Shaq a little more on his pass rushing techniques. Clearly someone with your deep knowledge of the game can turn this guy into a HOF overnight. Ill bet he sets the league sack record by the end of the year under your wing.

[Marty McFly]

15 minutes ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

Right. I dont agree with you so Im uninformed. Is Sean Mcdermott uninformed? How about Leslie Frazier? Ill bet they have an agenda or simply dont know the game. Thats why they benched Shaq. Maybe you should submit a resume because you clearly know more than they do. Im sure the part time job at kinkos and the 80  hours a week you spend in the gaming chair doing bong hits more than qualifies you. Now this is the point were you sign in as someone else and give me the "hes one of the most respected posters on this board" blast. Or you can just cry to one of the mods and get me banned. Right Sally?

 

80 hours a week in a gaming chair doing bong rips? lmao. ill sign up for that job.

 

They said benching Shaq was a disciplinary thing.

 

they def coulda used Ragland, he beasted on us yesterday. We could use a run stopping LB 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

My apologies. Your use of the word likely really cements your theory. Did you get that directly from Mcdermott? Or was that during monday film review with you and the defensive staff. You might want to work with Shaq a little more on his pass rushing techniques. Clearly someone with your deep knowledge of the game can turn this guy into a HOF overnight. Ill bet he sets the league sack record by the end of the year under your wing.

 

No. I listened to what he said and what it intimated.  I'm going to make copies now for a customer at Kinkos. 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

My concern with Shaq is lack of pass rush. The concern with Ragland was coverage ability. I think Mcdermott has made it clear he wants versatile players. Neither of these guys appears to fit that mold. Concerns about Lawsons play are valid. At least with respect to the pass rush. Unless your goal is 8-8 every year. Good luck against the Pats sunday if you cant generate pressure with just four guys. Brady will eat us alive if we give him time or start blitzing him because we cant get pressure with just four. Remember the first time the Giants beat them in the Superbowl? They absolutely abused him with four man rushes. I think thats what Mcdermott has in mind. I want championships not 8-8. We need more from our ends and dline as a whole if we want to beat the best teams.

[The Now Moment]

53 minutes ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

My concern with Shaq is lack of pass rush. The concern with Ragland was coverage ability. I think Mcdermott has made it clear he wants versatile players. Neither of these guys appears to fit that mold. Concerns about Lawsons play are valid. At least with respect to the pass rush. Unless your goal is 8-8 every year. Good luck against the Pats sunday if you cant generate pressure with just four guys. Brady will eat us alive if we give him time or start blitzing him because we cant get pressure with just four. Remember the first time the Giants beat them in the Superbowl? They absolutely abused him with four man rushes. I think thats what Mcdermott has in mind. I want championships not 8-8. We need more from our ends and dline as a whole if we want to beat the best teams.

He's only played about 20 games.  He continues to improve and had a strip sack against the Chargers.  With better DTs next to him and a little more time to develop his own pass rush abilitites, he will be just fine.  Most DEs take a little bit to get sacks.  Clowney is a perfect example.  A freak of nature but couldn't get the sacks right away.  This year he has 9 sacks without Watt next to him.  Shaq has 31 tackles in 10 games played this year...that's above average for DEs in this league.  He's developing nicely.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Best Player Available]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

He's only played about 20 games.  He continues to improve and had a strip sack against the Chargers.  With better DTs next to him and a little more time to develop his own pass rush abilitites, he will be just fine.  Most DEs take a little bit to get sacks.  Clowney is a perfect example.  A freak of nature but couldn't get the sacks right away.  This year he has 9 sacks with Watt next to him.  Shaq has 31 tackles in 10 games played this year...that's above average for DEs in this league.  He's developing nicely.

The only place Clowney is with Watt next to him is in the omelet line in the morning. since he's been on season ending IR.