THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Ramblings of a Madman

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think Peterman earns the job next preseason.  I don't think they hand it to him on a silver platter.  And I could care less what round  he was taken.  They will also draft a guy and if he shows he's the best he'll start.  TT will likely be gone, but if he lights it up the rest of the year maybe they reconsider.  

 

I also think they feel that putting Peterson out there right now would be counterproductive as stated above.  So TT gives them a better shot right now.

 

short term and long term objectives.  They've said that since day 1.  Maybe it's time to actually believe what they're saying instead of reading tea leaves for something that isn't there.  And time will tell if their approach succeeds.

You're missing my point.  It isn't about Peterman.  It's about Taylor.   I think you're absolutely wrong about Taylor.   I think it's a 90% certainty that Taylor will not be a Bill in 2019, because all he's gotten since McDermott and Dennison arrived are votes of no-confidence.   His head coach actually thought that Peterman was better than Taylor.   I think Taylor is leaving as soon as he can.  So your scenario where Taylor lights it up is a nonstarter.  It doesn't matter if they reconsider; Taylor won't.   So if Taylor lights it up the rest of this season and next, Taylor will get a five-year $125 million somewhere, and it won't be with the Bills.    Why would he stay with the Bills?   He can get the same money from some other team, and playing for another coach means he no longer have to worry about who McD thinks gives the Bills the "best chance to win."

 

The problem here isn't how they handled Peterman.  If Peterman is going to make it in the league, he'll make it.  The problem is that they mishandled Taylor. 

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You are completely on-point with the problem of feeling you have to draft a QB (and have to start them).  That's exactly what got us Losman and Manuel and kept the St Louis Rams in a futile cycle with Bradford for 5 freakin' years.  The most successful approach to finding a QB has been employed by teams like Seattle and Philly, who both pulled out all the stops - draft one, sign the best vet FA,  go for the best "dark horse backup" FA on the market.

 

It has to be recognized that even at the top of the 1st round, the odds are 50/50 at finding a QB who can play.

I would personally have been "OK" if McWrestler had walked in and cut Tyrod loose - said "he doesn't fit what we're trying to do here, we wish him the best in his future endeavors".   But you have to do a full-court-press, in that case, to bring in someone durable and competent.

 

We do have Tyrod under contract for another year, you know that, right?  He doesn't have an escape clause for next year.  Under the Dareus logic, though, I don't see the Bills keeping him.

Yeah, I know he's under contract.   I'm guessing his agent asks for a trade, maybe already asked.   If the Bills say no, they want to keep Taylor, he asks for along-term deal.  They'll say no to that, too.  So Taylor will play 2018 and exercise his option to get out.  I just don't see him swallowing his pride after McD has made it so abundantly clear that he has no confidence in Taylor.  

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You're missing my point.  It isn't about Peterman.  It's about Taylor.   I think you're absolutely wrong about Taylor.   I think it's a 90% certainty that Taylor will not be a Bill in 2019, because all he's gotten since McDermott and Dennison arrived are votes of no-confidence.   His head coach actually thought that Peterman was better than Taylor.   I think Taylor is leaving as soon as he can.  So your scenario where Taylor lights it up is a nonstarter.  It doesn't matter if they reconsider; Taylor won't.   So if Taylor lights it up the rest of this season and next, Taylor will get a five-year $125 million somewhere, and it won't be with the Bills.    Why would he stay with the Bills?   He can get the same money from some other team, and playing for another coach means he no longer have to worry about who McD thinks gives the Bills the "best chance to win."

 

The problem here isn't how they handled Peterman.  If Peterman is going to make it in the league, he'll make it.  The problem is that they mishandled Taylor. 

Yeah, I know he's under contract.   I'm guessing his agent asks for a trade, maybe already asked.   If the Bills say no, they want to keep Taylor, he asks for along-term deal.  They'll say no to that, too.  So Taylor will play 2018 and exercise his option to get out.  I just don't see him swallowing his pride after McD has made it so abundantly clear that he has no confidence in Taylor.  

I agree it is unlikely TT is back.  Because while effective when he is on the move, showing his running capability etc., they ultimately don't think his style and his deficiencies can get them a Lombardi.  

 

My original point, which seems to have been lost here, is that you seem to have gone from optimist to pessimist based on one coaching decision.  He thought Peterman would run the offense better, and it didn't pan out.  Would have been very interesting to see what happens last week if Benjamin doesn't get hurt and if DiMarco doesn't get stone hands the first pick.

 

One decision does not have that much weight  to change an opinion so drastically.

[Shaw66]

40 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree it is unlikely TT is back.  Because while effective when he is on the move, showing his running capability etc., they ultimately don't think his style and his deficiencies can get them a Lombardi.  

 

My original point, which seems to have been lost here, is that you seem to have gone from optimist to pessimist based on one coaching decision.  He thought Peterman would run the offense better, and it didn't pan out.  Would have been very interesting to see what happens last week if Benjamin doesn't get hurt and if DiMarco doesn't get stone hands the first pick.

 

One decision does not have that much weight  to change an opinion so drastically.

One decision caused me to change my view of what was going on.   Benching Taylor means they've decided there's no hope for Taylor.   It means they have to trade up in the draft to get a really good QB.   I have two problems with that.

 

One, I think it's foolish to give up on Taylor.   I may be wrong.

 

Two, it means it was really stupid to trade for Benjamin.  If they're trading up for a qb, that pick they gave up is very valuable.   

 

Since those two moves are inconsistent  with each other, it suggests to me that no one is actually thinking about the consequences of their decisions.   

 

Bottom line, if you've given up on Taylor, you don't trade your second round pick.   If you haven't given up on Taylor, you don't bench him.  

 

I really think these people don't know what they're doing.   And THAT's what made me pessimistic.  I can't reconcile two important decisions they made about the QB position.  

 

And then you add to that the point that others have made here, that McD haas had no answer over the past three weeks for a totally failing offense and defense.   The team has been completely uncompetitive, and McDermott apparently has no answer.   

Edited November 23, 2017 by Shaw66

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

One decision caused me to change my view of what was going on.   Benching Taylor means they've decided there's no hope for Taylor.   It means they have to trade up in the draft to get a really good QB.   I have two problems with that.

 

One, I think it's foolish to give up on Taylor.   I may be wrong.

 

Two, it means it was really stupid to trade for Benjamin.  If they're trading up for a qb, that pick they gave up is very valuable.   

 

Since those two moves are inconsistent  with each other, it suggests to me that no one is actually thinking about the consequences of their decisions.   

 

Bottom line, if you've given up on Taylor, you don't trade your second round pick.   If you haven't given up on Taylor, you don't bench him.  

 

I really think these people don't know what they're doing.   And THAT's what made me pessimistic.  I can't reconcile two important decisions they made about the QB position.  

 

And then you add to that the point that others have made here, that McD haas had no answer over the past three weeks for a totally failing offense and defense.   The team has been completely uncompetitive, and McDermott apparently has no answer.   

It was a third and a seventh forBenjamin.

 

i agree I have no idea what happened to the D.  It wasn't just the loss of the fat tub of goo in the middle.  As for the offense, that's why he started Peterman - thought he might run things better.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

It was a third and a seventh forBenjamin.

 

i agree I have no idea what happened to the D.  It wasn't just the loss of the fat tub of goo in the middle.  As for the offense, that's why he started Peterman - thought he might run things better.

And I would have rather had a full season of Watkins........  You have to pay for talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

The problem here isn't how they handled Peterman.  If Peterman is going to make it in the league, he'll make it.  The problem is that they mishandled Taylor. 

Yeah, I know he's under contract.   I'm guessing his agent asks for a trade, maybe already asked.   If the Bills say no, they want to keep Taylor, he asks for along-term deal.  They'll say no to that, too.  So Taylor will play 2018 and exercise his option to get out.  I just don't see him swallowing his pride after McD has made it so abundantly clear that he has no confidence in Taylor.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills tried to trade Tyrod, but here's the thing: if he's still on the roster next spring, Bills owe him $6M in addition to the accelerated bonus cap hit.

So if I'm a team that fancies Taylor, unless I really really want him right now, why not just wait?  

 

I could be wrong, but I don't see McBeane paying $16M for a guy they're willing to bench for a 5th round rookie.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

And I would have rather had a full season of Watkins........  You have to pay for talent.

 

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

And I would have rather had a full season of Watkins........  You have to pay for talent.

I said at the time I wanted them to keep Watkins.  But while I know you'll come up with your thousands of rationales for him, he's been little more than a decoy in LA.  And yes, I have watched some of the games.

 

Watkins cost himself money this year.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

 

I said at the time I wanted them to keep Watkins.  But while I know you'll come up with your thousands of rationales for him, he's been little more than a decoy in LA.  And yes, I have watched some of the games.

 

Watkins cost himself money this year.

No Goff (and McVay) have........  I said it elsewhere but if he stays healthy through the end of the season someone will pay him $10,000,000+ and hopefully not to be a decoy......

 

Can't catch what's not thrown at you (1 drop this season if people want to know).........

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

One, I think it's foolish to give up on Taylor.   I may be wrong.

 

Two, it means it was really stupid to trade for Benjamin.  If they're trading up for a qb, that pick they gave up is very valuable.   

 

Since those two moves are inconsistent  with each other, it suggests to me that no one is actually thinking about the consequences of their decisions.   

 

Bottom line, if you've given up on Taylor, you don't trade your second round pick.   If you haven't given up on Taylor, you don't bench him.  

 

I really think these people don't know what they're doing.   And THAT's what made me pessimistic.  I can't reconcile two important decisions they made about the QB position.  

 

It's not foolish to give up on a player if you aren't willing to use him to best advantage.  Now whether that latter is foolish, is another question.

 

There is a third possibility about the Benjamin trade.  It is possible they looked at him as the Rookie QB's Best Friend, the AJ Green to Peterman's Andy Dalton.  Despite the failure of the Watkins/Manuel pairing, it's not an unreasonable notion. Next to a good run game, a WR with the catch radius of a military helicoptor is a Good Thing

That would mean they discussed starting Peterman and benching Tyrod as far back as the Tampa or Oakland game.

 

If you've given up on Taylor but still want to win and plan to play your rookies, perhaps a 2nd round pick makes sense.

 

Make of that what you will.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

No Goff (and McVay) have........  I said it elsewhere but if he stays healthy through the end of the season someone will pay him $10,000,000+ and hopefully not to be a decoy......

 

Can't catch what's not thrown at you (1 drop this season if people want to know).........

 

 

Blah, blah, blah.  You're like an old record, and have tried to rob this thread brining up your Watkins stuff.  Take it to an appropriate thread.

[Billsfan1972]

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Blah, blah, blah.  You're like an old record, and have tried to rob this thread brining up your Watkins stuff.  Take it to an appropriate thread.

This is part of the larger debate that McDermott & Beane did whatever they could to handcuff the Bills offense and Tyrod.  The trade was terrible and imo led to the next domino of Boldin walking away.  

 

An offense that doesn't maximize their QB's strength, trading his most dynamic receiver who he was building a good rapport with, putting him under center, asking him to stay in the pocket........  Mistake after mistake after mistake.

[BadLandsMeanie]

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It was a third and a seventh forBenjamin.

 

i agree I have no idea what happened to the D.  It wasn't just the loss of the fat tub of goo in the middle.  As for the offense, that's why he started Peterman - thought he might run things better.

I also don't think the defense is all due to Marcell not being in for the 45% or whatever amount of plays he had.

 

I have started to wonder though if his absence leaves us without an enforcer. By that I mean somebody who gives other teams a reason not to cross lies with cheap shots or sneaky punches etc. The only one I can think of on offense is Richie and he is 35. Hughes isn't afraid to mix it up on defense but I am not sure how effective he is.

 

That is just total speculation but I will be looking for cheap stuff when I look at the film the next couple days.

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

This is part of the larger debate that McDermott & Beane did whatever they could to handcuff the Bills offense and Tyrod.  The trade was terrible and imo led to the next domino of Boldin walking away.  

 

An offense that doesn't maximize their QB's strength, trading his most dynamic receiver who he was building a good rapport with, putting him under center, asking him to stay in the pocket........  Mistake after mistake after mistake.

So going on 3 seasons, 3 differrent OC's and not being able to throw the football like any normal NFL Offense is the coach/GM's fault.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Figster said:

So going on 3 seasons, 3 differrent OC's and not being able to throw the football like any normal NFL Offense is the coach/GM's fault.

 

 

We have an OC who has said he's implementing his system and the it's up to the qb to play it, which is ridiculous.  The OC's job is to maximize the strengths of all 11 on offense, most important being the qb.  The HO & coach take away his best receiver (by a mile), who he has had success with and then the vet they signed walks out on the team.  Any answers for that one?  

[Figster]

17 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

We have an OC who has said he's implementing his system and the it's up to the qb to play it, which is ridiculous.  The OC's job is to maximize the strengths of all 11 on offense, most important being the qb.  The HO & coach take away his best receiver (by a mile), who he has had success with and then the vet they signed walks out on the team.  Any answers for that one?  

Why have an expensive/ elite WR that wants touches on a team that has the lowest amount of pass attempts in the league?

 

Boldin was over the hill and knew it IMO.

 

I did allot of boasting before the season started on how well the WCO matched Taylors skill set, while some of the more football savvy posters told me I was wrong.

 

I'm here to tell you now I was wrong...

[Happy]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

And then you add to that the point that others have made here, that McD has had no answer over the past three weeks for a totally failing offense and defense.   The team has been completely uncompetitive, and McDermott apparently has no answer. 

I suspect McDermott may have lost the locker room about 2-3 weeks ago.  I don't think there is really much of an explanation for the past 2-3 losses and how they have occurred this embarrassingly lopsided.  I was watching NFLN last night; Willie McGuinest seems to think that McDermott is not being transparent with the team and that they have shut down on him.

 

Whatever the cause, it is painful.  I hate being the butt of cruel jokes and hearing less than flattering conversations about how bad the only team I have ever rooted for, is.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

See this is where Belichick has been so much better than other coaches.  He doesn't have  a "thing" he does.  He has some base like he starts out with a 3-4 and Brady but  in a game setting he changes and changes quickly to what ever it takes.  If you show a base defense he'll come out with 4 rb's and line them all up as WR's.  He plays chess with everyone and he wins at it.  0n defense I saw us make in game changes earlier in the year and go from getting gashed to shutting teams down.  I think McD and Frazier can do that ............ or could do that.  Again the loss of Dareus might have changed that.  The stark contrast to that is on offense.  I have seen none of that from Dennison and the offense. 

 

Never trade Dareus or type of player during season. Should of been off season. Hate in season trades.

 

I think lack of replacement and killed team morale cause of it. Plus little other stuff.

16 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I suspect McDermott may have lost the locker room about 2-3 weeks ago.  I don't think there is really much of an explanation for the past 2-3 losses and how they have occurred this embarrassingly lopsided.  I was watching NFLN last night; Willie McGuinest seems to think that McDermott is not being transparent with the team and that they have shut down on him.

 

Whatever the cause, it is painful.  I hate being the butt of cruel jokes and hearing less than flattering conversations about how bad the only team I have ever rooted for, is.

 

I think all started to happen when they trade Marcell. They got lucky in Raiders game when ST could not hold on the football makes it easier for offense.

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

think all started to happen when they trade Marcell.

Certainly possible since the time Dareus was released and the blowouts start, coincide.

[BadLandsMeanie]

7 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I suspect McDermott may have lost the locker room about 2-3 weeks ago.  I don't think there is really much of an explanation for the past 2-3 losses and how they have occurred this embarrassingly lopsided.  I was watching NFLN last night; Willie McGuinest seems to think that McDermott is not being transparent with the team and that they have shut down on him.

 

Whatever the cause, it is painful.  I hate being the butt of cruel jokes and hearing less than flattering conversations about how bad the only team I have ever rooted for, is.

Per your first point, I don't know if they have shut down on him or not.

I know I don't know who he is. And maybe the players don't either. He is too positive and too squeaky clean and he hides his less admirable qualities too much. Everybody has negatives. He hides his too much.

 

The very first time I spoke to a head NFL coach Mike Mularkey made me the butt of a joke by twisting a question I asked. All nearby had a hearty chuckle. I wasn't happy in the moment but afterwards I liked him. He was real and he treated me like one of the guys is how I take that. He told me another time he was intimidated about having to face the Patriots twice a year. He didn't pretend.

 

I called his radio show a couple times, mind you I had done my homework watching film. He listened to what I said. He filled me in on some stuff. I had told him the Chargers had got our silent snap count somehow because watching frame by frame the first half I figured it out they started off the line a fraction of a second too soon. He told me I was right and that they saw it and changed it up later. I was asking him what was wrong with our offense. Something was wrong but I couldn't put my finger on it because everybody was doing the right things. He agreed with me, on the air, and later used the same word I had come up with to describe it in a presser. I was very mad when he quit but I am over that now and this was a real person. 

 

I think they may not be against McDermott but they also can't get attached to him if he is the same cardboard cutout to the players as he is to us.

 

As for your second point, I don't like that either! But how old are you? There is a very real chance I will be dead before the Bills ever turn it around. I am in no immediate danger and I could easy be alive in 20 years or more. But, the drought itself is getting to be that long.

 

So I have had to accept it and deal with it on that footing.  One part of that for me is I won't buy into a team until the organization does things the way I believe they have to be done. So far they have done that, this latest fiasco aside. Overall they are doing things the way I would in terms of the draft and draft preparation.

Here is the bright side as I see it. Strictly speaking the odds of winning a Superbowl are 1/32. If it takes 32 years I will almost certainly not be here. But, if you have an owner who is really trying, that cuts the odds I think by about half. So, 1 in 16. Pegula may not be off to a great start but he is trying. He very plainly is not here to make as much money as he can off the team. That is a blessing.

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie

[Happy]

2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

As for your second point, I don't like that either! But how old are you? There is a very real chance I will be dead before the Bills ever turn it around. I am in no immediate danger and I could easy be alive in 20 years or more. But, the drought itself is getting to be that long.

 

Thanks for the excellent reply.  As far as how old I am, well, without giving an exact number, I was a very young kid when Joe Ferguson, Joe Cribbs, Jerry Butler, etc were playing and we won the AFC East in 1980.  This is about when I started to root for them.  I followed them all through out the 80's, 90's (watched all four SBs), 00's, and until today.  I've heard the jokes - BILLS actually stands for Boy I Love Losing Superbowls.  If we had won just one, and probably should have won two of them, we would be considered one of the greatest franchises of all time.  But that is long gone, and I'm thankful that I'm still young enough that I should see them turn things around and make more SB runs.  

 

Not surprising that the first year is a bit rough, but I agree that it appears there is a plan in place.  This offseason, draft, and FA will be revealing as far as how 'real' Beane and McDermott are; have to nail the draft.  Then next year should start to show us what type of team they're building and the guys they want.

 

Agree that Pegula wants to win, which I'm thankful we have that kind of owner.  It looks like he made his coach and GM decisions and will see it through; and I think they'll get more than three years, which I think is good given the group that was brought in.  The lack of direction, poor coaching, poor drafting, and constant turnover is why we have 17+ years of futility.  Hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel.