Which is most fair and right?

[boyst]

 

 

Is there a link for that? I'm aware that more whites have been killed by police bullets but there are also more white people overall. The back and forth on this stuff with battling statistics is not productive.

 

If Colin Kaepernick feels that blacks are being targeted he should be expected to articulate why. If he uses good arguments people should listen, if he uses hyperbole, generalities and feelings then he should be ignored. The truth is what should matter as should striving to achieve our goals as a society. If the truth turns someone's argument to mush, then that person should eat a little humble pie and/or try to communicate better.

it's been posted 10000 times today alone dude

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

Is there a link for that? I'm aware that more whites have been killed by police bullets but there are also more white people overall. The back and forth on this stuff with battling statistics is not productive.

 

If Colin Kaepernick feels that blacks are being targeted he should be expected to articulate why. If he uses good arguments people should listen, if he uses hyperbole, generalities and feelings then he should be ignored. The truth is what should matter as should striving to achieve our goals as a society. If the truth turns someone's argument to mush, then that person should eat a little humble pie and/or try to communicate better.

 

Wait, you're expecting a BLM paragon to actually back up his feels with numbers...or barring that, formulate a coherent, rational opinion?

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

 

Wait, you're expecting a BLM paragon to actually back up his feels with numbers...or barring that, formulate a coherent, rational opinion?

but if they used facts, then they wouldn't have a soap box to stand on. It really hurts their cause when they need to substantiate their claims. At least we saw all those BLMs helping rescue people during the floods/hurricanes(or was that a bunch of racist texas conservatives in their personal boats rescuing people of all colors? oh yeah, it was the latter... dang).

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Wait, you're expecting a BLM paragon to actually back up his feels with numbers...or barring that, formulate a coherent, rational opinion?

I think he was asking TakeYouToTasker for numbers. Go back to your Metamucil you bitter old bastard.

Fwiw, I know very little about BLM but what little I do know I'm not in favor.

[OGTEleven]

I think he was asking TakeYouToTasker for numbers. Go back to your Metamucil you bitter old bastard.

Fwiw, I know very little about BLM but what little I do know I'm not in favor.

 

 

I was asking Tasker for numbers. I know I've seen them somewhere but can't find them. If 100 white people and 85 black people got shot by cops then black people are getting shot at a higher per capita rate. That is the point I'm making but I can't be sure it is valid without actual numbers. I'm not assigned racism as a cause (nor am I dismissing it).

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

I was asking Tasker for numbers. I know I've seen them somewhere but can't find them. If 100 white people and 85 black people got shot by cops then black people are getting shot at a higher per capita rate. That is the point I'm making but I can't be sure it is valid without actual numbers. I'm not assigned racism as a cause (nor am I dismissing it).

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399

 

Roland G Fryer Jr., the study's author, who is black has called his findings "the most surprising result of my career" in a NY Times interview.

[Kelly the Dog]

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399

 

Roland G Fryer Jr., the study's author, who is black has called his findings "the most surprising result of my career" in a NY Times interview.

From one city with a very diverse police force using data from the police force. That's proof. And even if you say, okay, I will take this data at face value, and I understand that a lot of the protesters are talking about minorities being killed, Fryer says that there is a lot of racial discrimination by the cops and blacks are much more likely to be manhandled, pulled over, arrested, beaten, etc. so using this study to claim blacks are not targeted or abused by the police more than whites is worthless.

[TakeYouToTasker]

From one city with a very diverse police force using data from the police force. That's proof. And even if you say, okay, I will take this data at face value, and I understand that a lot of the protesters are talking about minorities being killed, Fryer says that there is a lot of racial discrimination by the cops and blacks are much more likely to be manhandled, pulled over, arrested, beaten, etc. so using this study to claim blacks are not targeted or abused by the police more than whites is worthless.

It doesn't look to the individuals in those situations.

 

How an individual behaves during their interaction with police will largely dictate how the police handle that interaction.

 

If a culture has an undercurrent of distrust for law enforcement, and this leads to a display of body language or external expression which an officer finds consistent with suspicious or threatening behavior, he is well within his authority to act on it. This can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy situation, which is unfortunate, but not unreasonable. Look at the Eric Garner situation as an example of this.

 

Will that account for 100% of the discrepancy? I'm sure it won't, as I'm certain that there are individual racists willing to act on their inclinations in every profession, but they don't account for larger part of that discrepancy, as there just aren't that many actual racists out there seeking to do harm to others simply because of their race.

[Kelly the Dog]

It doesn't look to the individuals in those situations.

 

How an individual behaves during their interaction with police will largely dictate how the police handle that interaction.

 

If a culture has an undercurrent of distrust for law enforcement, and this leads to a display of body language or external expression which an officer finds consistent with suspicious or threatening behavior, he is well within his authority to act on it. This can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy situation, which is unfortunate, but not unreasonable. Look at the Eric Garner situation as an example of this.

 

Will that account for 100% of the discrepancy? I'm sure it won't, as I'm certain that there are individual racists willing to act on their inclinations in every profession, but they don't account for larger part of that discrepancy, as there just aren't that many actual racists out there seeking to do harm to others simply because of their race.

And you know this how?

[LeviF]

Again: why do we expect whites and blacks to have similar per capita outcomes for interactions with police when they don't have similar per capita numbers of interactions with police, don't have similar violent crime rates, and live in dissimilar neighborhoods when it comes to police presence?

[grinreaper]

And you know this how?

Mathematics.

[Kelly the Dog]

Mathematics.

. Not bad. But I would like to see the astute mathematics that I provided. Ha.

[grinreaper]

. Not bad. But I would like to see the astute mathematics that I provided. Ha.

Only if you lend him your abacus.

[OGTEleven]

Again: why do we expect whites and blacks to have similar per capita outcomes for interactions with police when they don't have similar per capita numbers of interactions with police, don't have similar violent crime rates, and live in dissimilar neighborhoods when it comes to police presence?

 

 

I would not expect what you described, but I would expect (hope) that the numbers would become equal when you account for economic circumstances, situational details, etc. In other words, I would think a reasonable expectation is that a black person that steals a car after beating up its owner and leading police on a chase then aggressively confronting them would have the same odds of getting beat up or shot as a white person who steals a car after beating up its owner and leads police on a chase then aggressively confronts them.

 

Statistics is a difficult science because there are always more factors for which to account, but it is a science. If the numbers indicate a small variance, it might indicate that there are some racist cops. That is more easily dealt with than a wide variance which would indicate a racist structure or system. What about a wide variance in Toledo but no variance at all in San Antonio. Is it fair to call them all "the cops"? I don't think so. I think it would mean Toiedo has some work to do. All sides and neutral parties should be willing to apply real math with the most reliable data and accept the results even if it doesn't meet their narrative.

 

Perfect math is not available. That is a fact and needs to be accepted by all. A quote from the study Tasker provided ia an example.

 

Relatedly, even police departments willing to supply data may contain police officers who present contextual factors at that time of an incident in a biased manner – making it difficult to interpret regression coefficients in the standard way.6

 

 

You have to analyze based on the best available data. You cannot expect perfect data. Some day, there will be a sensor on everything and perfect data will be available. The call for body cameras is an example of the call for better data but even that is far from the entire picture.

 

So where does that leave us? It leaves us in a place where there are a lot of blanks to be filled in and people tend to fill them in based on their own set of experiences and biases, all of which are wrong to some degree. As time and technology advance those blanks become fewer (that creates its own problems but that is a completely different topic) and systems can be more accountable. Everyone needs to look at themselves first before shouting their own conclusions from the rooftops.

 

We have the right to expect our systems to treat us all equally and fairly. Perceived injustices absolutely should be addressed and people are right to call them out through the use of their free speech right. If their perceptions are proven wrong, they ought to be able to accept that and not simply look for a way to look right. If the system is proven to be broken, it should be fixed, not violently destroyed. I'd be in favor of re-building the Toledo PD from the ground up to follow the lead of San Antonio if problems merited. I am not in favor of using the Che model of improvements based on the mental extrapolations of Colin Kaepernick.

[LeviF]

 

 

I would not expect what you described, but I would expect (hope) that the numbers would become equal when you account for economic circumstances, situational details, etc. In other words, I would think a reasonable expectation is that a black person that steals a car after beating up its owner and leading police on a chase then aggressively confronting them would have the same odds of getting beat up or shot as a white person who steals a car after beating up its owner and leads police on a chase then aggressively confronts them.

 

 

There's no way to simulate, much less quantify, what you're describing. Every deadly force encounter is different and every police force is different. But nuances like this are impossible to communicate when people who don't know jack **** about policing say **** like "why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hands?!?!?!"

[OGTEleven]

 

There's no way to simulate, much less quantify, what you're describing. Every deadly force encounter is different and every police force is different. But nuances like this are impossible to communicate when people who don't know jack **** about policing say **** like "why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hands?!?!?!"

 

 

There is no way to quantify it in 2017. Some day there may be.

 

There is an ability to take the best available information and determine whether it is likely blacks and whites are being treated differently. You cannot then go back and say an individual incident was racist but that is not the goal. The goal is to attempt to measure aggregate results. For example, if on a per capita basis the number of whites and blacks shot and killed were the same everywhere but way out of whack in Ohio, you might want to evaluate the laws of Ohio and how they are implemented, right? But you couldn't say that Joe Smith was targeted because his incident was in Ohio.

 

The goal would not be to pacify the dumbasses asking for knives to be shot out of hands. It would be to understand what is actually going on based on the best available data and adjust based on that. I know there are people trying to do this but they are not communicating well. And this leads to Kaepernick wearing pig socks and promoting Fidel Castro as a solution to a guy getting shot after attacking a police officer.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

There is no way to quantify it in 2017. Some day there may be.

 

There is an ability to take the best available information and determine whether it is likely blacks and whites are being treated differently. You cannot then go back and say an individual incident was racist but that is not the goal. The goal is to attempt to measure aggregate results. For example, if on a per capita basis the number of whites and blacks shot and killed were the same everywhere but way out of whack in Ohio, you might want to evaluate the laws of Ohio and how they are implemented, right? But you couldn't say that Joe Smith was targeted because his incident was in Ohio.

 

The goal would not be to pacify the dumbasses asking for knives to be shot out of hands. It would be to understand what is actually going on based on the best available data and adjust based on that. I know there are people trying to do this but they are not communicating well. And this leads to Kaepernick wearing pig socks and promoting Fidel Castro as a solution to a guy getting shot after attacking a police officer.

I am not agreeing with Kap here. If I had to choose I would say he shouldn't have done it. But it's always good to understand context and circumstance as well as you can.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/24/colin-kaepernick-debates-merits-of-fidel-castro-with-miami-reporter/amp/

[boyst]

I am not agreeing with Kap here. If I had to choose I would say he shouldn't have done it. But it's always good to understand context and circumstance as well as you can.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/24/colin-kaepernick-debates-merits-of-fidel-castro-with-miami-reporter/amp/

I once asked myself if Kaepernick could go back in time and change his decision would he?

 

I voted yes, because he is a !@#$ing moron who opted out of a million dollar contract

[LeviF]

 

 

 

The goal would not be to pacify the dumbasses asking for knives to be shot out of hands. It would be to understand what is actually going on based on the best available data and adjust based on that.

 

And that's already been done, for anyone paying attention. But the people pushing the BLM narrative have no intention of understanding what is actually going on. You fail to realize that you've swallowed their narrative whole by even acknowledging that there might be a problem with homicidal maniac racist cops.

 

The violent crime disparities between whites and blacks are well documented. In 2015 there were 987 fatal police shootings in the USA. Blacks made up 26% of those shootings. Of those, 36 "unarmed" black males were shot, though "unarmed" includes those who went for the officer's gun, were beating a cop with his own equipment, the results of accidental discharge during a struggle, and a bystander.

 

If BLM and co. actually had a legitimate gripe with cops, you would know about the white guy in Tuscaloosa, Alabama who came at a cop with a !@#$ing spoon and was tazed and then shot. But that doesn't suit the narrative. So guys like Michael Brown (who clearly attempted to take an officer's weapon - an immediate deadly force response was needed) become household names because it's convenient for the narrative.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I think he was asking TakeYouToTasker for numbers. Go back to your Metamucil you bitter old bastard.

Fwiw, I know very little about BLM but what little I do know I'm not in favor.

 

I was talking about Kaepernick.