jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 That is what I don't get, these QB's are better than people think. I go Mitch Trubisky if he is there. Why? He would be a perfect fit in a WCO which is what we are going to run now. I would respect him for that as well. The kid doesn't have to play this year. You are right on that. Trubisky + WCO ='s money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) Are you aware that no QB has been timed under 55 MPH at the combine in years and Watson was timed at 49? He throws the slowest football of any QB to come out in years and no successful QB has thrown under 55 at the combine since its inception. Is this concerning to you or anyone? It sounded a bit alarming to me. I feel like it's more significant than the annual hand size debate. They don't time all the QB's. So no. Funny to watch the tizzy people work themselves into over it. Edited April 10, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 They don't time all the QB's. So no. Funny to watch the tizzy people work themselves into over it. We don't have numbers from over 10 years ago but we do for the last 8-10 years. There are no NFL stars drafted in the last decade that throw under 50 MPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 They don't time all the QB's. So no. Funny to watch the tizzy people work themselves into over it. I myself, am not in a tizzy. I'm a Corey Davis guy. I heard one of the foremost national expert guys on the radio here in Denver and he was making kind of a big issue about it. Was the first and only time I had heard about it. We don't have numbers from over 10 years ago but we do for the last 8-10 years. There are no NFL stars drafted in the last decade that throw under 50 MPH. The guy I heard said the only guy to throw under 55 was Prescott at 54 and he had a shoulder injury at the time so nobody cared. I guess Brees threw 55 and that was the slowest anyone had thrown since they'd been doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I myself, am not in a tizzy. I'm a Corey Davis guy. I heard one of the foremost national expert guys on the radio here in Denver and he was making kind of a big issue about it. Was the first and only time I had heard about it. The guy I heard said the only guy to throw under 55 was Prescott at 54 and he had a shoulder injury at the time so nobody cared. I guess Brees threw 55 and that was the slowest anyone had thrown since they'd been doing it. Brees has a good arm. Peyton Manning went from HOF player to marginal backup when his arm failed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) We don't have numbers from over 10 years ago but we do for the last 8-10 years. There are no NFL stars drafted in the last decade that throw under 50 MPH. No we don't. What did Teddy throw at the combine? Matt Ryan? Matt Stafford? Andrew Luck? Sam Bradford? Ryan Tannehill? Derek Carr? Not to mention the 100 other backups, there are 7 NFL starters where we have no data. That's a significant chunk of the league, and closer to half of all semi-successful or higher QB's in the NFL. So that's quite enough of "we have the numbers." Half of the decent starters of the NFL ain't sufficient. I myself, am not in a tizzy. I'm a Corey Davis guy. I heard one of the foremost national expert guys on the radio here in Denver and he was making kind of a big issue about it. Was the first and only time I had heard about it. You sounded quite concerned. Edited April 10, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Honestly if is a pretty flat draft. There are probably 5 blue chip players. I would have no problem trading down. Reddick is the best LB in the draft imo. The drop off from Foster to Cunningham is pretty small in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 No we don't. What did Teddy throw at the combine? Matt Ryan? Matt Stafford? Andrew Luck? Sam Bradford? Ryan Tannehill? Derek Carr? Not to mention the 100 other backups, there are 7 NFL starters where we have no data. That's almost a significant chunk of the league, and closer to half of all semi-successful or higher QB's in the NFL. So that's quite enough of "we have the numbers." Half of the decent starters of the NFL ain't sufficient. You sounded quite concerned. We might not have the MPH on Stafford, Luck or Carr but they all have obvious arm talent. You're right in that there are gaps in the data but the principle is correct. Weak armed QB's are at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage. This is shown time and time again when a backup who can't make all the throws required is on the field and it limits the offense. I am with Shanahan on this, great arm talent is what you want as it puts defenses in much more compromising positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 No we don't. What did Teddy throw at the combine? Matt Ryan? Matt Stafford? Andrew Luck? Sam Bradford? Ryan Tannehill? Derek Carr? Not to mention the 100 other backups, there are 7 NFL starters where we have no data. That's a significant chunk of the league, and closer to half of all semi-successful or higher QB's in the NFL. So that's quite enough of "we have the numbers." Half of the decent starters of the NFL ain't sufficient. You sounded quite concerned. I'm a Bills optimist so I would certainly see enough highlights from Clemson if we drafted him to get behind it. But the guy on the radio did sound fairly concerned, which made me think about it more so than I would have thought about hand size or bench press reps. Which I think should concern everyone a little bit unless I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I'm a Bills optimist so I would certainly see enough highlights from Clemson if we drafted him to get behind it. But the guy on the radio did sound fairly concerned, which made me think about it more so than I would have thought about hand size or bench press reps. Which I think should concern everyone a little bit unless I'm missing something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Y6wUCzHYQ&t=5s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I dont think the Bills can pass of Hooker or Adams. Bills need help in covering TE's. Hopefully Hooker's injuries will allow him to slide a little bit in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROONDOGG55 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 What say you. If X player is still on the board at #10 who do you NOT trade out of #10 and take? For me there is only one and its Reuben Foster LB. Other than that I trade out period. REUBEN FOSTER. Not sold on Foster with his inability to handle himself in a public setting for the most important job interview of his life. Myles Garret is the only guy I would take without trading down and there is almost no chance he slides to ten. Trade down with the Browns and take Reddick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 We might not have the MPH on Stafford, Luck or Carr but they all have obvious arm talent. You're right in that there are gaps in the data but the principle is correct. Weak armed QB's are at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage. This is shown time and time again when a backup who can't make all the throws required is on the field and it limits the offense. I am with Shanahan on this, great arm talent is what you want as it puts defenses in much more compromising positions. What an argument. Yeah we don't have the data but we know what they were throwing. More importantly, we have no idea if it's possible for a a successful QB to just have a bad day and throw like crap. It happens all the time in baseball. The low number argument is silly. Of course the reason Blake Sims sucked was because of his poor arm. If Connor Shaw could throw a little harder, he would've been successful. It's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 What an argument. Yeah we don't have the data but we know what they were throwing. More importantly, we have no idea if it's possible for a a successful QB to just have a bad day and throw like crap. It happens all the time in baseball. The low number argument is silly. Of course the reason Blake Sims sucked was because of his poor arm. If Connor Shaw could throw a little harder, he would've been successful. It's nonsense. The argument is not that arm is the only factor. Don't spin it. Fine, who are comparable NFL stars with Watson's arm strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Adams, Hooker or Foster for me, no QB before the 3rd rd, this team need starters with an immediate impact, not someone who will ride the bench for a year or 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 The argument is not that arm is the only factor. Don't spin it. Fine, who are comparable NFL stars with Watson's arm strength? Teddy I'd say is right there. Alex Smith. At least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Teddy I'd say is right there. Alex Smith. At least. Neither are stars. Teddy threw 54 MPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 People who keep comparing this QB class to EJ Manuel have no idea how to evaluate an NFL QB prospect. Period. End of story. It is in no way, shape, or form, the same QB class. All you need to do is look at the stats and watch a few minutes of film to see that there are at least 3 QBs, probably more, in this draft who are miles ahead of where EJ was when he was drafted. Watch EJ play at FSU, he had terrible accuracy then too. It's not even close. I think Geno smith is a good example of a guy who struggle to transition from spread to NFL. He was able to wow with his arm strength in those pro-day throwing scenarios, and had fantastic numbers, but once you dissect them a bit you see that he struggled with the most basic things in the NFL. RG3 was able to get by on pure athleticism, and injuries have ruined his mechanics, and sapped him of the speed that made him hard to match up with. Arm strength and everything is great, but you need to be able to call plays in huddle, take snaps from under center, set protection, stand and deliver in the face of pressure, navigate a pocket, evaluate film, etc. All while remaining mechanically sound. So pretty much everyone coming out these days will be majority spread offense, so that's always going to be tricky. It comes down to identifying which one is most likely to improve in the NFL. Trubinsky - 1 year starter and a late bloomer - totally a wildcard but he seems to have more upside than anyone from that 2013 class. Watson - Doesn't seem to have a plus arm - played in a spread. Total gamer though and has a lot of heart and desire to be successful. Mahomes - Killer arm, played in a straight air raid offense. Weird mechanics will take time to adjust as mechanics are the key to precision and accuracy Brees has a good arm. Peyton Manning went from HOF player to marginal backup when his arm failed him. Ehhh - Mannings arm became an issue after his neck injury in Indy, and it was apparent. He still threw for like 55 TDs... But also - he's freaking Peyton Manning. He knew what you were doing before you called it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I think Geno smith is a good example of a guy who struggle to transition from spread to NFL. He was able to wow with his arm strength in those pro-day throwing scenarios, and had fantastic numbers, but once you dissect them a bit you see that he struggled with the most basic things in the NFL. RG3 was able to get by on pure athleticism, and injuries have ruined his mechanics, and sapped him of the speed that made him hard to match up with. Arm strength and everything is great, but you need to be able to call plays in huddle, take snaps from under center, set protection, stand and deliver in the face of pressure, navigate a pocket, evaluate film, etc. All while remaining mechanically sound. So pretty much everyone coming out these days will be majority spread offense, so that's always going to be tricky. It comes down to identifying which one is most likely to improve in the NFL. Trubinsky - 1 year starter and a late bloomer - totally a wildcard but he seems to have more upside than anyone from that 2013 class. Watson - Doesn't seem to have a plus arm - played in a spread. Total gamer though and has a lot of heart and desire to be successful. Mahomes - Killer arm, played in a straight air raid offense. Weird mechanics will take time to adjust as mechanics are the key to precision and accuracy Ehhh - Mannings arm became an issue after his neck injury in Indy, and it was apparent. He still threw for like 55 TDs... But also - he's freaking Peyton Manning. He knew what you were doing before you called it. Mahomes throwing off his back foot will get the ball there before Watson stepping into a throw with all his might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) Neither are stars. Teddy threw 54 MPH. He didn't throw at the combine. Nice try. They are both quality starters in the NFL and if Teddy hadn't gotten a freak injury, he had a very promising career ahead of him. Edited April 10, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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