TT gets probowl invite

[Big Gun]

Down 37-24 to Jets with 3:57 left, Bills have 2 timeouts left. Safe to say Jets more interested in keeping everything in front of them and having time come off clock. Bills score with 1:22 left to make it 37-31. Seems to have worked just like Jets wanted. Trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

Down 28-17 to Miami with 2:24 left, Bills have 1 timeout left. Same as Jets game keep everything in front of them and run time off clock. Bills score with .14 left left to make it 28-25. Seems to have worked again just how the opponent wanted. Trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

Down 41-17 to NE with 2:26 left and EJ Manual as QB (so this score can come off the totals if the last Jets game doesn't count either per CoT). Pats interested in running clock out more than caring if the Bills scored. Bills score with .30 left = garbage time.

 

Down 27-13 to Steelers with 3:38, Bills have 1 timeout left. Same as Jets and Dolphins, keep it all in front and trade score for time off clock. Bills score with 1:25 left to make it 27-20. Worked to a T again for the defense trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

4 garbage time TDs, 3 by TT and 1 by EJ.

 

Bills scored 399 points

Bills scored 3 defensive TDs

EJ led a garbage time TD against NE

EJ led them to 10 points vs Jets

 

Net 361 points for TT = 24.0 ppg.

Take away 3 garbage time TDs (Bills were down in games) for TT and net drops to 340 points or 22.6 ppg

 

Up 30-16 vs Arizona, Bills get garbage time FG with 4 minutes left +3

Up 38-16 vs SF, Bills get garbage time TD with 5 minutes left +7

Up 30-13 vs Cleveland, Bills get garbage time FG with 7 minutes left +3

 

So take away 13 more, positive garbage time points (Bills were up in games) and TT point total drops to 327 total points or 21.8 ppg meaningful points per game.

 

Just sayin'

Edited January 26, 2017 by old school

[Alphadawg7]

Down 37-24 to Jets with 3:57 left, Bills have 2 timeouts left. Safe to say Jets more interested in keeping everything in front of them and having time come off clock. Bills score with 1:22 left to make it 37-31. Seems to have worked just like Jets wanted. Trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

Down 28-17 to Miami with 2:24 left, Bills have 1 timeout left. Same as Jets game keep everything in front of them and run time off clock. Bills score with .14 left left to make it 28-25. Seems to have worked again just how the opponent wanted. Trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

Down 41-17 to NE with 2:26 left and EJ Manual as QB (so this score can come off the totals if the last Jets game doesn't count either per CoT). Pats interested in running clock out more than caring if the Bills scored. Bills score with .30 left = garbage time.

 

Down 27-13 to Steelers with 3:38, Bills have 1 timeout left. Same as Jets and Dolphins, keep it all in front and trade score for time off clock. Bills score with 1:25 left to make it 27-20. Worked to a T again for the defense trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

4 garbage time TDs, 3 by TT and 1 by EJ.

 

Bills scored 399 points

Bills scored 3 defensive TDs

EJ led a garbage time TD against NE

EJ led them to 10 points vs Jets

 

Net 361 points for TT = 24.0 ppg.

Take away 3 garbage time TDs (Bills were down in games) for TT and net drops to 340 points or 22.6 ppg

 

Up 30-16 vs Arizona, Bills get garbage time FG with 4 minutes left +3

Up 38-16 vs SF, Bills get garbage time TD with 5 minutes left +7

Up 30-13 vs Cleveland, Bills get garbage time FG with 7 minutes left +3

 

So take away 13 more, positive garbage time points (Bills were up in games) and TT point total drops to 327 total points or 21.8 ppg meaningful points per game.

 

Just sayin'

 

I respect your research and applaud you for doing so as way too often people just spout off stuff they havent even looked into. But I do greatly disagree with your conclusions and analysis of the data.

 

First, I greatly disagree with your use of garbage time, but thats ok. Second, I find it interesting that you are assuming to know the plan of the coach and DC by reading a box score. This is the NFL, and PLENTY of games have been lost late by late game quick scores. No coach just says screw it, we are up 12, lets play soft even though there is 4 min left in the game.

 

And lets assume there was prevent D in there somewhere...there is no more prevent once you get down in scoring range ever in a game that is within 2 scores...the last thing that coach and the D wants to do is give up a score where they can lose or tie on an onside kick after the score...so to take the score away all together despite every effort to stop it is utterly ridiculous in those scenarios and a completely wrong analysis of how that score played out.

 

Now, in regards to the stats you backed out based your belief of what you feel was earned or not. Do you think for one second that what you just did does not apply to every team in the NFL? Have you backed out every single score of every team that YOU feel somehow was not deserved then adjust their PPG so you can determine where the Bills rank in relation? Have you backed out every ST or Defensive score of every other team in the NFL too?

 

Also, the Bills ranked THIRD in TOUCHDOWNS scored in the 15 games under TT.

 

So to recap your argument...the ONLY points that count in the fourth quarter in NFL now are ones that happen ONLY in games that are close the whole 4th quarter? Meaning if we have a 2 score lead, any other points don't count and if we are down more than 1 score, those points don't count either. You do realize the game is played for FOUR quarters and that BOTH teams are trying to score or prevent scores ALL 4 quarters right? ESPECIALLY in games within 2 scores.

 

PS: Most those games were 1 score games until very late in the game...they were NOT blow outs and we were in it all the way to the end and the D failed in everyone of those cases. To categorize the scores as "garbage time" as if the D was not making every effort to prevent the late score which made them vulnerable to a loss in every single one of those games, is just completely false. Same goes for the wins...and wake me when you take away all the 4th quarter points of every team in the NFL that had big wins this year too.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Big Gun]

 

I respect your research and applaud you for doing so as way too often people just spout off stuff they havent even looked into. But I do greatly disagree with your conclusions and analysis of the data.

 

First, I greatly disagree with your use of garbage time, but thats ok. Second, I find it interesting that you are assuming to know the plan of the coach and DC by reading a box score. This is the NFL, and PLENTY of games have been lost late by late game quick scores. No coach just says screw it, we are up 12, lets play soft even though there is 4 min left in the game.

 

And lets assume there was prevent D in there somewhere...there is no more prevent once you get down in scoring range ever in a game that is within 2 scores...the last thing that coach and the D wants to do is give up a score where they can lose or tie on an onside kick after the score...so to take the score away all together despite every effort to stop it is utterly ridiculous in those scenarios and a completely wrong analysis of how that score played out.

 

Now, in regards to the stats you backed out based your belief of what you feel was earned or not. Do you think for one second that what you just did does not apply to every team in the NFL? Have you backed out every single score of every team that YOU feel somehow was not deserved then adjust their PPG so you can determine where the Bills rank in relation? Have you backed out every ST or Defensive score of every other team in the NFL too?

 

Also, the Bills ranked THIRD in TOUCHDOWNS scored in the 15 games under TT.

 

So to recap your argument...the ONLY points that count in the fourth quarter in NFL now are ones that happen ONLY in games that are close the whole 4th quarter? Meaning if we have a 2 score lead, any other points don't count and if we are down more than 1 score, those points don't count either. You do realize the game is played for FOUR quarters and that BOTH teams are trying to score or prevent scores ALL 4 quarters right? ESPECIALLY in games within 2 scores.

 

PS: Most those games were 1 score games until very late in the game...they were NOT blow outs and we were in it all the way to the end and the D failed in everyone of those cases. To categorize the scores as "garbage time" as if the D was not making every effort to prevent the late score which made them vulnerable to a loss in every single one of those games, is just completely false. Same goes for the wins...and wake me when you take away all the 4th quarter points of every team in the NFL that had big wins this year too.

That's the rub, we disagree on what is or isn't garbage time. You tell me I don't know the plan of the coach yet later say the last thing the coach wants to do is give up a score. Didn't you just contradict yourself! Your fooling yourself if you don't think the coach wants to play prevent to run time off the clock being up by 2 scores late in the 4th qtr. I don't agree with it but it is what they do, they all do it.

 

You're doing the comparing, i'm not, i'm just showing stats and I didn't back out every team because I wasn't doing a comparison. Sorry the stats paint your boy a little different.

 

I don't even know how you can say they were third in TDs in the 15 games TT played in. How do you even quantify that? Did you take away 1 game from everyone else? if so which game did you pick and choose? and why that game?

Edited January 26, 2017 by old school

[QB Bills]

That's the rub, we disagree on what is or isn't garbage time. You tell me I don't know the plan of the coach yet later say the last thing the coach wants to do is give up a score. Didn't you just contradict yourself! Your fooling yourself if you don't think the coach wants to play prevent to run time off the clock being up by 2 scores late in the 4th qtr. I don't agree with it but it is what they do, they all do it.

 

You're doing the comparing, i'm not, i'm just showing stats and I didn't back out every team because I wasn't doing a comparison. Sorry the stats paint your boy a little different.

 

I don't even know how you can say they were third in TDs in the 15 games TT played in. How do you even quantify that? Did you take away 1 game from everyone else? if so which game did you pick and choose? and why that game?

Pretty sure he meant going into week 17, when he was unceremoniously benched.

 

Tyrod's good. Some Bills fans are too jaded at this point to see it.

[metzelaars_lives]

All of these things are true:

 

The Pro Bowl is the worst thing about the NFL. It's embarrassing.

 

Being selected to the Pro Bowl as an alternate means very little.

 

You don't get selected to the Pro Bowl, even as an alternate, two years in a row if you suck.

[Augie]

All of these things are true:

The Pro Bowl is the worst thing about the NFL. It's embarrassing.

Being selected to the Pro Bowl as an alternate means very little.

You don't get selected to the Pro Bowl, even as an alternate, two years in a row if you suck.

True. True....and true. Like it or not.

[Big Gun]

All of these things are true:

The Pro Bowl is the worst thing about the NFL. It's embarrassing.

Being selected to the Pro Bowl as an alternate means very little.

You don't get selected to the Pro Bowl, even as an alternate, two years in a row if you suck.

So Trevor Siemain is good this year?

[CanadianFan]

So Trevor Siemain is good this year?

 

that's too funny!

[Augie]

So Trevor Siemain is good this year?

Was this his second Pro Bowl year? Details....

[FireChan]

All of these things are true:

 

The Pro Bowl is the worst thing about the NFL. It's embarrassing.

 

Being selected to the Pro Bowl as an alternate means very little.

 

You don't get selected to the Pro Bowl, even as an alternate, two years in a row if you suck.

I contest number 3.

[Marty McFly]

Down 37-24 to Jets with 3:57 left, Bills have 2 timeouts left. Safe to say Jets more interested in keeping everything in front of them and having time come off clock. Bills score with 1:22 left to make it 37-31. Seems to have worked just like Jets wanted. Trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

Down 28-17 to Miami with 2:24 left, Bills have 1 timeout left. Same as Jets game keep everything in front of them and run time off clock. Bills score with .14 left left to make it 28-25. Seems to have worked again just how the opponent wanted. Trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

Down 41-17 to NE with 2:26 left and EJ Manual as QB (so this score can come off the totals if the last Jets game doesn't count either per CoT). Pats interested in running clock out more than caring if the Bills scored. Bills score with .30 left = garbage time.

 

Down 27-13 to Steelers with 3:38, Bills have 1 timeout left. Same as Jets and Dolphins, keep it all in front and trade score for time off clock. Bills score with 1:25 left to make it 27-20. Worked to a T again for the defense trade a score for time = garbage time.

 

4 garbage time TDs, 3 by TT and 1 by EJ.

 

Bills scored 399 points

Bills scored 3 defensive TDs

EJ led a garbage time TD against NE

EJ led them to 10 points vs Jets

 

Net 361 points for TT = 24.0 ppg.

Take away 3 garbage time TDs (Bills were down in games) for TT and net drops to 340 points or 22.6 ppg

 

Up 30-16 vs Arizona, Bills get garbage time FG with 4 minutes left +3

Up 38-16 vs SF, Bills get garbage time TD with 5 minutes left +7

Up 30-13 vs Cleveland, Bills get garbage time FG with 7 minutes left +3

 

So take away 13 more, positive garbage time points (Bills were up in games) and TT point total drops to 327 total points or 21.8 ppg meaningful points per game.

 

Just sayin'

Cool now u have to adjust the rest of the leagues point totals too or it makes your point null n void cuz there is no longer anything to compare it to. In other words you moved the finish line,.

 

So their "meaningful" points per game will drop just as significantly.

 

Also if your trying to prove a point vs Tyrod why bring the EJ game in? jw

[Alphadawg7]

That's the rub, we disagree on what is or isn't garbage time. You tell me I don't know the plan of the coach yet later say the last thing the coach wants to do is give up a score. Didn't you just contradict yourself! Your fooling yourself if you don't think the coach wants to play prevent to run time off the clock being up by 2 scores late in the 4th qtr. I don't agree with it but it is what they do, they all do it.

 

You're doing the comparing, i'm not, i'm just showing stats and I didn't back out every team because I wasn't doing a comparison. Sorry the stats paint your boy a little different.

 

I don't even know how you can say they were third in TDs in the 15 games TT played in. How do you even quantify that? Did you take away 1 game from everyone else? if so which game did you pick and choose? and why that game?

 

Ok, lets address your questions. And I respect the fact that you are utilizing thought and reason in your responses, even if we don't agree...so kudos to you.

 

What you said about coaches wanting time to come off the board is obviously correct. Anytime a team is ahead they will obviously benefit from a reduction of the remaining game time. So I agree with you on that. However, this is where you analysis is fatally flawed.

 

1. Let's assume that a prevent, keep it in the middle of the field so the clock runs, D was deployed. I would like to point out, you are making that assumption based on a box score, not from going back and reviewing film. But let's just assume its true as its within reason to assume.

 

2. Under NO circumstances will the D, the coach, the DC just let up and let them score once they get within a scoring range in ANY game that is within 2 scores. This is a 100% fact, its not even disputable. No coach has ever just said "Go ahead and let them have the easy score so we can put the team in position to lose if we don't recover the onside". That has literally NEVER happened in the NFL, I would bet any dollar amount you could name on that.

 

3. In a game with less than 2 scores separating the outcome, the defense will always without question try and prevent the score even if there is almost no time on a clock. Games have been won even on hail mary attempts in both the regular season and playoffs...heck Aaron Rodgers has 6 of them himself. And in those couple of close losses you named, there was more than enough time to recover an onside and score in some capacity. And more importantly, you only used 2 example games because there is ONLY 2 games that this is even up for discussion about.

 

4. Plus, in a game where we are up and keep scoring, its even more ridiculous to take those scores out and say they are "garbage time" because it doesnt go both ways. Those defenses didn't go out and just do mercy prevent, they were still trying to stop the ball like any other drive. Just because you think those scores didn't affect the outcome does NOT delegitimize those scores by any means what so ever.

 

The point is, you are absolutely wrong to negate a late score by the offense in a game that is less than 2 scores. In no way is that all "garbage time" production. And most importantly, in those games you cited, the game was within 1 score until late, and we were even ahead in some, until the Defense completely failed.

 

Now let me directly answer your question I put in bold in your post above:

 

It was easy, I simply used the totals of all teams during weeks 1-16 as those were the weeks the Bills offense were led by Tyrod Taylor and hence comparing how our team scored in relation the rest of the NFL over the EXACT same time period. the Bills did not score a TD in week 17, so their final TD total was the same. Going into week 17 there were ONLY 2 teams who had scored more Touchdowns than the Bills...Falcons and Saints. This is a 100% fact, not speculation, not picking and choosing certain weeks...a straight weeks 1-16 comparison of ALL 32 teams.

 

And finally...your cherry picked stats don't paint Tyrod any differently. You are incorrectly trying to negate legitimate production to paint a false conclusion based on your personal biased towards him. I have no allegiance to him, if we could get a big time passing QB in here I would do it in a second. But you are trying to make HIM the problem and the reason the Bills are at 17 years in counting while completely disregarding how many points that offense put on board and also disregarding the atrocious defensive effort that gave up way too many points which was the TRUE achilles heal of this team.

[Big Gun]

Cool now u have to adjust the rest of the leagues point totals too or it makes your point null n void cuz there is no longer anything to compare it to. In other words you moved the finish line,.

 

So their "meaningful" points per game will drop just as significantly.

 

Also if your trying to prove a point vs Tyrod why bring the EJ game in? jw

No,no I don't as i'm not doing a comparison. Can't you read!

[Marty McFly]

No,no I don't as i'm not doing a comparison. Can't you read!

 

I like the stat work you did a good job. Jus kinda seems confirmation biased but I guess thats cuz I have no idea what you were doing there

[FireChan]

No,no I don't as i'm not doing a comparison. Can't you read!

You are wasting your time bro. The Church will contort themselves into knots over hairsplitting garbage time and prevent defense.

 

They cannot bear to admit anything that could be used to disrespect their god.

[Alphadawg7]

You are wasting your time bro. The Church will contort themselves into knots over hairsplitting garbage time and prevent defense.

 

They cannot bear to admit anything that could be used to disrespect their god.

Says the guy who specializes in made up information to try and sell false truths. #Priceless

[Big Gun]

 

 

It was easy, I simply used the totals of all teams during weeks 1-16 as those were the weeks the Bills offense were led by Tyrod Taylor and hence comparing how our team scored in relation the rest of the NFL over the EXACT same time period. the Bills did not score a TD in week 17, so their final TD total was the same. Going into week 17 there were ONLY 2 teams who had scored more Touchdowns than the Bills...Falcons and Saints. This is a 100% fact, not speculation, not picking and choosing certain weeks...a straight weeks 1-16 comparison of ALL 32 teams.

 

 

FWIW, the Bills did score 1 TD in week 17 vs the Jets but that's here nor there. Get your **** straight!

 

Talk about cherry picking stats to fit an argument. Yes, going into week 17 the Bills were tied 3rd with Dallas (48 total TDs), ATL and NO only having more total team TDs, NOT OFFENSIVE TDs like you are trying to potray. Tyrod really didn't have a hand in the D/ST TDs so that is not why i'm counting them.

 

Through 16 weeks and every team having one game left to play, their OFFENSIVE TD, (minus def/s teams TDs) production was

 

ATL - 58 TDs (5 D/ST TDs) = 53 TDs on offense

NO - 51 TDs (0 D/ST) = 51 TDs

DAL - 48 TDs (0 S/ST) = 48 TDs

GB - 47 TDs (0 D/ST) = 47 TDs

NE - 46 TDs (0 D/ST) = 46 TDs

OAK - 46 TDs (1 D/ST) = 45 TDs

BUF - 48 TDs (3 D/ST) = 45 TDs (could even take 1 more TD away and be at 44, as it was EJ leading a garbage time TD vs NE)

 

So the Bills were tied for 3rd in total team TDs yes, it only paints half the picture. Tyrod had them tied for 6th or alone in 7th in offensive TDs, depending on how you want to count the EJ, New England garbage time TD. And yes you absolutely 100% are cherry picking to fit your narrative.

[Augie]

Still very respectable and mixed with a lot of very good teams. The offense was not the problem.

[Maury Ballstein]

Still very respectable and mixed with a lot of very good teams. The offense was not the problem.

It was a problem vs Ravens, Steelers, Bengals, Miami 1, NE 2, Oakland, jets 2.

 

7 games offense was poop. They won the Bengals game at least.

[FireChan]

FWIW, the Bills did score 1 TD in week 17 vs the Jets but that's here nor there. Get your **** straight!

 

Talk about cherry picking stats to fit an argument. Yes, going into week 17 the Bills were tied 3rd with Dallas (48 total TDs), ATL and NO only having more total team TDs, NOT OFFENSIVE TDs like you are trying to potray. Tyrod really didn't have a hand in the D/ST TDs so that is not why i'm counting them.

 

Through 16 weeks and every team having one game left to play, their OFFENSIVE TD, (minus def/s teams TDs) production was

 

ATL - 58 TDs (5 D/ST TDs) = 53 TDs on offense

NO - 51 TDs (0 D/ST) = 51 TDs

DAL - 48 TDs (0 S/ST) = 48 TDs

GB - 47 TDs (0 D/ST) = 47 TDs

NE - 46 TDs (0 D/ST) = 46 TDs

OAK - 46 TDs (1 D/ST) = 45 TDs

BUF - 48 TDs (3 D/ST) = 45 TDs (could even take 1 more TD away and be at 44, as it was EJ leading a garbage time TD vs NE)

 

So the Bills were tied for 3rd in total team TDs yes, it only paints half the picture. Tyrod had them tied for 6th or alone in 7th in offensive TDs, depending on how you want to count the EJ, New England garbage time TD. And yes you absolutely 100% are cherry picking to fit your narrative.

Beat down. Get em son!

 

Garbage time TD's don't count because teams don't play prevent in the endzone!

Edited January 26, 2017 by FireChan