Ron Edwards vs. Pat Williams

[Typical TBD Guy]

I'm not here to discuss whether or not we can financially keep PW. What I want to know is how comfortable you all are if we do decide to stick with Edwards and let Williams walk.

 

Here's a general breakdown between the two:

 

Williams: 6-3, 317lb, 7 yrs experience, age 32, Texas A&M

 

Edwards: 6-3, 320 lb, 4 yrs experience, age 25, Texas A&M

 

I believe PW is generally regarded as the vastly superior run stuffer, but that Edwards may actually be a little better in rushing the passer than PW. Is that really true?

 

IMO, I'm pretty comfortable in letting Williams leave if he wants that $5 million a year contract which I suspect he will get from a team like the Vikings. Really, how vital was PW to our run stuffing game when he missed almost 50% of the plays (not his decision but the coaches...I understand that...but do you pay a guy who isn't in on 50% of the plays that much $$$?) Aren't we supposed to stop the run with "numbers" anyway, as Gregg Williams once so famously stated about our 46 D?

 

Discuss.

[bartshan-83]

The only beef I would have is that I'd feel like it would be the Ted Washington case all over again. We have a top notch defense and we let a guy go that was a huge anchor for us. I hate messing with success. But you are right, 5 mill per year is steep I think.

 

Also I don't like the idea of having 2 DTs that are more pass rush oriented. I think its best to have a run stuffer and a pass rusher. There is no way Pat wieghs 317 regardless of what any roster sheet says. The man is pushing 350+ and he is just a hoss in the middle.

 

However, we did just use are relatively high pick on a DT who barely sniffed the field last year. So maybe we can afford to lose him and use the money in other places where it would have not been available otherwise.

[Bear]

I'm not here to discuss whether or not we can financially keep PW. What I want to know is how comfortable you all are if we do decide to stick with Edwards and let Williams walk.

254023[/snapback]

 

My opinion is that we need one of two things:

 

1. Resign Pat Williams

2. Get a better #2 Corner than McGee, and let McGee back into the nickel slot.

 

If it's possible, I vote for number 2. I think Ron Edwards will do fine in place of Pat, but as you said he is more of a pass rusher. If Pat walks, they need to be able to have a safety cheat up and LB's stay in their lanes to help with the run. A good number 2 CB will be able to man up, allowing the rest of the team to focus on other things.

[eSJayDee]

I think a more important question is how well will/could Mr. Anderson replace PW.

In our current scheme as you allude to, PW is in on early downs, one can assume primarily due to his superior run dee skills, where as RE is often in on passing situations (& seems to be adept at providing pressure).

The way we currently play Dee, seems we don't let our DL play too many plays. I think that means that you must rely on at least 3, ideally 4 people to be able to contribute at DT. We have SA & RE. IMO, Bannan is adequate but certainly hasn't shown anything stellar. The question is how good is Anderson & since we've seen so little of him in games, I don't think any of us fans know.

I think the general consensus, to which I agree, is if we can get PW back for ~$3m, he's worth it; if he's looking for $5m - see ya.

Also, let me add that I think a more pressing issue w/ regards to our cap allocation is making sure our OL doesn't deteriorate & ideally try to improve it. I don't think you can depend on a rookie coming in & being a solid contributor on OL. Therefore, JJ &/or another FA signing I think takes precedence over what, if anything, we do w/ PW.

[soljc]

We need to sign Pat. Without him, Anderson is pushed into a backup role, and I'd like the flexibility of being able to use Edwards at end, if needed, because I'm not sold on Kelsay.

[LabattBlue]

If PW is really looking for 5 mil a year, it's time to part ways. Ron Edwards has played much better in a part time role the last couple of years and hopefully a rotation of him and Anderson would be adequate. The only scary thing is Anderson only DRESSED for three games as a rookie. I would expect a little more from a 3rd round pick. Hopefully he can get on the field a little more in 2005.

 

 

While on the subject of the defenisve line, any news on Krumrie for 2005. I believe his contract has expired.

[San-O]

I'm not here to discuss whether or not we can financially keep PW. What I want to know is how comfortable you all are if we do decide to stick with Edwards and let Williams walk.

 

Here's a general breakdown between the two:

 

Williams: 6-3, 317lb, 7 yrs experience, age 32, Texas A&M

 

Edwards: 6-3, 320 lb, 4 yrs experience, age 25, Texas A&M

 

I believe PW is generally regarded as the vastly superior run stuffer, but that Edwards may actually be a little better in rushing the passer than PW. Is that really true?

 

IMO, I'm pretty comfortable in letting Williams leave if he wants that $5 million a year contract which I suspect he will get from a team like the Vikings. Really, how vital was PW to our run stuffing game when he missed almost 50% of the plays (not his decision but the coaches...I understand that...but do you pay a guy who isn't in on 50% of the plays that much $$$?) Aren't we supposed to stop the run with "numbers" anyway, as Gregg Williams once so famously stated about our 46 D?

 

Discuss.

254023[/snapback]

 

 

Nice thread.

 

I agree with you. Keep PW for a decent contract #.

 

Also, I've read elsewhere that DT is one of a very few positions that a

GOOD rookie can actually come in and start or contribute the first year. There

simply are not nuances to this position that exist for many others. Especially

for a run support type of player.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

There is no way that the Bills can commit $5 million/yr to PW. If he holds to that number, he will be gone. If he is willing to make closer to $3 m, he will be back. At age 32, I don't know how many teams would be willing to pony up a $20 million/4 yr deal for him.

 

I will hate to see Pat go, but if some team is foolish enough to pay those dollars for a 32 yr old DT, we can only wave bye-bye.

[The Jokeman]

I believe PW is generally regarded as the vastly superior run stuffer, but that Edwards may actually be a little better in rushing the passer than PW. Is that really true?

 

IMO, I'm pretty comfortable in letting Williams leave if he wants that $5 million a year contract which I suspect he will get from a team like the Vikings. Really, how vital was PW to our run stuffing game when he missed almost 50% of the plays (not his decision but the coaches...I understand that...but do you pay a guy who isn't in on 50% of the plays that much $$$?) Aren't we supposed to stop the run with "numbers" anyway, as Gregg Williams once so famously stated about our 46 D?

 

Discuss.

254023[/snapback]

 

Judging by stats alone, which is an inexact science, Williams has collected 377 tackles in 107 games or 3.5 per game vs Edwards' 78 in 44 games which calculates to 1.7 per game. Of course Edwards probably hasn't seen as many snaps per game as Williams so it's tough to gauge if tackles is a good way to measure a DTs ability to stop the run. That said because Williams is usually playing on 1st and 2nd downs (primary run downs) I think it be safe to say Williams is a better run stuffer but to measure just how much better is tough to gauge.

 

In terms of pass rushing one would say that Edwards is infact better at getting to the QB. As looking at their career numbers Williams has 13.0 sacks in 107 career games in comparison Edwards has 7.0 in 44 games.

 

While I as much as anyone want Pat back, at the cost of $5 million per season I'd let him go as well. Edwards definately deserves a chance to prove if he can be a full time starter, while I know he struggled in that role in the early part of his career I think it was in part because of an inferior surrounding cast. You mention stopping the run in numbers, I think we do that now with the likes of Spikes, Fletcher and Milloy on the team.

[ch19079]

in the past i have called edwards a BUM several times.

 

but last year when he was in the game, he managed to get a few sacks. and he wasnt in for long. so i would say he is a better pass rusher than williams.

 

but IMO, a DT's first obligation is to stop the run. and from what ive seen, edwards can not stop the run. (or atleast not nearly as good as williams).

 

i like edwards comming in off the bench in passing situations, and to give williams a rest.

 

our run D would decrease with the loss of williams.

[jarthur31]

I'm not here to discuss whether or not we can financially keep PW. What I want to know is how comfortable you all are if we do decide to stick with Edwards and let Williams walk.

 

Here's a general breakdown between the two:

 

Williams: 6-3, 317lb, 7 yrs experience, age 32, Texas A&M

 

Edwards: 6-3, 320 lb, 4 yrs experience, age 25, Texas A&M

 

I believe PW is generally regarded as the vastly superior run stuffer, but that Edwards may actually be a little better in rushing the passer than PW. Is that really true?

 

IMO, I'm pretty comfortable in letting Williams leave if he wants that $5 million a year contract which I suspect he will get from a team like the Vikings. Really, how vital was PW to our run stuffing game when he missed almost 50% of the plays (not his decision but the coaches...I understand that...but do you pay a guy who isn't in on 50% of the plays that much $$$?) Aren't we supposed to stop the run with "numbers" anyway, as Gregg Williams once so famously stated about our 46 D?

 

Discuss.

254023[/snapback]

 

The younger guy is not nearly as productive as the old aging vet and hasn't proven he's starting material yet.

 

If Pat leaves there will be a huge gaping hole in the middle of the line. If we can't find a veteran replacement, then we might be in trouble.

 

Why Anderson hasn't played makes you wonder.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I agree with most folks in this thread that PW is a far more productive (even taking age into account) than Edwards, but unfortunately is a team is willing to give PW $5 mill annually that is too rich for our blood and PW is simply not worth tht much (particularly at his age with this level of production).

 

I would disagree with those folks who seem to be comfortable with Edwards because of his good rush production (finally after several seasons of bad production even as a starter for us) as a reserve last year.

 

He seems to much like Sean Moran was for us in that he was a wondeful sack threat as a reserve, however, when he had to pace himself as a starter to be productive the whole game it hurt his game.

 

I think the hopes here rest in Aderson proving that he can step up after he showed nothing as a rookie. The best hope for the Bills here is that TD is right that PW simply will not get the big offers he wants and that the market for ST (in conjunction with us freeing up some cap room by letting JJ go will give us the room to resign PW to a reasonable deal.

[seadog]

Pat Williams needs to resign.I thought that's why Eric restructured and Drew was cut to help free up some cash? Tim anderson is highly unproven and Ron Edwards is not a every down player. Miami needs Dt's bad, if he ends up with the dolphins or jets i will be pissed.

[BB2004]

I'm not here to discuss whether or not we can financially keep PW. What I want to know is how comfortable you all are if we do decide to stick with Edwards and let Williams walk.

 

Here's a general breakdown between the two:

 

Williams: 6-3, 317lb, 7 yrs experience, age 32, Texas A&M

 

Edwards: 6-3, 320 lb, 4 yrs experience, age 25, Texas A&M

 

I believe PW is generally regarded as the vastly superior run stuffer, but that Edwards may actually be a little better in rushing the passer than PW. Is that really true?

 

IMO, I'm pretty comfortable in letting Williams leave if he wants that $5 million a year contract which I suspect he will get from a team like the Vikings. Really, how vital was PW to our run stuffing game when he missed almost 50% of the plays (not his decision but the coaches...I understand that...but do you pay a guy who isn't in on 50% of the plays that much $$$?) Aren't we supposed to stop the run with "numbers" anyway, as Gregg Williams once so famously stated about our 46 D?

 

Discuss.

254023[/snapback]

 

It all starts with stopping the run. Keeping Williams for a reasonable price is acceptable but not for 5 million a year. It would be sad to see Pat leave, because like you said, it might be another Ted Washington situation.

[Bill from NYC]

KH, I sat in the first row at RWS for the Cardinal game behind the Bills defense. Listen, there is NO FRICKEN WAY that PW weighs 317 lbs. Please believe me, it is not possible. I am stating point blank that if he weighs an ounce, he weighs 350. My guess is closer to 370, and I am not exagerating one iota. On the sidelines, he looks as if he can barely walk, then he runs in and makes plays. He makes Edwards look small.

 

That said, it is hard to compare the two. Edwards is on the rise. PW is more than likely on the way down, present skills notwithstanding.

I dont think it is THAT big of a stretch to think that it is possible for Edwards to at some point be in the same class as PW.

Right now, it all comes down to salary cap, or so it seems. PW was not a full time player last year. It is very likely that his production will decrease. Personally, I am against giving him a large contract, especially one with a bonus that will hurt us down the road if/when he is cut.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

I like Williams, and hope he lowers his asking price, otherwise Edwards and Anderson will compete for the job. Frankly, I don't see this as a major X&Os problem because in run situations our DTs main responsibilties are to hold their ground at the point of atack, and occupy as many blockers as possible. This keeps oppossing OGs and FBs from picking up our LBs.

 

Edwards and Anderson have girth. I haven't seen anything of TA, but RE seems to be agile enough to get the job done. IMHO TD's playing his cards right with both PW and JJ.

[Ray]

I think we all love Pat Williams and want him back----for the right price. 3M/year would be a generous salary and I think quite fair for a 32 yr old DT. Pro Bowler S Adams is making less than that. I really think if you took the agent out of the process this would have been done long ago as Pat really likes Buffalo, wants to stay, doesn't want to move his family as he has been with the Bills for like 8 years. But some other team will pay him 5M/year but it really wont be that much as he will play for 2 more years and be a salary cap casualty. I hope he just tells his agent to strike a deal with the Bills!

[Dawgg]

First of all, Pat Williams will take a fair deal to stay with the Bills. I think if another team offered him $5M per season, he'd take 4 to stick around in Buffalo. He has a ton of ties there -- owns a body shop, his family is rooted there, he is an active member of the community. Not to mention, he absolutely loves Buffalo.

 

All this talk of Ron Edwards is premature. I think Pat Williams is one of the most underrated players on this football team. He plays with fire... he is an intense competitor and from what I have seen, unlike many athletes, he actually gets pissed off when the team loses. He is a team leader and most importantly, he plays like his hair is on fire. Did you watch that Pittsburgh game? Even Ralph noticed, Pat Williams was all over the field. He played like he was possessed... and that's what I want on our team. Would I roll the dice and hope Edwards plays like that? Probably not.

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

I'm not here to discuss whether or not we can financially keep PW. What I want to know is how comfortable you all are if we do decide to stick with Edwards and let Williams walk.

 

Here's a general breakdown between the two:

 

Williams: 6-3, 317lb, 7 yrs experience, age 32, Texas A&M

 

Edwards: 6-3, 320 lb, 4 yrs experience, age 25, Texas A&M

 

I believe PW is generally regarded as the vastly superior run stuffer, but that Edwards may actually be a little better in rushing the passer than PW. Is that really true?

 

IMO, I'm pretty comfortable in letting Williams leave if he wants that $5 million a year contract which I suspect he will get from a team like the Vikings. Really, how vital was PW to our run stuffing game when he missed almost 50% of the plays (not his decision but the coaches...I understand that...but do you pay a guy who isn't in on 50% of the plays that much $$$?) Aren't we supposed to stop the run with "numbers" anyway, as Gregg Williams once so famously stated about our 46 D?

 

Discuss.

254023[/snapback]

[TigerJ]

I'd love for the Bills to be able to sign Pat, but if they can't do it, I'm optimistic that Buffalo has enough depth at DT to still be effective.

[Tortured Soul]

My opinion is that we need one of two things:

 

1. Resign Pat Williams

2. Get a better #2 Corner than McGee, and let McGee back into the nickel slot.

 

If it's possible, I vote for number 2.  I think Ron Edwards will do fine in place of Pat, but as you said he is more of a pass rusher.  If Pat walks, they need to be able to have a safety cheat up and LB's stay in their lanes to help with the run.  A good number 2 CB will be able to man up, allowing the rest of the team to focus on other things.

254033[/snapback]

 

Our pass defense was ranked 2nd in the conference, our run defense sixth. I would've thought that was reversed. So, it's harder to argue that pass D should be the top priority. But, if we stick with Edwards and go after a Ty Law, Antoine Winfield-type CB who can play the run as well as the pass, we would be better off with option 2. In turn, stronger pass rush from Edwards helps the pass D. It could be a win-win.