Not happy with the TH for LJ trade!

[slothrop]

Backs who are better than TH:

 

- McGahee

- Holmes

- Martin

- Dillon

- Rudy Johnson

- Chris Brown

- Alexander

- E. James

- Steven Jackson

- Julius Jones

- Ahman Green

- Tomlinson

- Fred Taylor

- Tiki Barber

- Staley

- Portis

- Dunn

- Stephen Davis

- Foster

- Dominic Davis

- macCallister

- Kevin Jones

- Westbrook

- Jordan

 

Possibly others (tatem bell, TJ Duckett, Larry Johnson, etc).

 

I said it before and I will say it now - Henry is a stupid, injury prone, one dimensional RB.

Edited February 24, 2005 by slothrop

[/dev/null]

so can anybody actually post a link to a reputable source (ie not a message board or what you heard on tv/radio) that at least mentions LJ/TH trade agreed in principle (not close to agreed to, but actually agreed)

 

i won't worry about it until i read it on cnnsi, espn, foxsports, sportsline, etc, or even kffl

[GG]

so can anybody actually post a link to a reputable source (ie not a message board or what you heard on tv/radio) that at least mentions LJ/TH trade agreed in principle (not close to agreed to, but actually agreed)

 

i won't worry about it until i read it on cnnsi, espn, foxsports, sportsline, etc, or even kffl

251693[/snapback]

 

Will you take a report from a reputable source that says a deal is close?

[/dev/null]

Will you take a report from a reputable source that says a deal is close?

251737[/snapback]

 

what part of

(not close to agreed to, but actually agreed)

didn't you understand?

 

but hey, it would still be more than i've seen or heard other than message board chatter

[LabattBlue]

The Duhh here is really right back at you, Henry is a previous pro-bowler and is considered by many to be a top 10 RB in the league. Shelton has never gone to the probowl and is considered by NO ONE to be a top ten T at L or R in the league!

 

That malkes the trade uneven.

251255[/snapback]

I was commenting on YOUR statement from the originial post in this thread that "Henry is a starter and Shelton is a backup"

 

WTF does making the pro bowl or who is a top 10 at their position have to do with that.?

[JP-era]

obviously math isn't his strong point.......  

 

top ten buddy! keep plugging away, you'll find one i'm sure.......

251508[/snapback]

 

 

Didnt have ESPN Insider at work, at least it didnt log in for some reason.

 

Scouts Inc on ESPN agrees with me, but hey, who are they.

 

2004 Scouting Report - Football Scouts Inc.

Name: Travis Henry

Position: Running Back

Grade: 79 | Key

Alert: None

 

Comment:

Henry is excellent in terms of vision, patience and toughness between the tackles. Has good burst to the hole and has adequate to good top-end speed. He runs hard with good body lean and will consistently deliver the blow. He does a nice job of running with leverage and of protecting his body. He is not without his weaknesses most notably his fumbling. In the past two seasons as a premier load-carrier, Henry has fumbled the ball 18 times and has lost 11 of those. He also is just decent in pass protection, but he does continue to improve in that area. He does not have great size at the point of attack, he seems to get out of position from time to time, and he does a below average job of sustaining after initial contact. Henry is not one of the top five backs in the NFL but he is one of the top-10, and he should have several years as a quality/versatile starting running back left in him.

 

As far as Shelton, again you can read for yourself.

 

2004 Scouting Report - Football Scouts Inc.

Name: L.J. Shelton

Position: Offensive Tackle

Grade: 69 | Key

Alert: None

 

Comment:

Shelton is a good athlete for his size, he has tremendous upper body strength, he shows a good initial punch, he extends his arms, and when he is locked onto a defender, he can be very effective. At left tackle, he does not have what you are looking for athletically but he can be effective if he can get his hands on the defender, lock on with his long arms, and simply ride the speed rusher past the pocket. However, if you put him on an island and ask him to be an athlete and to handle double moves or great first-step quickness, he is going to be in big trouble as he is simply not very good in space. Because of his size, Shelton can dominate at the point of attack. Will push the pile in the running game, comes off the ball hard and can simply overpower DL to get the job done. He needs to continue to improve his footwork, but he has a good work ethic and will certainly give you good effort. Shelton has been somewhat of a disappointment thus far but he is still young enough to salvage a nice career if he's eventually moved inside to guard.

 

So Scouts Inc thinks Henry is a top 10 RB and Shelton has been a disappointment thus far. HMMMMM seems like a fair trade to me, NOT!

 

BTW, you may begin eating crow at any moment, smart a_s!

[JP-era]

Of course I can show you a site that says Shelton is a pro bowl quality Left Tackle.

251522[/snapback]

 

 

Waiting for the link on that one. I fessed my data, wheres yours? BTW, is it pro-bowl prospect or a guy who has gone to the pro-bowl. Wasnt Ryan Leaf a Pro-bowl prospect at one point? Henry has been there.

 

Guys, you may not agree but it appears that this is NOT a fair trade straight up.

[d_wag]

Didnt have ESPN Insider at work, at least it didnt log in for some reason.

 

Scouts Inc on ESPN agrees with me, but hey, who are they.

 

2004 Scouting Report - Football Scouts Inc.

Name: Travis Henry

Position: Running Back

Grade: 79 | Key

Alert: None

 

Comment:

Henry is excellent in terms of vision, patience and toughness between the tackles. Has good burst to the hole and has adequate to good top-end speed. He runs hard with good body lean and will consistently deliver the blow. He does a nice job of running with leverage and of protecting his body. He is not without his weaknesses most notably his fumbling. In the past two seasons as a premier load-carrier, Henry has fumbled the ball 18 times and has lost 11 of those. He also is just decent in pass protection, but he does continue to improve in that area. He does not have great size at the point of attack, he seems to get out of position from time to time, and he does a below average job of sustaining after initial contact. Henry is not one of the top five backs in the NFL but he is one of the top-10, and he should have several years as a quality/versatile starting running back left in him.

 

As far as Shelton, again you can read for yourself.

 

2004 Scouting Report - Football Scouts Inc.

Name: L.J. Shelton

Position: Offensive Tackle

Grade: 69 | Key

Alert: None

 

Comment:

Shelton is a good athlete for his size, he has tremendous upper body strength, he shows a good initial punch, he extends his arms, and when he is locked onto a defender, he can be very effective. At left tackle, he does not have what you are looking for athletically but he can be effective if he can get his hands on the defender, lock on with his long arms, and simply ride the speed rusher past the pocket. However, if you put him on an island and ask him to be an athlete and to handle double moves or great first-step quickness, he is going to be in big trouble as he is simply not very good in space. Because of his size, Shelton can dominate at the point of attack. Will push the pile in the running game, comes off the ball hard and can simply overpower DL to get the job done. He needs to continue to improve his footwork, but he has a good work ethic and will certainly give you good effort. Shelton has been somewhat of a disappointment thus far but he is still young enough to salvage a nice career if he's eventually moved inside to guard.

 

So Scouts Inc thinks Henry is a top 10 RB and Shelton has been a disappointment thus far. HMMMMM seems like a fair trade to me, NOT!

 

BTW, you may begin eating crow at any moment, smart a_s!

251920[/snapback]

 

care to attach a date to that blurb?? i think i know why your afraid to.......keep trying flunkie, you haven't found anything that agrees to your statement yet..

[Bill from NYC]

Shelton is a demoted LT, has been switched to RT before, and has never made the pro-bowl. In fact, he was a backup last year.

 

Travis is a pro-bowl running back, and with Edge, Shaun, and Rudi all being tagged, he is the best available RB out there.

 

Why in the hell do we trade a pro-bowl RB for a backup OL? Dont try to sell me that he is a stud LT, he isnt and wasnt, he was a backup and unlike the Bills was replaced with by a guy who was a G and doesnt look to be much better.

 

Henry is a starter, Shelton is a backup at this point.

 

With Moss being traded and getting as much as he did in trade value, why cant we at least get a 2nd from Travis?

 

Heres my specific points:

 

1) Shelton right now, today, is NOT an upgrade to Jennings

2) TD has already stated we werent good enough on O, why do you downgrade at the LT spot then?

3) Shelton at RT would be OK, but there are other RT's who can play just as well, Womack and McKenzie are 2.

4) There are team that need a feature back, Henry as a pro-bowl feature back is worth a hell of alot more than a serviceable LT, IMO

 

I just dont see that we are  getting enough value out of this.

 

And then to hear that Denny wanted a pick as well? are you frikkin nuts? well that a rhetorical question anyways.

251006[/snapback]

 

Well, what makes this a good trade for the Bills are the facts that Henry sucks, and LJ apparently does not.

Sorry, are you from the "Henry for Gallery" crowd?

[JP-era]

care to attach a date to that blurb?? i think i know why your afraid to.......keep trying  flunkie, you haven't found anything that agrees to your statement yet..

251931[/snapback]

 

These were posted fresh off the "scout player" function when you bring up a player in ESPN. Its an insiders priviledge. Check it out for yourself.

 

If you are a horse Im dragging to water so say and we can end this now, Im hoping your mind isnt made up.

[JP-era]

Well, what makes this a good trade for the Bills are the facts that Henry sucks, and LJ apparently does not.

Sorry, are you from the "Henry for Gallery" crowd? 

251936[/snapback]

 

 

No, Im from the crowd that thinks that this should be an even trade. Apparently we all disagree on who is valued at what.

 

I feel Henry is a top ten RB, therefore I want a top ten T in a straight up trade. You could argue that a top ten LT is worth more than a top ten RB but BOTH have been heavily tagged this offseason, so the front offices dont seem to feel that way.

 

If you say that Henry, as a top ten RB is only worth a top 15 T, fine. I hust see Shelton as even worse than that.

[d_wag]

These were posted fresh off the "scout player" function when you bring up a player in ESPN. Its an insiders priviledge. Check it out for yourself.

 

If you are a horse Im dragging to water so say and we can end this now, Im hoping your mind isnt made up.

251937[/snapback]

 

there old scouting reports, posted BEFORE the 2004 season.......you said he IS a top 10 back i.e. TODAY.........those blurbs are worthless........

 

you have nothing.........no one in their right mind thinks henry is a top 10 back today.......you can't even find a link that states that.......

[Bill from NYC]

No, Im from the crowd that thinks that this should be an even trade. Apparently we all disagree on who is valued at what.

 

I feel Henry is a top ten RB, therefore I want a top ten T in a straight up trade. You could argue that a top ten LT is worth more than a top ten RB but BOTH have been heavily tagged this offseason, so the front offices dont seem to feel that way.

 

If you say that Henry, as a top ten RB is only worth a top 15 T, fine. I hust see Shelton as even worse than that.

251942[/snapback]

 

View Travis as a "top ten" RB as you will. In truth, he is a top 10 loser. Why not examine his dismal record as a starter. He sucks, but perhaps the Cards really do need a running back enough to trade us Shelton for a future pick and this loser.

 

But hey, dont let me interrupt your fantasy of TH as anything more than a braindead, so-so at best running back.

[JP-era]

there old scouting reports, posted BEFORE the 2004 season.......you said he IS a top 10 back i.e. TODAY.........those blurbs are worthless........

 

you have nothing.........no one in their right mind thinks henry is a top 10 back today.......you can't even find a link that states that.......

251948[/snapback]

 

 

Clearly your pride has hijacked your brain and is running you into the ground. This is a pointless discussion at this point.

 

Even if the info was pre-2004. Henry was going into the season as the starter as was Shelton. The playing field was even at that point and still is. No one has devalued Henry any more than Shelton for sitting the bench last year. Facts are facts man, Shelton has gone to 0 pro-bowls, Hnery has gone to 1. Henry has been a solid 1000+ RB basically since he started, Shelton has been a disappointment. If you think the trade is fair, good for you, I dont. Point is that, unlike you, Im not out to prove my pride and Im hoping Im wrong on Shelton if this trade goes down.

[JP-era]

View Travis as a "top ten" RB as you will. In truth, he is a top 10 loser. Why not examine his dismal record as a starter. He sucks, but perhaps the Cards really do need a running back enough to trade us Shelton for a future pick and this loser.

 

But hey, dont let me interrupt your fantasy of TH as anything more than a braindead, so-so at best running back.

251951[/snapback]

 

 

look, I know you despise the guy, and no one is arguing he is gone. Why wouldnt you want the most you can get from him. Do you honestly feel that Shelton is it? If so, fine. I guess Id like to see more.

 

I agree about many of the character issues with Henry, I have no love loss for the guy and I KNOW that McGahee is our man. He DID go to a pro-bowl and he HAS earned all those yards in several seasons.

[d_wag]

Clearly your pride has hijacked your brain and is running you into the ground. This is a pointless discussion at this point.

 

Even if the info was pre-2004. Henry was going into the season as the starter as was Shelton. The playing field was even at that point and still is. No one has devalued Henry any more than Shelton for sitting the bench last year. Facts are facts man, Shelton has gone to 0 pro-bowls, Hnery has gone to 1. Henry has been a solid 1000+ RB basically since he started, Shelton has been a disappointment. If you think the trade is fair, good for you, I dont. Point is that, unlike you, Im not out to prove my pride and Im hoping Im wrong on Shelton if this trade goes down.

251953[/snapback]

 

you are entirely clueless........you claimed that henry is a top 10 back and many are of that opinion........THAT IS ALL THAT I CHALLENGED YOU ON........

 

he is not, no one else thinks he is, and you are still a fool.........try to stay on topic.........

[JP-era]

you are entirely clueless........you claimed that henry is a top 10 back and many are of that opinion........THAT IS ALL THAT I CHALLENGED YOU ON........

 

he is not, no one else thinks he is, and you are still a fool.........try to stay on topic.........

251967[/snapback]

 

 

Ahh, name calling sounds like the AOL IM server is down.

 

Grow up, kid. Once you do you will be removed from the ignore list.

[Bill from NYC]

Of course I would like to see more! I love the Buffalo Bills football team!

That said, what I want and expect are two different things.

 

If TD could pull off this trade straight up, I tip my hat to him as a GREAT GM. However in truth, more humans can run (and be lacking in each and every other phase of being an NFL RB) than can play LT.

 

Honestly, I am puzzled at how any truly serious NFL fan could disagree.

[Alaska Darin]

Honestly, I am puzzled at how any truly serious NFL fan could disagree. 

251979[/snapback]

That's because you breath through your nose, not your mouth.

[JP-era]

Of course I would like to see more! I love the Buffalo Bills football team!

That said, what I want and expect are two different things.

 

If TD could pull off this trade straight up, I tip my hat to him as a GREAT GM. However in truth, more humans can run (and be lacking in each and every other phase of being an NFL RB) than can play LT.

 

Honestly, I am puzzled at how any truly serious NFL fan could disagree. 

251979[/snapback]

 

 

Is that a challenge on my fanhood?

 

I an agreeing that a LT is a tough spot to play for sure. I think its tough to find a really good one. Lets hope Shelton is worthy of all of your admiration.

[Bill from NYC]

Is that a challenge on my fanhood? 

 

I an agreeing that a LT is a tough spot to play for sure. I think its tough to find a really good one. Lets hope Shelton is worthy of all of your admiration.

251985[/snapback]

 

No. I do not issue you any type of challenge in any way.

I am saying that it is FAR harder to find quality blockers than dumb, suckass running backs.

What I also wan to do is thank you for the dialogue. We truly should discuss this after things unfold.

This is going to be a GREAT offseason.

 

What I DO offer is this...I think that IF the trade goes down, it will cost the Bills Travis and a 3rd in 06. This is my official prediction. What is yours.....again, IF the trade goes down?

[VABills]

Waiting for the link on that one. I fessed my data, wheres yours? BTW, is it pro-bowl prospect or a guy who has gone to the pro-bowl. Wasnt Ryan Leaf a Pro-bowl prospect at one point? Henry has been there.

 

Guys, you may not agree but it appears that this is NOT a fair trade straight up.

251925[/snapback]

 

This trade is not fair straight up. The Bills will give an additional pick, if this trade goes through. However, I still hear that Travis is going to Oakland or San Francisco. So who knows.

 

This was posted yesterday.

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...8866&hl=shelton

 

http://notjustagame.com/articles/184/

 

The offensive lineman that the Cardinals are potentially willing to trade for Henry is what you would define big in LJ Shelton. A former first round pick by the Cardinals, he has became disgruntled in Arizona with Dennis Green and wants out. The Bills could definitely use him to open more lanes for Willis McGahee and give JP Losman extra-secured protection. He is a capable Pro Bowl lineman if he wants to be, and a new situation may merit that.

[GG]

Clearly your pride has hijacked your brain and is running you into the ground. This is a pointless discussion at this point.

 

Even if the info was pre-2004. Henry was going into the season as the starter as was Shelton. The playing field was even at that point and still is. No one has devalued Henry any more than Shelton for sitting the bench last year. Facts are facts man, Shelton has gone to 0 pro-bowls, Hnery has gone to 1. Henry has been a solid 1000+ RB basically since he started, Shelton has been a disappointment. If you think the trade is fair, good for you, I dont. Point is that, unlike you, Im not out to prove my pride and Im hoping Im wrong on Shelton if this trade goes down.

251953[/snapback]

 

Here's a stupid question, which you may be qualified to answer.

 

Does Scouts Inc. provide player ratings for fantasy football or real football?

 

My hunch is that the rating is for FF, where Henry was clearly a top 10 back based on points awarded. But don't let that get in the way of your wet keyboard.

[The Jokeman]

Here's a stupid question, which you may be qualified to answer.

 

Does Scouts Inc. provide player ratings for fantasy football or real football?

 

My hunch is that the rating is for FF, where Henry was clearly a top 10 back based on points awarded.  But don't let that get in the way of your wet keyboard.

252033[/snapback]

If go to http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/index.asp you will clearly see in their title that it mentions fantasy football. In terms of rankings, I'd have to dig around the site more. In terms of Henry, I've posted on more then one occasion he is not a top 10 RB in the NFL in terms of ability.

[slothrop]

I identified in a post above 24 RB's that are better (25 if rickey williams comes back). Henry has proven that he can not grasp NFL playbooks and game complexity. He misses blitz pickups, runs the wrong way, fails to pick up holes.

 

He is also one dimensional. HE can not block and he is terrible as a receiver. He has average to below average speed. That makes him a terrible liability when combined with his stupidity.

 

Oh yeah, he can't stay healthy and he has had fumble problems (arguably his fumbling has improved).

[GG]

....(arguably his fumbling has improved).

252163[/snapback]

 

Usually happens in proportion to bench duty.

[Alaska Darin]

Usually happens in proportion to bench duty.

252185[/snapback]

Or playing on "Crutchfield".