unbillievable Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 African Americans make up less than 13% of the population, yet comprise 37% of the 2.2 million male prisoners in jails right now. This didn't happen because there's a perception of an unequal playing field. It happened because there has been a systemic use of police and the judicial system to target and detain minorities. Do you believe a higher percentage of black people are in jail because of racism, or that they commit more crimes than other races? Do you support a race quota based law enforcement system like the Democrats have proposed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 What exactly do you mean by this? Do you agree that their perspective is wrong then? Do you think that they are justified in thinking the police "want" to kill them? It's not my place to say whether their perception is right or wrong. The folks who are protesting who feel police want to kill them are in the minority compared to those who are protesting the inherent injustice built into the system. There's a difference between those positions, but the focus in the media is always on the more sensational. The truth of the issue is, as always, in the middle. Do you believe a higher percentage of black people are in jail because of racism, or that they commit more crimes than other races? Yawn. Strawman argument and question. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Yawn. Strawman argument and question. Nice try though. Is it really? I believe there's some statistical evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Is it really? I believe there's some statistical evidence to support it. facts get in the way of feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 But we're not. Not really. The reality is the criminal justice system has been skewed along racial lines since this country was founded. The War on Drugs was a war on black folk and minorities and designed to bloat federal agencies at their expense. The US criminal justice system turned a blind eye while cartels ran (and continue to run) drugs into the inner cities while crafting legislation to designed to unfairly punish the poorest and brownest segments of the population. The sentencing disparity proves this beyond any reasonable doubt. The privatization of prisons only accelerated this. African Americans make up less than 13% of the population, yet comprise 37% of the 2.2 million male prisoners in jails right now. This didn't happen because there's a perception of an unequal playing field. It happened because there has been a systemic use of police and the judicial system to target and detain minorities. Your perception, as a white cop, is vastly different. But it's not representative of the reality for everyone. The reality is we have a system that disproportionately targets and incarcerates minorities... and we've had it since the beginning. That people are aware of this and upset by it shouldn't be surprising to anyone who knows their history. Agreed. But that's not what we're discussing, or at least not what I'm discussing. I'm addressing your original question which was how could some believe cops would be out to kill a person. The answer is because it's happened before. You can deny that all you wish, but it's as true as the statement you made above. Disagree. It's visual evidence of the issue. It's an ongoing issue, not an isolated historical incident. You asked for a reason why some would believe cops would kill. Those pictures are part of that answer. With all due respect, the amount of ignorant garbage you post around here discredits you from pretty much any discussion involving these issues. Your ignorance is unmatched. And while you claim to be above racism, your insensitivity about these issues can be easily misrepresented as evidence to the contrary. I didn't claim that there was. I said there was. And there's literally 239 years of evidence of this. The scale of these offenses can be debated all you wish. But that doesn't mean they aren't real or didn't happen. And of course these issues shape people's perceptions of police within their community, which was the point. Saying "I don't understand how people could think cops would be out to kill a man" speaks more to the bubble that person is operating in than it does the reality of the world. The data is there for you to see. It's clear and unambiguous. yes but you can clearly see i am just simply an insensitive !@#$ vs a racist !@#$. and the ignorance i spread is 90% intentional and bloviating dribble to rival that of the counter idiot and the 10% is actually ignorance from being a retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Is it really? I believe there's some statistical evidence to support it. Statistics that ignore crucial elements of the discussion. facts get in the way of feelings. Agreed. But so does really poor arguments. The one you're trying to make is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Wtf ? When did a bunch of community college kids get to start making rules ?May 4, 1970. It is O H I O. I would rather go it alone, even against the bad side of human nature and the sh*tstorm that would ensue than live next to an over-officious, trigger happy jerk hell bent on being hero-worshipped. Maybe it is just me: give me liberty or give me death. And we (yes, I say "we"... We the people) cry about the big bad gubermint coming down on us? That's quite a fancy narrative too? Look no further than the enforcement arm of that gubermint. Let me know who will be the one's carring out the marching orders of any cockamamie law passed out there. A bunch of hypocrites you all are! Edited July 13, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Statistics that ignore crucial elements of the discussion. Such as what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Such as what? Such as the true causes of drug abuse and crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Such as the true causes of drug abuse and crime. Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Statistics that ignore crucial elements of the discussion. Agreed. But so does really poor arguments. The one you're trying to make is garbage. Give up. You have no answer and you know it. You based your entire argument on one premise and it got destroyed by a single fact. Edited July 13, 2016 by unbillievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Such as? It has nothing, zero, zilch to do with race. No race has more of a proclivity for crime or drug abuse than another. It has much more to do with poverty, powerlessness, and desperation. Which, if you haven't been paying attention, this country has done a whopper of a job disenfranchising, dis-empowering, and keeping minorities from having an equal playing field for much of its existence. Give up. You have no answer and you know it. You based your entire argument on one premise and it got destroyed by a single fact. Incorrect. Your bunk argument isn't worth addressing because it's inherently dishonest and racist. Crime has nothing to do with race. ...Unless you're writing legislation about sentencing. Then race plays a big role. Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 It has nothing, zero, zilch to do with race. No race has more of a proclivity for crime or drug abuse than another. It has much more to do with poverty, powerlessness, and desperation. Which, if you haven't been paying attention, this country has done a whopper of a job disenfranchising, dis-empowering, and keeping minorities from having an equal playing field over it's existence. It's not a discussion of root causes of crime. It's a discussion of proportionality of commission of crimes. That's the explanation for higher incarcerations for blacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) It's not a discussion of root causes of crime. It's a discussion of proportionality of commission of crimes. That's the explanation for higher incarcerations for blacks. Disagree. That's a faulty conclusion to draw without looking at the entire picture. With that conclusion you're assuming that every crime and every criminal were policed and prosecuted equally. What we're discussing is an inherent kink in the system which determines not only who is policed and prosecuted, but how they are police and prosecuted. The numbers you and Unbilleivable are citing ignore this element entirely. Which is why it's a bunk argument. It's arguing something else entirely. And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place. Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 But we're not. Not really. The reality is the criminal justice system has been skewed along racial lines since this country was founded. The War on Drugs was a war on black folk and minorities and designed to bloat federal agencies at their expense. The US criminal justice system turned a blind eye while cartels ran (and continue to run) drugs into the inner cities while crafting legislation to designed to unfairly punish the poorest and brownest segments of the population. The sentencing disparity proves this beyond any reasonable doubt. The privatization of prisons only accelerated this. African Americans make up less than 13% of the population, yet comprise 37% of the 2.2 million male prisoners in jails right now. This didn't happen because there's a perception of an unequal playing field. It happened because there has been a systemic use of police and the judicial system to target and detain minorities. Your perception, as a white cop, is vastly different. But it's not representative of the reality for everyone. The reality is we have a system that disproportionately targets and incarcerates minorities... and we've had it since the beginning. That people are aware of this and upset by it shouldn't be surprising to anyone who knows their history. Agreed. But that's not what we're discussing, or at least not what I'm discussing. I'm addressing your original question which was how could some believe cops would be out to kill a person. The answer is because it's happened before. You can deny that all you wish, but it's as true as the statement you made above. Disagree. It's visual evidence of the issue. It's an ongoing issue, not an isolated historical incident. You asked for a reason why some would believe cops would kill. Those pictures are part of that answer. With all due respect, the amount of ignorant garbage you post around here discredits you from pretty much any discussion involving these issues. Your ignorance is unmatched. And while you claim to be above racism, your insensitivity about these issues can be easily misrepresented as evidence to the contrary. I didn't claim that there was. I said there was. And there's literally 239 years of evidence of this. The scale of these offenses can be debated all you wish. But that doesn't mean they aren't real or didn't happen. And of course these issues shape people's perceptions of police within their community, which was the point. Saying "I don't understand how people could think cops would be out to kill a man" speaks more to the bubble that person is operating in than it does the reality of the world. The data is there for you to see. It's clear and unambiguous. My original question was directed at ALF's disbelief that Sterling would reach for a gun when he had two cops on top of him. The implication in his/her original statement is that it is much more believable that the cops shot him, while straddling him, without any legal justification. It's easier for some people to believe that two cops (who are equipped with body cameras and are having their every move and statement recorded) would decide to brutually murder an innocent man in full view of their cameras and the public, than a convicted felon who is looking at certain prison time to attempt escape by any means necessary. It betrays common sense. But, if your argument is that the militant black community's position is based on a complete lack of common sense, then we can agree. A position that is based in illegitimacy does not become more legitimate with more fervor, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 All good for the gangs now. Hilly is into gangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Disagree. That's a faulty conclusion to draw without looking at the entire picture. With that conclusion you're assuming that every crime and every criminal were policed and prosecuted equally. What we're discussing is an inherent kink in the system which determines not only who is policed and prosecuted, but how they are police and prosecuted. The numbers you and Unbilleivable are citing ignore this element entirely. Which is why it's a bunk argument. It's arguing something else entirely. And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place. Am I understanding that you are saying that there has been some elaborate scheme by the government in the 40s, 50s, 60s to disenfranchise and keep minority communities downtrodden and poor? And, that these schemes somehow trickle down to the street cop in 2016? The present day white cop has a vested interest in killing innocent black men in order to perpetuate this scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Am I understanding that you are saying that there has been some elaborate scheme by the government in the 40s, 50s, 60s to disenfranchise and keep minority communities downtrodden and poor? And, that these schemes somehow trickle down to the street cop in 2016? The present day white cop has a vested interest in killing innocent black men in order to perpetuate this scheme? And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place. We have come to root of his argument. He thinks that there is a wide spread conspiracy among the white race. There are no facts that will convince him otherwise, because it comes from the white internet. Where is Tom? I think it's time for him to cite Critical Race Theory. Edited July 13, 2016 by unbillievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 http://www.wsj.com/articles/time-to-end-the-demonizing-of-police-1468363042 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) My original question was directed at ALF's disbelief that Sterling would reach for a gun when he had two cops on top of him. I jumped in on a separate point and unknowingly hijacked it. Apologies. Am I understanding that you are saying that there has been some elaborate scheme by the government in the 40s, 50s, 60s to disenfranchise and keep minority communities downtrodden and poor? No, it's not a scheme. The American justice system has a lengthy and indisputable history of unequal treatment between black folk and white folk. From the very creation of the country, through Jim Crow, through separate but equal, through the civil rights movements, through the War on Drugs, right on up to today. Historically there has been a vested interest by the some in power to deliberately disenfranchise the black community through both legal and illegal means. This isn't a scheme. This is historical fact. And, that these schemes somehow trickle down to the street cop in 2016? The present day white cop has a vested interest in killing innocent black men in order to perpetuate this scheme? I've never said nor do I believe either of these things. As I said above, I was responding to a specific point and question I hijacked from your conversation with ALF. Answering why someone would believe it's possible two cops would murder a black man. We have come to root of his argument. He thinks that there is a wide spread conspiracy among the white race. There are no facts that will convince him otherwise, because it comes from the white internet. Where is Tom? I think it's time for him to cite Critical Race Theory. Nope. That's not only untrue, it's far too reductionist. But it does make for a good strawman. Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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