Bill from NYC Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) That shouldn't be since they used a first round pick on DB every year.That's not true. This year we took a first round DE so Rex can call upon him to cover wide receivers. Get your facts straight. Edited May 12, 2016 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 we should use the triple option and wing T After reading this Dunne is nuts; if we really wanted to run the ball we have upgraded the right side and drafted/found a FB and Blocking TE. Also getting a real number two would have helped TT tremendously but hey who needs to pass the ball were just going run, run, run They already have Felton at FB and they signed Jim Dray as the blocking TE. Maybe you forgot that the Bills led the NFL in rushing last season and the run game will still be the bedrock of Roman's offense in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) You haven't made any points that haven't been entirely obliterated by irrefutable data and basic commonsense. Except none of the data in the way that you have presented it even approaches irrefutable. Hence numerous posters have been refuting it. Edited May 12, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Are we even going to get the definition of "core player" during this discussion? And a definition of "mostly?" Or perhaps you'd like to hide behind semantics some more. If not, this is the same crap. Leo playing 2 more games in 2014 was the gamechanger, not the DROY runner-up who replaced him. LOL city. I know the Big Cat school of discourse teaches to throw out words, then invent new and personal definitions after you are challenged, but let's try to be up front here. Starting a semantic argument to accuse others of having one. You're the best. Never change: Except none of the date in the way that you have presented it even approaches irrefutable. Hence numerous posters have been refuting it. You too. Always be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Starting a semantic argument to accuse others of having one. You're the best. Never change: You too. Always be you. No, my good man. I'm finishing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 No, my good man. I'm finishing it. Yes or no, the 2015 defensive personnel was similar enough to the 2014 defensive personnel that there should have been little to no drop off in productivity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) Yes or no, the 2015 defensive personnel was similar enough to the 2014 defensive personnel that there should have been little to no drop off in productivity? There should have been some slight drop off, but not nearly as much as there was. Because not only was it decently similar, some of the pieces we added were better. A top 10 CB more than offsets Leo playing a game or two more. Like a lot more. Like 2 wins more. Searcy and Graham at S were basically equal. AW's loss was a blow, no doubt, but even when he was in, the defense was not carrying the momentum of 2014. Same goes for Kyle. Bottom line, this defense, while healthy, got records set on them by Brady. It was reminiscent of the 2012 defense. Certainly, the 2014 defense also had a bad game against Brady. But it wasn't nearly as bad. If I had to rank the causes for the defense sucking and sucking hard in 2015, I'd rank them scheme > injuries > leadership. The injuries come second because without this stupid scheme, they wouldn't have mattered nearly as much. Edited May 12, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 There should have been some slight drop off, but not nearly as much as there was. Because not only was it decently similar, some of the pieces we added were better. A top 10 CB more than offsets Leo playing a game or two more. Like a lot more. Like 2 wins more. Searcy and Graham at S were basically equal. AW's loss was a blow, no doubt, but even when he was in, the defense was not carrying the momentum of 2014. Same goes for Kyle. Bottom line, this defense, while healthy, got records set on them by Brady. It was reminiscent of the 2012 defense. Certainly, the 2014 defense also had a bad game against Brady. But it wasn't nearly as bad. If I had to rank the causes for the defense sucking and sucking hard in 2015, I'd rank them scheme > injuries > leadership. The injuries come second because without this stupid scheme, they wouldn't have mattered nearly as much. There, now was that so hard? Fans point to the NE1 2015 as an abomination (it was) then follow it up, precisely as you did, saying 2014 NE1 was bad too, but "not nearly as bad." Sure, it wasn't AS bad. But it was pretty damn bad. And, in fact, it was NEARLY as bad. The biggest difference between the two games was NE inexplicably running the ball 27 times in 2014 vs. only 15 times in 2015. The result was 37 pass attempts vs. 59. That's where the statistically anomalies start piling up. But the 2015 Pats*, while they had a far more aggressive game plan, were not really that much more effective than they were in 2014, going 7.9 yards per pass attempt in 2015 vs. 9.76 in 2014. The point of mentioning this isn't to say that 2015 was better, one would expect yards per attempt to decline if you throw the ball a grotesque 59 times. Instead, it's meant to illustrate how easily they moved the ball in 2014. All of this is to challenge the notion that NE1 2014 v NE1 2015 should be a bench mark for how much the defense declined. In reality, the two outcomes, in a vacuum, indicate the decline was irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 There, now was that so hard? Fans point to the NE1 2015 as an abomination (it was) then follow it up, precisely as you did, saying 2014 NE1 was bad too, but "not nearly as bad." Sure, it wasn't AS bad. But it was pretty damn bad. And, in fact, it was NEARLY as bad. The biggest difference between the two games was NE inexplicably running the ball 27 times in 2014 vs. only 15 times in 2015. The result was 37 pass attempts vs. 59. That's where the statistically anomalies start piling up. But the 2015 Pats*, while they had a far more aggressive game plan, were not really that much more effective than they were in 2014, going 7.9 yards per pass attempt in 2015 vs. 9.76 in 2014. The point of mentioning this isn't to say that 2015 was better, one would expect yards per attempt to decline if you throw the ball a grotesque 59 times. Instead, it's meant to illustrate how easily they moved the ball in 2014. All of this is to challenge the notion that NE1 2014 v NE1 2015 should be a bench mark for how much the defense declined. In reality, the two outcomes, in a vacuum, indicate the decline was irrelevant. But they aren't in a vacuum. There are 15 other games to judge. And while the 2014 defense had bad games, they didn't get lit up by Kirk Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Another thread rotted from the inside by The TBD Worm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 But they aren't in a vacuum. There are 15 other games to judge. And while the 2014 defense had bad games, they didn't get lit up by Kirk Cousins. You're right, in 2014 that distinction belonged to rookie Derek Carr and the 140 rushing yards the Raiders piled up that day. Or the 427 yards they surrendered to Jay Cutler's Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Another thread rotted from the inside by The TBD Worm... Hijacked!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Who? Big Cat? He's the one who brought up the "heat maps". Probably. It's always to the conversation's detriment when data is introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Pride Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It is nice that we finally have a Offensive direction. I just wish continue to upgrade the talent and built on it and not just the defense. We did not add anything to help the offense grow but hopefully we can make up for the fact that we do not have an adequate right tackle or #2 wide out by using clay more this year. I think he was underutilized compared to his pay check and talent. If we can get him going like he was in Miami I think it makes up for the fact that Woods is a #3 wide receiver and that most of the SEC has a better right tackle then the bills do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 It is nice that we finally have a Offensive direction. I just wish continue to upgrade the talent and built on it and not just the defense. We did not add anything to help the offense grow but hopefully we can make up for the fact that we do not have an adequate right tackle or #2 wide out by using clay more this year. I think he was underutilized compared to his pay check and talent. If we can get him going like he was in Miami I think it makes up for the fact that Woods is a #3 wide receiver and that most of the SEC has a better right tackle then the bills do. They did quite a bit to upgrade the offense before the 2015 season with the additions of Tyrod, Shady, and Incognito. If they have good health in 2016, I see no reason why the cannot improve upon the production we saw last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Who? Big Cat? He's the one who brought up the "heat maps". Nope not BC - although he tends to get too excited about there being ONLY ONE ANSWER to every question, I wasn't referring to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Nope not BC - although he tends to get too excited about there being ONLY ONE ANSWER to every question, I wasn't referring to him... It's an opportunity for improvement--quieting my inner-only-child. It's a cool, biased statistical chart to fit your agenda. Maybe you should read through the thread again. Double check, you know? The math is just that. The qualifications for the numbers came from a discussion with 4merper4mer to bridge our separate biases. The colorizations are admittedly arbitrary. But they were most certainly the result of compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It is nice that we finally have a Offensive direction. I just wish continue to upgrade the talent and built on it and not just the defense. We did not add anything to help the offense grow but hopefully we can make up for the fact that we do not have an adequate right tackle or #2 wide out by using clay more this year. I think he was underutilized compared to his pay check and talent. If we can get him going like he was in Miami I think it makes up for the fact that Woods is a #3 wide receiver and that most of the SEC has a better right tackle then the bills do. They locked up Glenn and Incognito, brought in Cardale Jones and added a new Williams (an absolute necessity after cutting another Williams), drafted a burner at WR, signed a number of UDFAs, added depth at receiver last season and off season...So I have to say your statement that "we did not add anything to help the offense grow" is fantastical, and flies in the face of reality. But such are the times we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) You're right, in 2014 that distinction belonged to rookie Derek Carr and the 140 rushing yards the Raiders piled up that day. Or the 427 yards they surrendered to Jay Cutler's Bears. Derek Carr lit us up. Lol. Show the stats to back that one up. Or the YPC for the RB's. How many 3 and outs did we have that game?Another thread rotted from the inside by The TBD Worm...Only a coward sub-posts. BC has 21 more posts than anyone else in this thread. Time to call your optometrist. Edited May 12, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 This thread is tedious even by TBD standards. Not sure how Dunne's article vindicates BigCat's past comments about the irrelevancy of defense in football, but I'm glad to see that he's learned nothing and ready to turn another thread into the BigCat show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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