Deactivate Mario??

[3rdand12]

I don't understand why some just can't seem to accept parallel realities for the problems on the D side of the ball.

 

Rex Ryan and his defensive staff did a poor job coaching, especially in the aspect of maximizing skill sets to schemes.

 

Mario Williams up and quit on his teammates, coaches, and fans.

 

I know which problem is more egregious in my view.

 

And which one more readily fixed.

 

GO BILLS!!!

The issue with the concept is hard to focus the blame on the whole team. Either stay angry at Rex or be pissed off at Super M. !!!

 

Plenty of blame to go around for the season's lack of success.

 

Interesting wording and post K-9.

 

How in the world did this D frustrate Brady so much on MNF then go right back to being awful the rest of the way?

 

It makes me question effort in other games, in other words. Maybe both from coaches and players.

You solve this one, you win the WTF happened to this team this year prize.

this is the stuff that drives ya nuts.

Like watching Mario dump that RB.

That was art in motion.

 

Nuts! I tell ya!

 

Sorry? His scheme was flawed because they players were healthy? Eh? What on earth are you on about? Could Schwartz's scheme have looked less good had he been without key players for long spells - sure like almost any other scheme... but you can't tell me that is definitely the case. And Aaron Williams apart Rex had a healthy defense through most of the first 5 or 6 weeks.... how'd that work out? From game 2 onwards the highes we have ever been in total D is 16th.

Might be referring to to the Raiders game last year, Jim was clearly unprepared game time when Dareus went down. a game we should have killed.

 

I cannot compare last year to this year any longer. sweet crisp apples to bitter mealy oranges.

 

I certainly will compare this up and coming year to this soon to be past season.

 

And that defense has best make strides!!

Edited December 29, 2015 by 3rdand12

[boyst]

 

I don't understand why some just can't seem to accept parallel realities for the problems on the D side of the ball.

 

Rex Ryan and his defensive staff did a poor job coaching, especially in the aspect of maximizing skill sets to schemes.

 

Mario Williams up and quit on his teammates, coaches, and fans.

 

I know which problem is more egregious in my view.

 

And which one more readily fixed.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Simplistic view. Replacing a starting all pro DE next year is not going to be easy. Replacing a buffoon at DC/HC/whatever is much easier.

 

 

 

I'd have a much easier time swallowing the hyperbole surrounding Rex's so-called dismantling of the defense if:

1. This defense hadn't been decimated by injuries. If you're going to ignore this fact, I have no time for you.
2. They hadn't shown--at times--that the pieces/scheme is there to dominate.
3. They hadn't slipped to mediocrity. Fans talk as if the defense---as it had been from 2010-2013--has been ranked 25th in below in key categories. It's simply not. It's hovering around 15-20th with a 16th ranking in SPITE of all the injuries and Mario forcing the unit to play 10 v 11.

 

What team is not hurt by injuries? Pettine was ruined by injuries running the same defense and got much, much more.

 

Byrd, Aaron Williams, Carrington, Mario Williams were all injured.

 

I also will make an argument with no proof that many of our injuries this year are due to scheme. The high number of tackles and hits our DB's have taken are definitely a cause for concern. This is due to poor MLB play. This is due to scheme, too.

 

It's not? Why'd you post this?

 

What reason did you have for posting this to me besides manning your post and making sure everyone reads your pamphlet 100 times? Please, walk me through the thought process.

 

As for "Well, if you think 6 DC's in as many years and overhauling a system again is the way to go and that it's easier to do that than find players to match the one you got,"

 

We can't do anything for the last 6 years. Those are dead and buried. Not sure how changing from a 4-3 to 3-4 in 2011 matters today. Makes a good sounbyte though. Perfect little dash of sensationalism and no substance.

 

Quick question though. Why weren't you pounding the continuity drum this hard for JS? I mean, was 5 different DC's bad? Or, at that point, did you just say, "to hell with it, let's go for #6?"

 

And yes, it's easier to find one quality DC than multiple quality new players with our middling draft picks and salary cap status. Not to mention the opportunity cost associated with it. Chan was terrible at it, but Marrone did pretty well.

It is a puzzling stance he is taking defending the organization right now. I like Big Cat's thoughts and it's been interesting, though I disagree.

 

Your arguments against him are very good for not knowing crap about football, Mr 2nd place.

 

So in the same breath as calling me summarily wrong, you think the JS offer was something real? Okay.

 

Explain to me how "overhauling a system" worked out okay in '13 and '14? I mean, Pettine to Schwartz was a total overhaul. 5 DC's in 5 years Big Cat! It's a miracle they even knew where to line up, right?

 

Also explain how it is easier to find 2-3 new LB's, 1-2 S, 1 DE, 1 DT, 1 CB as well as a new RT, a new WR, and a QB prospect, than it is to hire a new DC and only have to do a quarter of that?

 

Also, JS has a lousy track record as an HC, but RR's is sparkling? Do you come up with these "opinions" before or after decisions are made by the FO?

I cannot wait until Rex Ryan is done here and he will be martyred. He will be remembered as the best coach who never had a chance by many. It will be hilarious. Rex Ryan is a crap coach and always was. He has the tools to get better but his track record shows he isn't a good coach. It isn't impossible to think he could pull out of this nose dive. He has a good offense and the talent on defense. ... I just find my head spinning on the what might be and maybes and should bes... it's overwhelming.

 

If we had a magic 8 ball for this situation it would almost always turn up negative.

 

 

So then we can't rely on anything we've been told? Well, that's an argument against 99% of discussion.

 

I agree that they're used differently, and that logic would dictate that since they were used optimally last year, that it's in some way a misuse this year. But the entirety of Schwartz's scheme was flawed and the 2014 performance benefitted tremendously from health. Kyle Williams missing a substantial chunk of the season and Mario Williams removing himself from the formula makes a for a disappointing incomplete from the unit, IMO.

 

You're entitled to your skepticism. But don't treat it as a a certainty, as you have been. I'm not certain it will happen. But enough has happened to convince me it could.

You have lost it. Clearly, lost it.

[3rdand12]

 

 

Simplistic view. Replacing a starting all pro DE next year is not going to be easy. Replacing a buffoon at DC/HC/whatever is much easier.

 

What team is not hurt by injuries? Pettine was ruined by injuries running the same defense and got much, much more.

 

Byrd, Aaron Williams, Carrington, Mario Williams were all injured.

 

I also will make an argument with no proof that many of our injuries this year are due to scheme. The high number of tackles and hits our DB's have taken are definitely a cause for concern. This is due to poor MLB play. This is due to scheme, too.

 

It is a puzzling stance he is taking defending the organization right now. I like Big Cat's thoughts and it's been interesting, though I disagree.

 

Your arguments against him are very good for not knowing crap about football, Mr 2nd place.

 

I cannot wait until Rex Ryan is done here and he will be martyred. He will be remembered as the best coach who never had a chance by many. It will be hilarious. Rex Ryan is a crap coach and always was. He has the tools to get better but his track record shows he isn't a good coach. It isn't impossible to think he could pull out of this nose dive. He has a good offense and the talent on defense. ... I just find my head spinning on the what might be and maybes and should bes... it's overwhelming.

 

If we had a magic 8 ball for this situation it would almost always turn up negative.

 

You have lost it. Clearly, lost it.

 

You dear sir are getting irritable.

 

And understood.

explained your self eloquently and forceful.

 

Lets say he does have the tools and the players potentially to recover from what appears a significant setback?

Besides firing him, and or hiring one year wonder ( i like the guy btw ) Jim Schwartz. What can the Bills do to fix this?

 

and preface with : SHOULD Mario be gone?

 

disclaimer i was a huge fan of his last two years. Dude can play.

not this year. I have honestly seen too much sloth

Edited December 29, 2015 by 3rdand12

[The Big Cat]

 

Sorry? His scheme was flawed because they players were healthy? Eh? What on earth are you on about? Could Schwartz's scheme have looked less good had he been without key players for long spells - sure like almost any other scheme... but you can't tell me that is definitely the case. And Aaron Williams apart Rex had a healthy defense through most of the first 5 or 6 weeks.... how'd that work out? From game 2 onwards the highes we have ever been in total D is 16th.

 

Schwartz runs a scheme that relies entirely on the guys up front. Without elite talent there, the scheme gets exposed. In 2014 his defense had a freakishly good bill of health. This is not an opinion, this is relative to all other teams, spanning many many years. I'm tired of "all teams deal with injuries." That's a non-response. The Bills did NOT deal with injuries last year on defense and some get hit harder than others, like the Bills have this year.

 

 

 

Simplistic view. Replacing a starting all pro DE next year is not going to be easy. Replacing a buffoon at DC/HC/whatever is much easier.

 

What team is not hurt by injuries? Pettine was ruined by injuries running the same defense and got much, much more.

 

Byrd, Aaron Williams, Carrington, Mario Williams were all injured.

 

I also will make an argument with no proof that many of our injuries this year are due to scheme. The high number of tackles and hits our DB's have taken are definitely a cause for concern. This is due to poor MLB play. This is due to scheme, too.

 

It is a puzzling stance he is taking defending the organization right now. I like Big Cat's thoughts and it's been interesting, though I disagree.

 

Your arguments against him are very good for not knowing crap about football, Mr 2nd place.

 

I cannot wait until Rex Ryan is done here and he will be martyred. He will be remembered as the best coach who never had a chance by many. It will be hilarious. Rex Ryan is a crap coach and always was. He has the tools to get better but his track record shows he isn't a good coach. It isn't impossible to think he could pull out of this nose dive. He has a good offense and the talent on defense. ... I just find my head spinning on the what might be and maybes and should bes... it's overwhelming.

 

If we had a magic 8 ball for this situation it would almost always turn up negative.

 

You have lost it. Clearly, lost it.

 

 

We'll see.

[K-9]

Simplistic view. Replacing a starting all pro DE next year is not going to be easy. Replacing a buffoon at DC/HC/whatever is much easier.

 

 

Simplistic because it's not complicated.

 

I don't give a crap if Mario is the second coming, when a player that selfish decides to quit on his teammates, coaches, and fans, he becomes a liability and has to go.

 

He's been the best player on that defense and yet, he has to go.

 

Two-time All Pro in his time here, and he has to go.

 

Yes, replacing an All Pro DE is going to be difficult, if not impossible.

 

Retaining a quitter is much more difficult.

 

I doubt the Pegulas are interested in being new owners who fire their HC after one season. Not a good optic. In practical terms, bringing in another HC with yet another staff and philosophy, typically doesn't work well in the short term.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 30, 2015 by K-9

[boyst]

Simplistic because it's not complicated.

 

I don't give a crap if Mario is the second coming, when a player that selfish decides to quit on his teammates, coaches, and fans, he becomes a liability and has to go.

 

He's been the best player on that defense and yet, he has to go.

 

Two-time All Pro in his time here, and he has to go.

 

Yes, replacing an All Pro DE is going to be difficult, if not impossible.

 

Retaining a quitter is much more difficult.

 

GO BILLS!!!

He's not the only that has quit on this team. Dareus has shown several plays worth of quit. McKelvin either quit or is confused. Wait, yeah, he's confused. But, he looks disinterested and ready to quit. Graham looks like he has given up but not quit. Bradham has shown signs of mental shut down - almost quit.

 

This team has quitters on defense.

 

Schwartz runs a scheme that relies entirely on the guys up front. Without elite talent there, the scheme gets exposed. In 2014 his defense had a freakishly good bill of health. This is not an opinion, this is relative to all other teams, spanning many many years. I'm tired of "all teams deal with injuries." That's a non-response. The Bills did NOT deal with injuries last year on defense and some get hit harder than others, like the Bills have this year.

 

 

We'll see.

I truly have enjoyed this with you, though, neither have budged an inch.

[The Big Cat]

He's not the only that has quit on this team. Dareus has shown several plays worth of quit. McKelvin either quit or is confused. Wait, yeah, he's confused. But, he looks disinterested and ready to quit. Graham looks like he has given up but not quit. Bradham has shown signs of mental shut down - almost quit.

 

This team has quitters on defense.

I truly have enjoyed this with you, though, neither have budged an inch.

 

The only time I'll actually get upset is when I'm accused of being inconsistent.

 

I know what I know. And I know what I don't know. Makes it easy to stay on message.

[boyst]

You dear sir are getting irritable.

 

And understood.

explained your self eloquently and forceful.

 

Lets say he does have the tools and the players potentially to recover from what appears a significant setback?

Besides firing him, and or hiring one year wonder ( i like the guy btw ) Jim Schwartz. What can the Bills do to fix this?

 

and preface with : SHOULD Mario be gone?

 

disclaimer i was a huge fan of his last two years. Dude can play.

not this year. I have honestly seen too much sloth

Mario, probably unknowingly, has become a potent run defender. Most will argue he has shut down the last two weeks and been sloppy but that does not mean **** to me. Over the last 3 years, since his hand/wrist issue got better, he has shut down the run on his side. This has helped LB's on his side tremendously. Mario has lost containment (prior to the last few weeks) only enough times I can remember counting on my hand. One of them was last year for a crazy big gain that I remember several of this boards higher knowledgeable people remarked about. I remember theBandit and Bll and I having a few good rounds of surprising banter.

 

Mario's skllset rushing the passer is straight up bull rushing. He does not have the swim moves or fancy move some other pass rushers have but what he does have is tremendous strength and speed. He can will himself to a QB. He has pushed 3 blockers in to the QB one more than a few occasions. But, when he misses he will be 5 or 6 yards up field which brings me to his fit with Rex Ryan's D.

 

Rex Ryan's D is not that impressive. It's weak and does not respond very well to what it faces. Rex Ryans D does not hold up very well with the men he has. I hope everyone read that a few times. His defense is set on getting to QB's that drop back and pass by blitzing/rushing LB's. By having multiple men stand up and let the offense guess where the rush is coming from. With the advent of zone blocking and quicker offensive plays (i'll touch on that in a minute) Ryan is unable to use his system to shut down most offenses. That is because he needs solid LB's.

 

When Ryan came here he said he would not change things up and meddle with the talent he has. He lied. FLAT OUT LIED. He took a team which masked issues at LB by using strong DL rushing and play to attack quickly. When we could not attack quickly - Dareus missing time in Oakland, for example - we were set up to be run on and allow the quick plays that Oakland beat us with.

 

Ryan wants to take our DL and have them as 3 or 4 men on the line, one of which will drop from time to time, and the other 3 create a boundary which contains and consumes blockers allowing free lanes for his LB's to run in. It takes smart LB's that are highly talented to be able to navigate an entire defensive field. Rex Ryan did that with David Harris and others in the Jets. His outside defense was the Revis Island we used to hear about; with an over the top Cover 1 safety sliding to where coverage is needed. The SS would help with the run and make sure there were no mistakes make; Jim Leonhard. Leonhard and Harris were lynch pins. He does not have either one of those here and does not know what to do without them.

 

So, if you ask me about Mario Williams who has twice been an All-Pro, twice been 2nd team All-Pro and achieved many other measures of success...than I can only tell you that I know he is very, very talented and has the ability to contribute in this league and has done so recently and much more successfully.

 

Therefore, I have to question what is going on with Rex Ryan, as I have done.

 

Conclusion: Rex Ryan lied to this organization, the fans and this team. Rex Ryan has been unable to achieve successful due to multiple reasons with this team but many of those issues are all too similar to the events that lead to his dismissal in New Jersey.

 

If I were looking at 2016 I do this:

• Bring in an outside consultant. I do this as the Pegula's WITH Doug Whaley, Rex Ryan, Russ Brandon, (he is listed above Doug Whaley on the site, oddly)
• Before this I sit down with Whaley and get his entire take on what happened this year. Then, the same to Brandon and all senior levels of management. I do this to Rex Ryan, as well. Thoroughly review each level of this team. It will be exhaustive and I would start it tomorrow, honestly. I want to know why we ran out of pizza logs in week 5. I want to know why the team store did not have more gear for cold weather at the opener.

1. I tell Rex Ryan to present me a plan for what he is going to do with the defense. I decide if it's worth anything or not. If is it not, I will have prepared a list of acceptable replacements brought in from an outside source and with the help of Brandon and Whaley...potentially Rex, too. As such, Rex is now not to touch the defense. It is on his coordinator until further notice. (I whisper to Whaley that if need be the DC will report directly to him).
2. I put Brandon on one side of the table and keep him there. Whaley gets the football team and anything he wants to run the football team. Both report to Terry and I.

 

 

• With their support or input I than find at least one person to bring in as a consultant in the professional sports world. It doesn't have to be Polian or even a football background guy. What's Condi Rice doing??? I would use them as a conduit to each department. An interloper tasked with checking synergy, among other things. This is as much about business as it is football. I want a strictly run organization for business. Not football.

 

• I would bring in each player that is part of this team and speak to them. I talk to Mario and attempt to restructure his contract. I look at the money on the table with everyone involved.
• I look at who we want brought in as a FA and tell Rex if he has any wishes he has to put them in now.
• I have Whaley report to me at least 3 times a week with the outsider. We go over everything, not as a measure to see that he is failing but as a measure of confidence to give him what he needs for success.

[K-9]

He's not the only that has quit on this team. Dareus has shown several plays worth of quit. McKelvin either quit or is confused. Wait, yeah, he's confused. But, he looks disinterested and ready to quit. Graham looks like he has given up but not quit. Bradham has shown signs of mental shut down - almost quit.

 

This team has quitters on defense.

I truly have enjoyed this with you, though, neither have budged an inch.

I haven't seen any other player take the last half of the season off.

 

I haven't heard any other player come close to ratcheting up the rhetoric to Mario's level, either.

 

We shouldn't confuse disappointment with quitting.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[boyst]

I haven't seen any other player take the last half of the season off.

 

I haven't heard any other player come close to ratcheting up the rhetoric to Mario's level, either.

 

We shouldn't confuse disappointment with quitting.

 

GO BILLS!!!

whats that mean when it is one of your teams best, one of your teams leaders constantly saying something?

 

what would you do if you were the coach?

 

why hasn't rex done anything?

 

that rex has not done anything is why I have serious questions about rex ryan more so than mario williams.

[The Big Cat]

whats that mean when it is one of your teams best, one of your teams leaders constantly saying something?

 

what would you do if you were the coach?

 

why hasn't rex done anything?

 

that rex has not done anything is why I have serious questions about rex ryan more so than mario williams.

 

Mario isn't nor ever was a leader on this team.

[3rdand12]

.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

 

I had no idea.

 

Your post should be considered as an excellent tutorial to critical thinking and should be pinned somehow.

 

I have read your kind effort 3 times now. and wish to read it again.

your effort and consideration to my question is much more than i expected.

and Greatly appreciated.

Respect to you. Literally.

 

okay now its 4 times.

 

Good to see you riled up a bit

[K-9]

whats that mean when it is one of your teams best, one of your teams leaders constantly saying something?

 

what would you do if you were the coach?

 

why hasn't rex done anything?

 

that rex has not done anything is why I have serious questions about rex ryan more so than mario williams.

As I've said all along, it's OK to criticize Ryan's coaching while at the same time making the determination that MW quit on his teammates, coaches, and fans and has to go as a result. Rex should have deactivated Mario, but I can understand why he didn't while there was still a chance. He should have done it after the Washington game.

 

I think we can do better at the HC position, but I would be shocked if the Pegulas did a one and done with Ryan.

 

Mario has to go, regardless. He's revealed his total lack of football character.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[The Big Cat]

.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

 

I had no idea.

 

Your post should be considered as an excellent tutorial to critical thinking and should be pinned somehow.

 

I have read your kind effort 3 times now. and wish to read it again.

your effort and consideration to my question is much more than i expected.

and Greatly appreciated.

Respect to you. Literally.

 

okay now its 4 times.

 

Good to see you riled up a bit

 

Who are you talking to?

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I'd have a much easier time swallowing the hyperbole surrounding Rex's so-called dismantling of the defense if:

1. This defense hadn't been decimated by injuries. If you're going to ignore this fact, I have no time for you.
2. They hadn't shown--at times--that the pieces/scheme is there to dominate.
3. They hadn't slipped to mediocrity. Fans talk as if the defense---as it had been from 2010-2013--has been ranked 25th in below in key categories. It's simply not. It's hovering around 15-20th with a 16th ranking in SPITE of all the injuries and Mario forcing the unit to play 10 v 11.

 

I'm more or less on your side of the debate here, but please, let's not sugarcoat the defensive performance -- the defense sucks regardless of the injuries. They are 29th according to FO, and that sounds entirely correct: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef. What gives me hope is the set of stats I posted above: Rex's track record is freaking great on defense, and once we get the right players, I expect improvement. We can complain about 2015 forever--and I'm sure many here will--but the past is the past. Time to move forward--and time to cut Williams at the appropriate moment.

[3rdand12]

 

Mario isn't nor ever was a leader on this team.

So get to catch a glimpse of highlights and reviews etc.

I noticed that Rex spoke directly to Mario more than once. as if he was going to set the line. Then i noticed at times he is the one helping Preston call the play. like a said its a shame. I dont pretend to understand the game as some folks here. Thats for sure!

But i have seen some odd stuff. and I dont feel it's a cut and dried animal.

 

Mario might well be a leader. either expected, or just intuitively.

Maybe that is not just something he dealt with well.

heart on sleeve guy??

[The Big Cat]

I'm more or less on your side of the debate here, but please, let's not sugarcoat the defensive performance -- the defense sucks regardless of the injuries. They are 29th according to FO, and that sounds entirely correct: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef. What gives me hope is the set of stats I posted above: Rex's track record is freaking great on defense, and once we get the right players, I expect improvement. We can complain about 2015 forever--and I'm sure many here will--but the past is the past. Time to move forward--and time to cut Williams at the appropriate moment.

 

I never profess to have THE answer. Injuries aren't THE reason for the setback. But injuries really really really hurt this defense. Come one. To say otherwise is absurd.

 

But the biggest injury--by far--was Aaron Williams. I've been saying this since September: losing Aaron Williams was the death knell for any prayer this defense might have had in this new scheme.

 

Would love to see Jeremy Cash come in and fill his role next year if he's going to hang it up for good.

Edited December 30, 2015 by The Big Cat

[3rdand12]

 

Who are you talking to?

who responded to me. whom else?

this board is getting more challenging each day after such EPIC FAILURe from OBD.

[dave mcbride]

 

I never profess to have THE answer. Injuries aren't THE reason for the setback. But injuries really really really hurt this defense. Come one. To say otherwise is absurd.

 

But the biggest injury--by far--was Aaron Williams. I've been saying this since September: losing Aaron Williams was the death knell for any prayer this defense might have had in this new scheme.

 

Would love to see Jeremy Cash come in and fill his role next year if he's going to hang it up for good.

I certainly do think that injuries were a problem, but I also think that Williams is a dumb (albeit fiery) player. I don't think his absence had much to do with the issues regarding communication and getting in the right set (the safety's job in this defense). He's eminently replaceable, and he should retire anyway -- there's no reason to risk paralysis.

Edited December 30, 2015 by dave mcbride

[3rdand12]

 

I never profess to have THE answer. Injuries aren't THE reason for the setback. But injuries really really really hurt this defense. Come one. To say otherwise is absurd.

 

But the biggest injury--by far--was Aaron Williams. I've been saying this since September: losing Aaron Williams was the death knell for any prayer this defense might have had in this new scheme.

 

Would love to see Jeremy Cash come in and fill his role next year if he's going to hang it up for good.

A williams? Maybe. They were playing lost even back then. But Aaron probably was getting the hang of it. Rex's scheme and terminology.

The drop off behind him was proven significant ( excepting the vet Graham)

Probably reps in TC and preseason and a horrid learning curve?