3rdnlng Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 We not only need a conservative, but we need a leader who is not afraid to use the bully pulpit. The person needs to be a man/woman of intelligence and conviction. A great communicator too. A Ronald Reagan would do nicely but since that's not possible we're going to have to choose from what's out there with the 16(?) potential Republican candidates. I rank the needed presidential attributes in this order: Conservative (not necessarily socially conservative) Leader Conviction Intelligence Experience Communicator--affability Which candidates possess a modicum of the above abilities and which candidates are lacking? My mind is fairly open since I haven't seriously looked at each candidate. I do feel that Trump will never pass the litmus test because he's never been a true conservative, thus lacking conviction and doesn't communicate well enough to those that aren't already rabid followers. So far I wouldn't give Bush a high mark on any of those other than possibly experience. He's like the Matt Cassel of presidential candidates. Jump in guys and let's start judging the candidates. If you think I've missed a major attribute for a president please bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Not a career politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 An individual with libertarian leanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Ronald Reagan? You Conservatives would hate Reagan now. Edited September 1, 2015 by gatorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 A leader who has as his/her core belief the inalienable rights of the INDIVIDUAL .............................not group rights. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Ronald Reagan? You Conservatives would hate Reagan now. This thread was your opportunity for comedic gold and this? Ronnie Raygun? No? What We Want In A Conservative President. There's a difference in what we want and what we get: 1. Racist 2. Women hating 3. Uncompassionate 4. Xenophobe 5. War-mongering 6. Money Grubbing 7. Anti-environment 8. Whiny, self-entitled 9. Gay bashing homophobe Gee... 10 is hard to get to... Wait: 10: Anti-union A leader who has as his/her core belief the inalienable rights of the INDIVIDUAL .............................not group rights. . Yep... There is a lot of individualistic thinking in this: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Yep... There is a lot of individualistic thinking in this: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Exiled never disappoints. Just when you think that you have read his most illogical (re: stupid) he can always come down with something worse. Did you ever take a Logic 101 class ?................................or an English class? Do I really have to explain how your "example" doesn't apply to the concept of the rights of the individual ? For your sake I hope not. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Glad I can oblige. :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) A leader who has as his/her core belief the inalienable rights of the INDIVIDUAL .............................not group rights. . This is what I think is much of the angst in our union right now...the loss of the concept of being a citizen. Seems nobody wants to pay taxes, no one wants to give an inch on gun rights, no one wants to follow Scotus decisions (at least in Kentucky because it is against their personal beliefs, people don't want to let others get married - even if it has no effect on them - they don't want to sell them flowers. People are for war as long as they don't have to send their kids or even pay for it, people don't want to move forward... The concept of I am not going to give an inch for this country to get better...I just want mine - and don't come looking for anything...and while your at it - get off my lawn - and THIS is what makes this country great has won out....what a wonderful world.... Bravo! Edited September 1, 2015 by baskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) This is what I think is much of the angst in our union right now...the loss of the concept of being a citizen. Seems nobody wants to pay taxes, no one wants to give an inch on gun rights, no one wants to follow Scotus decisions (at least in Kentucky because it is against their personal beliefs, people don't want to let others get married - even if it has no effect on them - they don't want to sell them flowers. People are for war as long as they don't have to send their kids or even pay for it, people don't want to move forward... The concept of I am not going to give an inch for this country to get better...I just want mine - and don't come looking for anything...and while your at it - get off my lawn - and THIS is what makes this country great has won out....what a wonderful world.... Bravo! This! Yep... Too MUCH individualistic thinking. Individualism is breaking down the structure of society. Edited September 1, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 This is what I think is much of the angst in our union right now...the loss of the concept of being a citizen. I disagree. The angst is being caused by the fact that the concept of citizenship, as espoused by one side of the political spectrum, means the complete subversion of the individual to the collective, which goes against all of our uniquely American traditions. Seems nobody wants to pay taxes No one has made this argument. The argument is, that if anyone has to pay taxes, everyone should have to pay taxes, and that those taxes should all be at the same rate so that everyone has the same stake in the size and scope of government. The argument extends to the fact that money always goes where it is best treated, and our corporate tax rate is uncompetitive globally. no one wants to give an inch on gun rights Why should anyone? No good argument in favor of forcing an individual to give up his primary right to self defense has been made to date. These last few tragedies have been perpetrated by individuals using hand guns without extended clips, where the guns in question have been acquired perfectly legally and in a way no reasonable person would want amended. The violent crime rate in the UK, where guns are all but completely banned, is significantly higher than that of the US. People are not inherently good, and as such, it's important we be able to defend ourselves from bad actors. no one wants to follow Scotus decisions (at least in Kentucky because it is against their personal beliefs, people don't want to let others get married - even if it has no effect on them - they don't want to sell them flowers. Laws that force religious people into secularism are an affront to freedom. Laws that deny an individual the right to freely associate are an affront to liberty. People are for war as long as they don't have to send their kids or even pay for it, We have an all volunteer military, which we have reduced in size against the will of those serving. The overwhelming majority of the country supports funding our military. people don't want to move forward... People see that we're moving, but have identified the fact that not all movement is progress. The concept of I am not going to give an inch for this country to get better...I just want mine - and don't come looking for anything...and while your at it - get off my lawn - and THIS is what makes this country great has won out....what a wonderful world.... Bravo! No, what you're missing is that American's want to be generous, but they don't want to do it at the point of a gun. They don't want to be told to "shut up about their invisible sky daddy". They don't want to be told that they're racist because they object to policy. They don't want confiscatory tax rates which go to fund those who have no stake in the size and scope of government. They want those people who do rely on temporary assistance to feel public shame for not being able to take care of themselves. They don't want to be bullied by leftists who are telling them they are bad because they aren't leftists. And as long as the leftists continue to do this? They can get off my lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 What I'd want in a conservative president? 1. a fiery temper 2. weak blood vessels 3. a liberal VP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 This! Yep... Too MUCH individualistic thinking. Individualism is breaking down the structure of society. I just gave you some of examples right off today's headlines that show the give and take between individual rights and citizenry. Guns, gay marriage, taxes, foriegn policy....and in typical right wing/TP fashion you have responded with a vague - one line - idealism. Whittle it down to gun rights. The USA has the most liberal, most individualistic rights, for any comparable country. These individual freedoms also come with the highest gun violence rates - by a factor of around 10 compared to our equals. I used to own guns but don't now - but when I did - if there were registration laws, licenses etc that would be required that would have helped slow gun violence - I would have been ok with that - as i think gun violence is so draining on our country, Every gun incident - probably costs the taxpayers millions in police, judicial and incarceration costs - let alone the societal damage. But the attitude of the more ardent gun owners - is individual rights trump all else - at all costs. Individualism is not free - I ust gave you an example.Seems to me the "individuals" are unwilling to make even reasonable investments to being a citizen. I disagree. The angst is being caused by the fact that the concept of citizenship, as espoused by one side of the political spectrum, means the complete subversion of the individual to the collective, which goes against all of our uniquely American traditions. HUH? Give an example No one has made this argument. The argument is, that if anyone has to pay taxes, everyone should have to pay taxes, and that those taxes should all be at the same rate so that everyone has the same stake in the size and scope of government. The argument extends to the fact that money always goes where it is best treated, and our corporate tax rate is uncompetitive globally. Why should anyone? No good argument in favor of forcing an individual to give up his primary right to self defense has been made to date. These last few tragedies have been perpetrated by individuals using hand guns without extended clips, where the guns in question have been acquired perfectly legally and in a way no reasonable person would want amended. The violent crime rate in the UK, where guns are all but completely banned, is significantly higher than that of the US. People are not inherently good, and as such, it's important we be able to defend ourselves from bad actors. You are wrong about the UK by a factor of 40 - close though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Laws that force religious people into secularism are an affront to freedom. Laws that deny an individual the right to freely associate are an affront to liberty. Where is ANYONE forcing religious people into secularism - example? We have an all volunteer military, which we have reduced in size against the will of those serving. The overwhelming majority of the country supports funding our military. Guarantee you our attitudes on war would be much different if everyone's kids went and we actually paid for them People see that we're moving, but have identified the fact that not all movement is progress. No, what you're missing is that American's want to be generous, but they don't want to do it at the point of a gun. They don't want to be told to "shut up about their invisible sky daddy". They don't want to be told that they're racist because they object to policy. They don't want confiscatory tax rates which go to fund those who have no stake in the size and scope of government. They want those people who do rely on temporary assistance to feel public shame for not being able to take care of themselves. Federal Tax rates are the lowest they have ever been.... They don't want to be bullied by leftists who are telling them they are bad because they aren't leftists. Example? And as long as the leftists continue to do this? They can get off my lawn. Again - typical right wing one liners full of ideals - no examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I just gave you some of examples right off today's headlines that show the give and take between individual rights and citizenry. Guns, gay marriage, taxes, foriegn policy....and in typical right wing/TP fashion you have responded with a vague - one line - idealism. Whittle it down to gun rights. The USA has the most liberal, most individualistic rights, for any comparable country. These individual freedoms also come with the highest gun violence rates - by a factor of around 10 compared to our equals. I used to own guns but don't now - but when I did - if there were registration laws, licenses etc that would be required that would have helped slow gun violence - I would have been ok with that - as i think gun violence is so draining on our country, Every gun incident - probably costs the taxpayers millions in police, judicial and incarceration costs - let alone the societal damage. But the attitude of the more ardent gun owners - is individual rights trump all else - at all costs. Individualism is not free - I ust gave you an example.Seems to me the "individuals" are unwilling to make even reasonable investments to being a citizen. Again - typical right wing one liners full of ideals - no examples Fair enough, criticism accepted. I don't agree with the more restrictive laws helping things. The cat is out of the bag, there is no going back. There's just too much of a supply of weapons out there. People will find a way to obtain guns no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Baskin: Please be courteous enough to edit you responses, as I have in my posts, to make them easy to respond to, instead of having to cut/paste everything out, and pre-edit your formatting in order to respond to you. If you'll do that, I'll be more than happy to engage you. Edited September 1, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Baskin: Please be courteous enough to edit you responses, as I have in my posts, to make them easy to respond to, instead of having to cut/paste everything out, and pre-edit your formatting in order to respond to you. If you'll do that, I'll be more than happy to engage you. LoL... Hey baskin: Make it easy for the lazy mouthbreathers... They have a hard time "engaging." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 LoL... Hey baskin: Make it easy for the lazy mouthbreathers... They have a hard time "engaging." Typical government employee: does ****ty, lazy work, and then blames everyone else for the problem he created. Yes, I'm lazy because I want someone to clean up the mess they created rather than cleaning it up for them. Moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Typical government employee: does ****ty, lazy work, and then blames everyone else for the problem he created. Yes, I'm lazy because I want someone to clean up the mess they created rather than cleaning it up for them. Moron. says the loser of losers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I just gave you some of examples right off today's headlines that show the give and take between individual rights and citizenry. Guns, gay marriage, taxes, foriegn policy....and in typical right wing/TP fashion you have responded with a vague - one line - idealism. Whittle it down to gun rights. The USA has the most liberal, most individualistic rights, for any comparable country. These individual freedoms also come with the highest gun violence rates - by a factor of around 10 compared to our equals. I used to own guns but don't now - but when I did - if there were registration laws, licenses etc that would be required that would have helped slow gun violence - I would have been ok with that - as i think gun violence is so draining on our country, Every gun incident - probably costs the taxpayers millions in police, judicial and incarceration costs - let alone the societal damage. But the attitude of the more ardent gun owners - is individual rights trump all else - at all costs. Individualism is not free - I ust gave you an example.Seems to me the "individuals" are unwilling to make even reasonable investments to being a citizen. Again - typical right wing one liners full of ideals - no examples Do you support mandatory military service? Also, since when does the violent crime rate equal the firearm-related death rate? You're only off by three words there. Close though. Edited September 1, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Just when you applaud ...lybob for the worst thinking in the thread .......... You get Baskin and "Individual rights equates with I just want mine" Hilariously illogical TYTT, I admire your patience . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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