SI says Bills are a team in "panic mode" w/ QB roster hole

[YoloinOhio]

 

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

 

2014 records

 

Bortles 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Bridgewater 6 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Carr 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Manziel 0 wins - benched for poor performance

Mettenberger 0 wins - started because QBs above him got hurt

 

Manuel - 2 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

Geno - 3 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

 

You were saying? Should we run a similar comparison to the 2011 and 2012 draft classes?

Bortles and Carr were brutal but of course they are getting a second year.... what do you expect?

[GG]

So you're saying that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud? That has to be the weakest line of reasoning I've ever read on TBD. You cite Geno and EJ as comparison but to me they are all part of the same black hole of QB talent. We are in a massive QB talent drought right now.

 

Good job with the trolling clinic. Please point out where I said "that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud"

if you were comparing apples to apples, wouldn't you use Geno and EJ's rookie win totals and team standing?

 

Promo insisted on using the 2014 wins as the argument, so I obliged.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

if you were comparing apples to apples, wouldn't you use Geno and EJ's rookie win totals and team standing?

 

I don't understand why we're looking at win totals at all in a team game like football. I thought YPA, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, turnovers/game played and such like metrics were considered the better way to evaluate QB, but WTF do I know?

 

I do think it's fair to point out that EJ had 4 wins as a rookie and was considered (by most) to be the #1 QB heading into his 2nd year, which would put him right up there with rookie performance of Bridgewater Bortles and Carr but I"m not sure what that really tells anyone. Bridgewater looked pretty good, promising as a rookie. Carr and Bortles looked pretty awful. Geno has shown more flashes than EJ to date, but he's also played almost twice as many games, and any time a QB has thrown more INTs than TDs (or even an equal number) it's not looking good for his team's prospects with him as a long term starter.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

I don't understand why we're looking at win totals at all in a team game like football. I thought YPA, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, turnovers/game played and such like metrics were considered the better way to evaluate QB, but WTF do I know?

 

I do think it's fair to point out that EJ had 4 wins as a rookie and was considered (by most) to be the #1 QB heading into his 2nd year, which would put him right up there with rookie performance of Bridgewater Bortles and Carr but I"m not sure what that really tells anyone. Bridgewater looked pretty good, promising as a rookie. Carr and Bortles looked pretty awful. Geno has shown more flashes than EJ to date, but he's also played almost twice as many games, and any time a QB has thrown more INTs than TDs (or even an equal number) it's not looking good for his team's prospects with him as a long term starter.

Yeah, my question was more about when to take stats from, rather than the metrics themselves. Though there really aren't many metrics I like overall for comparing QB's because of the whole team factor.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

I don't understand why we're looking at win totals at all in a team game like football. I thought YPA, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, turnovers/game played and such like metrics were considered the better way to evaluate QB, but WTF do I know?

 

I do think it's fair to point out that EJ had 4 wins as a rookie and was considered (by most) to be the #1 QB heading into his 2nd year, which would put him right up there with rookie performance of Bridgewater Bortles and Carr but I"m not sure what that really tells anyone. Bridgewater looked pretty good, promising as a rookie. Carr and Bortles looked pretty awful. Geno has shown more flashes than EJ to date, but he's also played almost twice as many games, and any time a QB has thrown more INTs than TDs (or even an equal number) it's not looking good for his team's prospects with him as a long term starter.

I agree but the QB yardstick of choice here at TBD is wins and losses. "You are what your record says you are" is a common mantra. Although it gets turned and twisted to suit whoever is making the argument.

 

Good job with the trolling clinic. Please point out where I said "that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud"

You keep bringing up "trolling" when all I'm doing is debating your points. Is responding to you trolling? I disagree with your assessment of the quality of the 2014 QB class. You say it's full of budding superstars and I say it's crap, like every year since Luck was drafted. Agree to disagree.

Edited May 19, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[GG]

I agree but the QB yardstick of choice here at TBD is wins and losses. "You are what your record says you are" is a common mantra. Although it gets turned and twisted to suit whoever is making the argument.

You keep bringing up "trolling" when all I'm doing is debating your points. Is responding to you trolling? I disagree with your assessment of the quality of the 2014 QB class. You say it's full of budding superstars and I say it's crap, like every year since Luck was drafted. Agree to disagree.

 

You aren't debating anything but keep twisting around arguments in your crusade against fans who are critical of the team's moves. How has that worked out for you until this year?

 

So, if you're willing to engage in an honest debate - please tell me how the 2013 QB class was better quality than the 2011, 2012 and 2014 classes?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Yeah, my question was more about when to take stats from, rather than the metrics themselves. Though there really aren't many metrics I like overall for comparing QB's because of the whole team factor.

 

True, dat. Team factor matters. Coaching/offensive scheme matter. I do think there are some metrics that have value. Completion percentage - it's not the end-all because a good, gamer QB will throw it away and hurt his completion percentage rather than take a sack or risk a turnover. But overall, yeah, it's a metric that shows you if a QB can find his open man and hit him, and QB have had very good completion percentage with very meh receiving corp. You need a guy hitting in at least the 60% range in the modern game. Turnovers per game is critical to me - if your QB is fumbling or throwing INTs even a world-class D gets snow-jobbed. Likewise TD/INT - it's very flashy if a guy is throwing a lot of TD, but if he's throwing as many INTs he's hurting the team as much as helping. Some people here are very up on YPA or A/YA as indicating that a QB is throwing downfield rather than taking the checkdown to the RB - me, not so much, Brady is going to the HOF on dink-n-dunk and YAC, but it does have some merit, QB who throw downfield and/or who hit a receiver in stride and allow him to pick up YAC tend to have higher YPA. So those are 3-4 metrics I think are useful.

[San-O]

 

You aren't debating anything but keep twisting around arguments in your crusade against fans who are critical of the team's moves. How has that worked out for you until this year?

 

So, if you're willing to engage in an honest debate - please tell me how the 2013 QB class was better quality than the 2011, 2012 and 2014 classes?

 

 

It's pointless IMO. Promo is an unabashed Bills homer and apologist of the 1st order, that I have seen.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

You aren't debating anything but keep twisting around arguments in your crusade against fans who are critical of the team's moves. How has that worked out for you until this year?

 

So, if you're willing to engage in an honest debate - please tell me how the 2013 QB class was better quality than the 2011, 2012 and 2014 classes?

My argument is all the QB classes have been bad since Luck. All of them.

[GG]

My argument is all the QB classes have been bad since Luck. All of them.

 

All 3 of the classes, compared to the highest rated QB coming out of college in decades? Nice sample size and no room for evaluating the relative quality of each of the three classes in question and where that leaves the Bills when they chose to target a QB in the worst of those three bad QB years?