patfitz Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Whaley has done NOTHING at all in his tenure here. He has not drafted smartly and hired inferior coaches and has been non almost non existent. Bring in Polian and see what a real pro is about. Edited November 16, 2014 by patfitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Only bring in polian if he doesn't bring in his son. his son screws up. I wouldn't say whaley has done "nothing" I have liked some things he has done. too early to tell. The biggest problem with this team has been the QB postion, and that blame lands on everyone in the front office from nix to whaley and everyone else. They should be drafting a QB every year, even if it is in the 4th round. They should be doing that until we actually have a QB. We almost never draft a QB. Before EJ the last two QBs we drafted were Trent and Brown. If you are looking for a frachise qb, and those are your draft choice, you aren't investing enough into the QB position. Bills need to invest more of the draft into the QB postion. They need to find an answer at QB We also need to improve the two guard postions, but that shouldn't be as hard as getting a franchise QB And Marrone needs to replace Hackett. He wont do it, but he should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Whaley spend 2 first rounders on a wide receiver on a draft full of wr. He busted the 2nd on cujo. He signed an inferior player in chris williams. He allowed nate Hackett to continue to coach on the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Whaley spend 2 first rounders on a wide receiver on a draft full of wr. He busted the 2nd on cujo. He signed an inferior player in chris williams. He allowed nate Hackett to continue to coach on the staff. None of the WR's in the 2014 draft hold a candle to Sammy. Their numbers all look similar due to a multitude of reasons. Sammy is playing injured, ODB has a franchise QB and gets a ton of targets due to Cruz's injury, Kelvin Benjamin is the only NFL WR on Carolina, and gains most of his numbers in garbage time (he has two TD's thrown by Derek Anderson), and Mike Evans also has a sizable chunk of his numbers in garbage time. None of them are close. You can argue with the philosophy, which is a fair argument, would we have been better with a 2015 first and ODB? It's possible, but Sammy was almost a sure-thing superstar. And now that the 2015 first looks to be in the middle of the draft, it doesn't seem so bad. No prospect as good as Sammy will be available with the Bills pick at 13 or 16 or what have you. As to Kujo, he was a risk/reward pick. And while all signs point towards bust at this point, it is still very early for him. Personally, I think Whaley has done fine and would not mind him hanging around a year or two more as long as he continues to make decent moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The talent is there. Fire Marone and extend Whalley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Whaley has done NOTHING at all in his tenure here. He has not drafted smartly and hired inferior coaches and has been non almost non existent. Bring in Polian and see what a real pro is about. What inferior coaches has Whaley hired? The only coach they have hired with Whaley as actual GM is Schwartz and I think that's worked out pretty well. It's easy to look at the negatives and ignore the positives like signing Spikes, Graham, and trading for Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) None of the WR's in the 2014 draft hold a candle to Sammy. Their numbers all look similar due to a multitude of reasons. Sammy is playing injured, ODB has a franchise QB and gets a ton of targets due to Cruz's injury, Kelvin Benjamin is the only NFL WR on Carolina, and gains most of his numbers in garbage time (he has two TD's thrown by Derek Anderson), and Mike Evans also has a sizable chunk of his numbers in garbage time. None of them are close. You can argue with the philosophy, which is a fair argument, would we have been better with a 2015 first and ODB? It's possible, but Sammy was almost a sure-thing superstar. And now that the 2015 first looks to be in the middle of the draft, it doesn't seem so bad. No prospect as good as Sammy will be available with the Bills pick at 13 or 16 or what have you. As to Kujo, he was a risk/reward pick. And while all signs point towards bust at this point, it is still very early for him. Personally, I think Whaley has done fine and would not mind him hanging around a year or two more as long as he continues to make decent moves. since when is future dominance in a position a slam dunk? you don't know this for sure and neither do the bills. but you and the bills keep telling yourselves this enough times and it must be true. no, we'll have to wait and see if it is. so far, it isn't. i get why the bills are into magical thinking here but why are you? as to the idea that we don't have a qb and therefore watkins is being unfairly judged, this is not an excuse but a further indictment of whaley. you don't sell the farm for a prize filly when you don't have a prize stud to back up. Edited November 16, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteboots Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 This past draft is not a total bust in my eyes. I think we all see Watkins amazing talent. Unfortunately QB play and injury has held him back slightly. Seantrel is in the 7th was a risk but it's worked out so far. Preston Brown has been very solid for us and sets us up nicely next year with Kiko returning. Not to mention the draft pick trade for Bryce Brown which in hindsight we needed. The trade for Hughes and signing of Scwartz and Orton were are all good moves. I definately believe he's done way more good than harm. And if you want to believe he was responsible for the previous year draft, don't forget we took Manuel in a draft that was weak in terms of QBs but if he didn't take a QB he would've caught a lot of flac and you can't hang him up for Manuel without praising for Kiko. Whaley is not the problem. He is very well respected throughout the league and hanging up to dry will hurt us in trying to attract other team executives in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Whaley has done NOTHING at all in his tenure here. He has not drafted smartly and hired inferior coaches and has been non almost non existent. Bring in Polian and see what a real pro is about. WOW Hey Rip when did you wake up ? The coaching hire was a homer hire by Brandon & Buddy while Whaley had some input i'm sure i don't think in any way it was all him ! He's smarter than that i think he is playing with some of the hand he was dealt . I think this off season we will see some Whaley moves more along the line of his draft moves ... Whaley is a football guy no doubt about it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Dude stop trolling. You're getting ridiculous starting the same thread with the same topic over and over. Polian is a dinosaur in NFL age, he's not your answer. The game is going to younger guys as GMs and coaches. Polian might be good as an advisor, but no way I make him the GM. Whaley was and still is spoken in high regard in the league, and there is no reason to get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Dude stop trolling. You're getting ridiculous starting the same thread with the same topic over and over. Polian is a dinosaur in NFL age, he's not your answer. The game is going to younger guys as GMs and coaches. Polian might be good as an advisor, but no way I make him the GM. Whaley was and still is spoken in high regard in the league, and there is no reason to get rid of him. Whaley good or bad will probably make the cut after this season. But, out of interest this "was and still is spoken in high regard in the league" where does this come from? the bobbleheads on ESPN? I would genuinely like a link from some team executives actually saying this. because I am aware of no one. Does he forward funny jokes about sex? yea, maybe thats where the respect comes from. he failed two years in a row to find even a serviceable LG. His starting QB was pulled off a couch a week bedore the opener. His #16 QB pick was reach of epic proportions, his trade for Watkins which may and probably will pay dividends down the road.But, was a move that a GM with little experience would make. Thinking Watkins would put the team over the hump with clowns masquerading as QB was a mistake. This team is far and away from a single player making that type of difference. So yea, what currently employed GM in the NFL is talking about how good Whaley is? I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) since when is future dominance in a position a slam dunk? you don't know this for sure and neither do the bills. but you and the bills keep telling yourselves this enough times and it must be true. no, we'll have to wait and see if it is. so far, it isn't. i get why the bills are into magical thinking here but why are you? as to the idea that we don't have a qb and therefore watkins is being unfairly judged, this is not an excuse but a further indictment of whaley. you don't sell the farm for a prize filly when you don't have a prize stud to back up. What do you mean "you don't know this for sure?" Are you insinuating that "we don't know" if Sammy will be great? Let me put it in terms you might understand. Watkins was the Andrew Luck of WR prospects. There's always a chance they'll stink, but it doesn't look like it, and they were as close to a sure-thing as you can find. What QB would have taken last year with our pick? Did you want a QB in the draft? What good QB prospect will be available with the Bills first rounder next year? Are you somehow saying you should never trade up in the draft without a sure fire franchise QB? Even if the value makes sense? Edited November 16, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 This needed its own thread? Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Trading away stevie johnson for bryce brown(a player whose production could be match by an undrafted rookie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Whaley has done NOTHING at all in his tenure here. He has not drafted smartly and hired inferior coaches and has been non almost non existent. Bring in Polian and see what a real pro is about. While he should be accountable for everything that has transpired under his watch since Buddy Nix retired. There are some things we need to take into account, Buddy Nix is still on retainer as a consultant for some reason unknown to me. Then we need to take to account that Russ Brandon is still meddling into football operations considering he told Sammy Watkins the Bills would trade to draft him. The Watkins trade may or may not have entirely been on Whaley is what I'm saying. Plus, we also need to take into account Russ Brandon's idea on "moneyball" with his lame analytic dept that is probably responsible for the inferior quality at the OG position for the last two years. Considering what Whaley has done in brilliantly acquiring Kyle Orton, and all the defensive players. (Hughes, Spikes etc) He may or might not have been hindered in building a proper O line simply because he appears to be following that old goober Buddy Nix's philosophy with the line. Plus, he is in only his second year on the job and deserves more time IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If They keep Whaley, they better be hiring a very strong personality with a vision for building the team because Whaley has not shown any clear vision for building this team. He has found talent for sure but it is evident there is no clear direction here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) In my opinion, the most important part of the job in being a general manager for an NFL team is being able to identify the best talent. I think Whaley is exceptionally good at that. He is very, very good at finding and bringing in good free agents and his draft choices have been the best the Bills have seen since John Butler. Firing him would be a colossal mistake. Pegula will have a very hard time finding someone better at their job than Whaley. The one thing I am most confident in with the entire Bills organization, is that if Whaley remains in his position for the next few years, I truly believe Whaley will build the best football team Buffalo has seen since the early 1990's. I believe he is that good. No GM is going to get every player move perfect. And this GM is getting most of his moves right. Some moves have been spectacular. This team will be a playoff contender with a better offensive coach and possibly a new head coach. If They keep Whaley, they better be hiring a very strong personality with a vision for building the team because Whaley has not shown any clear vision for building this team. He has found talent for sure but it is evident there is no clear direction here. What are you talking about? What direction? What direction is a GM supposed to go in? He has found talent. That is his primary job. Edited November 16, 2014 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 None of the WR's in the 2014 draft hold a candle to Sammy. Their numbers all look similar due to a multitude of reasons. Sammy is playing injured, ODB has a franchise QB and gets a ton of targets due to Cruz's injury, Kelvin Benjamin is the only NFL WR on Carolina, and gains most of his numbers in garbage time (he has two TD's thrown by Derek Anderson), and Mike Evans also has a sizable chunk of his numbers in garbage time. None of them are close. You can argue with the philosophy, which is a fair argument, would we have been better with a 2015 first and ODB? It's possible, but Sammy was almost a sure-thing superstar. I head Whaley say after the draft that they had Sammy and Evans ranked very close to evenly. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 this thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) What do you mean "you don't know this for sure?" Are you insinuating that "we don't know" if Sammy will be great? Let me put it in terms you might understand. Watkins was the Andrew Luck of WR prospects. There's always a chance they'll stink, but it doesn't look like it, and they were as close to a sure-thing as you can find. What QB would have taken last year with our pick? Did you want a QB in the draft? What good QB prospect will be available with the Bills first rounder next year? Are you somehow saying you should never trade up in the draft without a sure fire franchise QB? Even if the value makes sense? do you think there is zero chance that any of the other wr's available in the draft last year will have better numbers than watkins over the course of their rookie contracts. that's a bet i'd be willing to make against you. i'll bet you could find many others that would take it. do you think that vegas would give you better than 1:1 odds against the field? but that's exactly the bet that whaley made. and he didn't bet a couple bucks, he bet the frickin farm! i can't imagine an analytics algorithm that would have supported it. Edited November 16, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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