birdog1960 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Again, we're talking about punishment. Not sure what you don't get about that. Your analogy is nonsensical. Preventing a drunk pilot from flying and thus putting passengers in harm's way is not categorically similar to preventing a football player from playing because he did something bad. you made an untrue assertion as to why businesses might fire someone for objectionable behavior. i gave an example to illustrate your error. you then further stated that businesses didn't make decisions on moral grounds...and my example dispels that belief as well. stay on point, won't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) you made an untrue assertion as to why businesses might fire someone for objectionable behavior. i gave an example to illustrate your error. you then further stated that businesses didn't make decisions on moral grounds...and my example dispels that belief as well. stay on point, won't you? Your analogy is faulty. The airline actively prevents harm. The Vikings would not be. Those are two different moral issues. And I know you're talking about business "making decisions based purely on morality." But the airline example may feel personally responsible. The Vikings would not. Edited September 16, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Your analogy is faulty. The airline actively prevents harm. The Vikings would not be. Those are two different moral issues. And I know you're talking about business "making decisions based purely on morality." But the airline example may feel personally responsible. The Vikings would not. really? by turning a blind eye to child abuse they would likely send a message to many idiots out there that it's ok and without consequences. that's doing harm. oh, and i said nothing about decisions purely on morality. rob said the converse in the absolute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 blacks could sit at the same lunch counter with whites when some of us were growing up- most people figured out that's wrong I know it's a typo, but it's a hilarious typo. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) really? by turning a blind eye to child abuse they would likely send a message to many idiots out there that it's ok and without consequences. that's doing harm. oh, and i said nothing about decisions purely on morality. rob said the converse in the absolute. People have always turned to the Minnesota Vikings for guidance on whether or not to beat their kids. Parents are just lost without the Vikes. Remember when Randy Moss ran over that road worker with his car because she wouldn't flag him on and then similar cases increased dramatically? Or when AP got busted for driving 105 mph and was slapped on the wrist? Everyone was driving as fast as their GEO Metros could take them (61 mph). How many sex boats have we seen since those players involved walked away unpunished? Domes are collapsing at record a pace because they're just not sure whether they should remain inflated anymore. Minnesota leads the nation whether we like it or not. Edited September 16, 2014 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) really? by turning a blind eye to child abuse they would likely send a message to many idiots out there that it's ok and without consequences. that's doing harm. oh, and i said nothing about decisions purely on morality. rob said the converse in the absolute. And you're trying to prove him wrong, so you're talking about decisions purely on morality. And I disagree that they're sending a message to anyone that it's okay. AP is under court proceedings, that sends a message that it's illegal. What more do you want? Do you really think that if AP was cut, more people would stop hitting their kids? Do you think wife-beaters around the country went home and apologized and hugged their wives after the Ray Rice fiasco? This "sending a message" crap is exactly that, crap. The people who do it are gonna keep doing it until they're arrested. It's naive to think otherwise. Edited September 16, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) People have always turned to the Minnesota Vikings for guidance on whether or not to beat their kids. Parents are just lost without the Vikes. people frequently gauge tolerances. what can be gotten away with is a ever growing part of many people's mental calculations. And you're trying to prove him wrong, so you're talking about decisions purely on morality. And I disagree that they're sending a message to anyone that it's okay. AP is under court proceedings, that sends a message that it's illegal. What more do you want? Do you really think that if AP was cut, more people would stop hitting their kids? Do you think wife-beaters around the country went home and apologized and hugged their wives after the Ray Rice fiasco? what percentage of nfl fans will follopw the court proceedings versus those that will know what the vikings do? Edited September 16, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 you made an untrue assertion as to why businesses might fire someone for objectionable behavior. i gave an example to illustrate your error. you then further stated that businesses didn't make decisions on moral grounds...and my example dispels that belief as well. stay on point, won't you? You're trying way too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 people frequently guage tolerances. what can be gotten away with is a ever growing part of many people's mental calculations. what percentage of nfl fans will follopw the court proceedings versus those that will know what the vikings do? You're telling me that average Joe takes his queues from whether or not Goodell or Ziggy would deem the action in question a suspend-able offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 People have always turned to the Minnesota Vikings for guidance on whether or not to beat their kids. Parents are just lost without the Vikes. Remember when Randy Moss ran over that road worker with his car because she wouldn't flag him on and then similar cases increased dramatically? Or when AP got busted for driving 105 mph and was slapped on the wrist? Everyone was driving as fast as their GEO Metros could take them (61 mph). How many sex boats have we seen since those players involved walked away unpunished? Domes are collapsing at record a pace because they're just not sure whether they should remain inflated anymore. Minnesota leads the nation whether we like it or not. I think he just means that they--as an NFL team--have the ability to send a message to NFL players that beating a child bloody won't be accepted (at least not by their organization). Personally, I do think it would be effective if an NFL team took that kind of stand--at least in telling their athletes that they won't abide violence against children. Of course, in this situation, it probably wouldn't have the desired effect given that they'd only be bowing to public pressure now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 people frequently gauge tolerances. what can be gotten away with is a ever growing part of many people's mental calculations. what percentage of nfl fans will follopw the court proceedings versus those that will know what the vikings do? Who cares? What the Vikings do will have no effect on NFL fans other than satiating their desire for a pound of flesh. What percentage of wife-beaters have stopped since the Ray Rice fiasco? How effective was their "message?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 really? by turning a blind eye to child abuse they would likely send a message to many idiots out there that it's ok and without consequences. that's doing harm. oh, and i said nothing about decisions purely on morality. rob said the converse in the absolute. So the average child/wife abuser is going to base his conduct on the penalties handed down to athletes by the league? That's your theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 You're telling me that average Joe takes his queues from whether or not Goodell or Ziggy would deem the action in question a suspend-able offense? if an "untouchable" is going to lose his job over it, what conclusion should the rest of us reach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I think he just means that they--as an NFL team--have the ability to send a message to NFL players that beating a child bloody won't be accepted (at least not by their organization). Personally, I do think it would be effective if an NFL team took that kind of stand--at least in telling their athletes that they won't abide violence against children. Of course, in this situation, it probably wouldn't have the desired effect given that they'd only be bowing to public pressure now. if an "untouchable" is going to lose his job over it, what conclusion should the rest of us reach? Then again, perhaps I was mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 if an "untouchable" is going to lose his job over it, what conclusion should the rest of us reach? So the average child/wife abuser is going to base his conduct on the penalties handed down to athletes by the league? That's your theory? Yes. that's his theory. Just the right mixture of idealism and a lack of realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I think he just means that they--as an NFL team--have the ability to send a message to NFL players that beating a child bloody won't be accepted (at least not by their organization). Personally, I do think it would be effective if an NFL team took that kind of stand--at least in telling their athletes that they won't abide violence against children. Of course, in this situation, it probably wouldn't have the desired effect given that they'd only be bowing to public pressure now. Flip side is abuse victims and parents of abuse victims may be far more hesitant to get help for fear of losing their meal ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Then again, perhaps I was mistaken. morality tales have existed for years with decent results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 if an "untouchable" is going to lose his job over it, what conclusion should the rest of us reach? Have you stopped beating your kids because of the AP case? Or did you reach your own conclusion without the moral guidance of the Vikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Flip side is abuse victims and parents of abuse victims may be far more hesitant to get help for fear of losing their meal ticket. actually, i believe the number of spousal and child abuse reported cases spiked after these episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) actually, i believe the number of spousal and child abuse reported cases spiked after these episodes. Which ones spiked? Can you also answer me about if you just stopped hitting your kids this week? Edited September 16, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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