Bundy Ranch

[B-Man]

Gregg:

 

In my defense of Bundy, I could give a rat's wet ass about his position on "negros", gays, or the color blue.

 

None of those things change the actions of the government, which I find to be far more offensive than any backward notions held by some dumbass hillbilly rancher.

 

In other words, I don't support Bundy because he his Bundy. I support him because I oppose the actions of the government in this case, and because Bundy's lesser evils to not in any way mitigate the big picture.

 

 

 

George Zimmerman, Cliven Bundy, and the Importance of Separating Principles from People

By David French

 

Deroy Murdock, Rich Lowry, and others on NRO have condemned Cliven Bundy’s disgusting comments about race and slavery appropriately, eloquently, and forcefully. In addition to condemning Bundy’s comments, we need to remind ourselves of a commonsense notion: We must always take care — especially in hot-button public disputes — to separate person from principle.

 

As we’ve learned once again, there are, quite frequently, people who believe and say reprehensible things — or even take foolish actions — who nevertheless find themselves facing an unjust or excessive government response. Often we find out about the person’s challenges with the government well before we find out anything about that person’s beliefs or character, and in the resulting rush to stand on principle we can inadvertently, prematurely, and often wrongly elevate the person.

 

more at the link

 

 

CNN interview..........

 

[Tiberius]

I'll bet Clive Bundy is a birther

[boyst]

This is perfectly sound logically. When you cannot defeat a man with argument and expose a flaw in his belief system and defiance you brand him a racist.

[meazza]

This is perfectly sound logically. When you cannot defeat a man with argument and expose a flaw in his belief system and defiance you brand him a racist.

 

He is a racist...

[Koko78]

This is perfectly sound logically. When you cannot defeat a man with argument and expose a flaw in his belief system and defiance you brand him a racist.

 

Now you know the entire liberal playbook.

[boyst]

He is a racist...

Meaz, feel special because normally I don't give real responses in this basement hole...

 

I do not think he is a racist. I do not think he holds people on separate standards based on race alone. I think he is like many older men and women in this society that grew up in small towns, ignorant communities and raised a little backwards to what culture has deemed cultural.

 

He comes across as many of the 45-50+ year old men I meet in my field. They're not racists, they're not mean spirited or evil, even. They're just set in their ways. They have been in the same position of life for a long time, in the field too long, if you will. They don't need to understand why people wear a hat backward, or why they listen to music loud, or why tight jeans are fashionable, and they most certainly do not understand why some ethnicities act a certain way. They don't understand it because they just don't care to and they don't see the reasoning. Whats the point of wearing a hat backward?

 

See, I am getting off the subject and I am doing so on purpose. The color of a guys skin matters as much as the backward hat he is wearing to guys like this.

 

Do not confuse his issues and statements about welfare to be about race. The easiest way to explain this guys view on welfare? Everything he has earned has come with struggle, blood, sweat and tears. The fact that he is an !@#$ who mooched illegally off the government not withstanding in this argument (yet). He worked hard for what little is his and has seen it taken from him and just had enough. That is at least his viewpoint and we cannot argue against that; we can only argue its validity.

 

Bundy just doesn't care or get it when it comes to who tells him what he can and can't do because he is an !@#$.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

So you don't want the government to be able to execute the rule of law?

Hardly. What I oppose, quite strenuously, is the government enforcing unjust laws.

[RI Bills Fan]

Hardly. What I oppose, quite strenuously, is the government enforcing unjust laws.

 

So do you also oppose the government enforcing laws which other people consider to be unjust or is it only the laws that you consider to be unjust?

[boyst]

So do you also oppose the government enforcing laws which other people consider to be unjust or is it only the laws that you consider to be unjust?

Who are other people? How many other people? Are those other people representative of me? I mean ME, too. I don't need other people to be a 20 year old couple in Vermont, or a 60+ year old woman in Nevada, or a 4-something year old man in Wisconsin.

 

I want similar people to myself, in the same area and affected populous if I want anyone at all telling me what is just or unjust, lawful or unlawful. Sadly, no one is quite as special as I am, so I don't hold out much hope.

[3rdnlng]

Meaz, feel special because normally I don't give real responses in this basement hole...

 

I do not think he is a racist. I do not think he holds people on separate standards based on race alone. I think he is like many older men and women in this society that grew up in small towns, ignorant communities and raised a little backwards to what culture has deemed cultural.

 

He comes across as many of the 45-50+ year old men I meet in my field. They're not racists, they're not mean spirited or evil, even. They're just set in their ways. They have been in the same position of life for a long time, in the field too long, if you will. They don't need to understand why people wear a hat backward, or why they listen to music loud, or why tight jeans are fashionable, and they most certainly do not understand why some ethnicities act a certain way. They don't understand it because they just don't care to and they don't see the reasoning. Whats the point of wearing a hat backward?

 

See, I am getting off the subject and I am doing so on purpose. The color of a guys skin matters as much as the backward hat he is wearing to guys like this.

 

Do not confuse his issues and statements about welfare to be about race. The easiest way to explain this guys view on welfare? Everything he has earned has come with struggle, blood, sweat and tears. The fact that he is an !@#$ who mooched illegally off the government not withstanding in this argument (yet). He worked hard for what little is his and has seen it taken from him and just had enough. That is at least his viewpoint and we cannot argue against that; we can only argue its validity.

 

Bundy just doesn't care or get it when it comes to who tells him what he can and can't do because he is an !@#$.

 

It allows those golden rays of sunshine to reach your face and burn your nose.

[RI Bills Fan]

Who are other people? How many other people? Are those other people representative of me? I mean ME, too. I don't need other people to be a 20 year old couple in Vermont, or a 60+ year old woman in Nevada, or a 4-something year old man in Wisconsin.

 

I want similar people to myself, in the same area and affected populous if I want anyone at all telling me what is just or unjust, lawful or unlawful. Sadly, no one is quite as special as I am, so I don't hold out much hope.

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe each citizen has the right to choose which laws apply to them based on their individual perception of that law's "justness"?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

So do you also oppose the government enforcing laws which other people consider to be unjust or is it only the laws that you consider to be unjust?

If you'd like to ask a question about the nature of injustice, I'll ask you to start another thread. This thread is about the Bundy Ranch, not Rights Theory.

 

 

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe each citizen has the right to choose which laws apply to them based on their individual perception of that law's "justness"?

Again, start another thread rather than derailing this one.

[boyst]

So am I correct in assuming that you believe each citizen has the right to choose which laws apply to them based on their individual perception of that law's "justness"?

Yep. You'd be correct.

 

Just the same, society and other individuals have just as much right to decide which laws and rules should apply to those who make their own laws and rules.

 

What you likely disagree with is the spectrum of the society. But, you're also pretty ignorant, so its hard to discuss confusing subjects with you.

[TH3]

Hardly. What I oppose, quite strenuously, is the government enforcing unjust laws.

 

Yes - it is so unjust to ask for rent......there is a system for determining what is not just....called the courts, appellate courts....SCOTUS....commonly called the rule of law.....

 

There is nothing about this case worth defending.....and the more anyone defends this case the less credibility they have....

[RI Bills Fan]

If you'd like to ask a question about the nature of injustice, I'll ask you to start another thread. This thread is about the Bundy Ranch, not Rights Theory.

 

 

Again, start another thread rather than derailing this one.

 

So in your view, my attempting to clarify the position you espoused in this thread is an attempt to derail the thread. How exactly does that work?

 

Yep. You'd be correct.

 

Just the same, society and other individuals have just as much right to decide which laws and rules should apply to those who make their own laws and rules.

 

What you likely disagree with is the spectrum of the society. But, you're also pretty ignorant, so its hard to discuss confusing subjects with you.

 

And your belief in my ignorance stems from what, exactly?

[boyst]

So in your view, my attempting to clarify the position you espoused in this thread is an attempt to derail the thread. How exactly does that work?

 

 

 

And your belief in my ignorance stems from what, exactly?

your replies. logic

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe each citizen has the right to choose which laws apply to them based on their individual perception of that law's "justness"?

Your reply above is an example. Turning this in to an issue of rights and lawfulness not withstanding, your inability to understand that even while I want individuals to have their own freedoms I am not saying I want anarchy or vigilantism. When I said up you said down. When someone else said left you said right. You provided little to no valid counter argument.

[RI Bills Fan]

your replies. logic

 

Your reply above is an example. Turning this in to an issue of rights and lawfulness not withstanding, your inability to understand that even while I want individuals to have their own freedoms I am not saying I want anarchy or vigilantism. When I said up you said down. When someone else said left you said right. You provided little to no valid counter argument.

 

So if I understand you correctly, my asking someone else a question about a position they espoused in an earlier post, somehow gives you an avenue of insight into my overall intelligence and my ability to discuss "confusing" subjects. Okay...

 

You are right in one area. I didn't provide any counter arguments. Doing so would have been a waste of my time. I did however get exactly the type of response I was expecting.

Edited April 26, 2014 by RI Bills Fan

[Deranged Rhino]

This is perfectly sound logically. When you cannot defeat a man with argument and expose a flaw in his belief system and defiance you brand him a racist.

It would be a nice story, if he hadn't done it to himself. Without provocation. The media reaction is exactly that -- a reaction to his own ignorance and racism. The fact that it overshadows his story is not a surprise or unique. And frankly, it should have been expected.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

I do not think he is a racist. (His own words contradict your belief) I do not think he holds people on separate standards based on race alone. (Not people, just "the negro") I think he is like many older men and women in this society that grew up in small towns, ignorant communities and raised a little backwards to what culture has deemed cultural. (In other words, backwards)

 

He comes across as many of the 45-50+ year old men I meet in my field. They're not racists, they're not mean spirited or evil, even. They're just set in their ways. (Set in their racist ways that reflect how the world looked 50 years ago) They have been in the same position of life for a long time, in the field too long, if you will. (Not every old person is a racist, not every farmer is a racist, but so far you've done nothing but generalize when we're talking about a specific person who very clearly opined his views) They don't need to understand why people wear a hat backward, or why they listen to music loud, or why tight jeans are fashionable, and they most certainly do not understand why some ethnicities act a certain way. They don't understand it because they just don't care to and they don't see the reasoning. (Like the excessive lengths you're going through in this post to try to convince yourself that what this guy said is somehow innocent) Whats the point of wearing a hat backward?

 

See, I am getting off the subject and I am doing so on purpose. The color of a guys skin matters as much as the backward hat he is wearing to guys like this. (Hogwash. Absolute hogwash and completely untrue. He specifically called out an entire race, not a generation)

 

Do not confuse his issues and statements about welfare to be about race. (You cannot separate the two now, which is entirely his own fault and completely deserved, he shot himself in the foot with his own mouth.) The easiest way to explain this guys view on welfare? (It's easy to explain his view on welfare -- it's okay for Bundy to take from the government for free because he's a white male but not okay for "the negro" who was better off in slavery. Do you really want to defend him more?) Everything he has earned has come with struggle, blood, sweat and tears. (Except for the free grazing he's been enjoying for TWENTY YEARS, yes. You're right. He's a self made man.) The fact that he is an !@#$ who mooched illegally off the government not withstanding in this argument (yet). He worked hard for what little is his and has seen it taken from him and just had enough. That is at least his viewpoint and we cannot argue against that; we can only argue its validity. (No, we can and have argued against it.)

 

Bundy just doesn't care or get it when it comes to who tells him what he can and can't do because he is an !@#$. (A racist ass)

[Deranged Rhino]

it's sad you actually have to explain this to someone

For once, I'm in complete agreement with you.