Alphadawg7 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) JAX may be a good partner to swap picks with if we were really interested in doing so but what would we be giving up this year or next? Another question would be is he worth it , is he that kind of talent and does it drop off big from him to Mike Evans in regards to full package and playmaking ability? Anyone who watches college football (not me) could have valid discussion here I'd enjoy hearing what you have to say. I know we need O-Line but man that is soooo boring of a pick to spend in the first round. Let me ask everyone this: Why would you trade up for Watkins when you can trade less to get Jimmy Graham? To get Watkins, we give up #9 and also likely give up at least next years first, maybe more. So we get Watkins and we give up #9, next years first, and possibly another pick. Thats for a guy who is nothing more than potential at this point. Maybe Jax is desperate to trade down and we only give up #9 and a 2nd. Still, a lot to give up for an unknown player. In Jimmy Graham we give up only #9 and next years first. Thats for a guy who is the best by a mile at his position, one of only a few players that can create such a dramatic mismatch on the field, a guy who is still young, a guy who is ELITE, not just great, but ELITE and rare. A guy who is on the path to the HOF. This is why it baffles me how so many people easily can part with picks to move up in a draft, yet balk at moving the same picks, or less, for an ELITE player with no unknowns who is young enough to have a lot of years left with the team. And in todays day of FA, players often don't spend their whole careers with teams unless they are QB's anyway. The odd that the draft pick is going to ever be on the level of a Jimmy Graham are slim, I don't care what the pre draft hype is. You can count on one hand the numbers of players (not playing QB) on the offense that dominate their position the way he does...and a position of major need for this team. So, if we are going to make a trade, then NO do not trade up for Watkins, trade for Jimmy Graham...we have the cap room, and its a way better way to spend draft picks in a trade. Elite player or unknown...I go Elite all day and twice on Sunday. Edited March 14, 2014 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I do not want the Bills giving up 2 #1s for Watkins, Graham is interesting but you have to take into account the massive contract he will require. The Bills have the cap space so that shouldn't matter too much unless they are working on extensions for guys on the roster already. The Bills can also negotiate a deal with the Saints that doesn't include 2 #1's but I have no clue what the asking price would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 This is why it baffles me how so many people easily can part with picks to move up in a draft, yet balk at moving the same picks, or less, for an ELITE player with no unknowns who is young enough to have a lot of years left with the team. And in todays day of FA, players often don't spend their whole careers with teams unless they are QB's anyway. Because it's easy to do on a message board, where there are no repercussions. People are falling in love watching NFL draft porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Let me ask everyone this: Why would you trade up for Watkins when you can trade less to get Jimmy Graham? To get Watkins, we give up #9 and also likely give up at least next years first, maybe more. So we get Watkins and we give up #9, next years first, and possibly another pick. Thats for a guy who is nothing more than potential at this point. Maybe Jax is desperate to trade down and we only give up #9 and a 2nd. Still, a lot to give up for an unknown player. In Jimmy Graham we give up only #9 and next years first. Thats for a guy who is the best by a mile at his position, one of only a few players that can create such a dramatic mismatch on the field, a guy who is still young, a guy who is ELITE, not just great, but ELITE and rare. A guy who is on the path to the HOF. This is why it baffles me how so many people easily can part with picks to move up in a draft, yet balk at moving the same picks, or less, for an ELITE player with no unknowns who is young enough to have a lot of years left with the team. And in todays day of FA, players often don't spend their whole careers with teams unless they are QB's anyway. The odd that the draft pick is going to ever be on the level of a Jimmy Graham are slim, I don't care what the pre draft hype is. You can count on one hand the numbers of players (not playing QB) on the offense that dominate their position the way he does...and a position of major need for this team. So, if we are going to make a trade, then NO do not trade up for Watkins, trade for Jimmy Graham...we have the cap room, and its a way better way to spend draft picks in a trade. Elite player or unknown...I go Elite all day and twice on Sunday. As a New Orleanian that follows the Saints I will take a stab. Graham is a matchup problem for teams but can be shut down (see Seattle). We are talking about a 1st and a 2nd for Watkins on a rookie deal vs. 2 1sts for Graham at about $11M a year. I love Graham as a player but I'm afraid we may have seen his best. He has been injured in 3 of his 4 seasons and plays a violent style. He certainly fills a need and is great but Im not sure that you would be better off with Graham at this point. Watkins is going to be a star but you shouldn't give up next years first for either, not until the QB position is solved. Edited March 14, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I do not want the Bills giving up 2 #1s for Watkins, Graham is interesting but you have to take into account the massive contract he will require. The Bills have the cap space so that shouldn't matter too much unless they are working on extensions for guys on the roster already. The Bills can also negotiate a deal with the Saints that doesn't include 2 #1's but I have no clue what the asking price would be. Giving the 9th and 41st in this draft is maybe worse (depending on where the Bills finish). Next years draft won't be nearly as deep, because so many Juniors jumped this year. This is the draft to collect extra picks not fritter away a high second to move up a few picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I do not want the Bills giving up 2 #1s for Watkins, Graham is interesting but you have to take into account the massive contract he will require. The Bills have the cap space so that shouldn't matter too much unless they are working on extensions for guys on the roster already. The Bills can also negotiate a deal with the Saints that doesn't include 2 #1's but I have no clue what the asking price would be. Thats a good point I forgot to bring up, so thank you for also pointing that out about how we can negotiate that down. We lost a lot of close games last year, games where literally a single play or two can be pointed out as to why we lost...and all that while our Secondary, QB's, RB's, WR's etc were decimated by injuries. Games where we just couldn't punch it in while in the redzone or convert a key 3rd down. A guy like Jimmy Graham could have potentially been enough of an improvement on this team that we could have won several of those games and others. He is a guy that would literally raise our win potential on his own based on how many close games we were in and would be a huge piece to developing our young QB. To me, if I have to choose giving up picks to get Watkins or Graham...its a no brainer, its Graham all day. And as far as money goes, we have cap room...Jimmy Graham is worth the money, and you need talent to win, and you have to pay talent. If Watkins turned out to be great, it would be just a matter of time before we have to pay him a huge contract too...and it would likely be a decent amount more than what we would be paying Jimmy and I doubt Watkins will ever be as impactful as Jimmy given the rarity of dominance Jimmy has at his position. Watkins would have to develop into a Calvin type of player to impact our team as much as Jimmy impacts the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 As a New Orleanian that follows the Saints I will take a stab. Graham is a matchup problem for teams but can be shut down (see Seattle). We are talking about a 1st and a 2nd for Watkins on a rookie deal vs. 2 1sts for Graham at about $11M a year. I love Graham as a player but I'm afraid we may have seen his best. He has been injured in 3 of his 4 seasons and plays a violent style. He certainly fills a need and is great but Im not sure that you would be better off with Graham at this point. Watkins is going to be a star but you shouldn't give up next years first for either, not until the QB position is solved. right, in this case everyone always forgets the contract. its always graham, vs the 2 first round picks AND you still have the cap space to add a premiere free agent... in this case it would be graham vs watkins AND a 9-10m a year free agent and i think we generally agree on graham. love the guy but not sure how long he lasts at the level he has played. ive tossed around the possibility of a shockey career arc, or even gronkowski as a peer struggling with physical demands of the tight end position on beast athlete. i dont know how hes gotten up from a lot of hits (im not talking just big hits but "is his career over" type of hits).... hes a physical freak, but it worries me that it has to catch up someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 As a New Orleanian that follows the Saints I will take a stab. Graham is a matchup problem for teams but can be shut down (see Seattle). We are talking about a 1st and a 2nd for Watkins on a rookie deal vs. 2 1sts for Graham at about $11M a year. I love Graham as a player but I'm afraid we may have seen his best. He has been injured in 3 of his 4 seasons and plays a violent style. He certainly fills a need and is great but Im not sure that you would be better off with Graham at this point. Watkins is going to be a star but you shouldn't give up next years first for either, not until the QB position is solved. Fair points...but at the same time Graham is young enough to feel you will get your value out of him. Its easy to say Watkins is gonna be a star, but for every Calvin Johnson there are multiple Charles Rogers. Look at that year we took James Hardy...there were 4 guys we were all but a lock to take at WR with our first round pick. None of those guys went round 1, and none of those guys are even in the league anymore. Guys like DeSean Jackson that no one talked about had solid careers. So, pre draft hype is one thing...delivering on those expectations on the field is another. So to give up assets for hype is crazy to me when you can give up assets for an Elite player who is a matchup nightmare. Especially if the assets you are giving up for hype is 2 picks in a very deep draft (like our 9th and 2nd rounder this year to get say Watkins versus only our 9th this year and next years pick in a weaker draft). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) There are no indications that Watkins is a good Red Zone receiver, which is where the Bills struggle most in the receiving game. It's not like he is the perfect fit for what ails them (a tall Calvin Johnson type would be...that's not Watkins). Edited March 14, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Fair points...but at the same time Graham is young enough to feel you will get your value out of him. Its easy to say Watkins is gonna be a star, but for every Calvin Johnson there are multiple Charles Rogers. Look at that year we took James Hardy...there were 4 guys we were all but a lock to take at WR with our first round pick. None of those guys went round 1, and none of those guys are even in the league anymore. Guys like DeSean Jackson that no one talked about had solid careers. So, pre draft hype is one thing...delivering on those expectations on the field is another. So to give up assets for hype is crazy to me when you can give up assets for an Elite player who is a matchup nightmare. Especially if the assets you are giving up for hype is 2 picks in a very deep draft (like our 9th and 2nd rounder this year to get say Watkins versus only our 9th this year and next years pick in a weaker draft). I am a big, big fan of Graham. It just scares me a little. At the same time I think that Watkins is really safe. He is a high floor high ceiling guy. That is the big difference between Watkins and Evans IMO. Evans could be great or could be a bust. I think that Watkins floor is like a Stevie Johnson career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 There are no indications that Watkins is a good Red Zone receiver, which is where the Bills struggle most in the receiving game. It's not like he is the perfect fit for what ails them (a tall Calvin Johnson type would be...that's not Watkins). How much have your watched of Watkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 There are no indications that Watkins is a good Red Zone receiver, which is where the Bills struggle most in the receiving game. It's not like he is the perfect fit for what ails them (a tall Calvin Johnson type would be...that's not Watkins). He high points well though. It's a give and take though. You may not throw him red zone fades like Evans but at the same time you may throw him a slant at your own 10 and find him 90 yards later in the end zone. He's a really gifted WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 no . I would not trade up for Watkins. No matter how good he might be.. I would love him to fall to us though lol. But Bills still should be adding picks whenever it makes sense . At nine we are getting a pretty solid player as long as Bills stay away from QB. Stick to the board Buffalo and get an impact BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I wouldn't doubt if we trade out of 9 and grab some extra picks. I can see them taking Benjamin with a later 1st rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I really like Donte Moncrief who I think is about 96% as good as Watkins - and he's a 2nd or 3rd round guy, this draft is pretty deep in WRs and I'm not moving up unless their is a massive difference between SW and the rest which I don't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) How much have your watched of Watkins? His highlights, and a few "every play Vs._____ vids". That's not enough? Not many touchdowns in the Red Zone, so I have to assume he either didn't catch many, or they didn't throw to him there (hence, "no indications"). http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/no-9-clemson-struggling-footballs-red-zone Someone will say "yeah, they were all 50 yarders", but that's not gonna happen as often in the NFL. In the NFL it's about getting into the Red Zone, and capitalizing. The Bills have moved it all right, they just settled for too many field goals. I don't doubt he will be a good pro, but I wouldn't give up those picks, in this draft, to get a player like him, for this team. Edited March 15, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Maybe in the old days when salaries were out of control for those picks but with the new rookie cap it makes a lot of sense if there is a guy you really want. I am in on trading up for Sammy and wouldn't mind a slight overpayment. I think he is going to be a really speical player. Trading #9 and #41 for Sammy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take Evans at #9. I was only referring to the picks it would take to get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 JAX may be a good partner to swap picks with if we were really interested in doing so but what would we be giving up this year or next? Another question would be is he worth it , is he that kind of talent and does it drop off big from him to Mike Evans in regards to full package and playmaking ability? Anyone who watches college football (not me) could have valid discussion here I'd enjoy hearing what you have to say. I know we need O-Line but man that is soooo boring of a pick to spend in the first round. Moot point as we will go OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I feel our talent level has risen significantly in the last few seasons, despite our putrid results. We remain a playoff 'dinosaur' having not been there in forever. This is a very, very deep draft. If anything, collect picks and build. Just my 2 pennies. We are more than a 'great' wide receiver away from anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It's about the coaching staff and the QB. The Bills have as much talent as the Patriots everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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