Forget big WR's with the first pick, draft Eric Ebron

[Kirby Jackson]

Thanks,

 

The draft is certainly deep for the O line, just not for elite O line players.

 

The Bills brought in TO thinking it would help them open up the offense, and what they found out is no QB had the time to get him the ball on a consistent basis. A #1 pick on WR Lee Evans...did that pick get them to the playoffs?

 

You can have five all pro receivers on the team, and if the QB doesn't have the time to get the ball to those players.... nothing else matters!!!

 

 

Anyway, i don't care if this team goes Evans, Watkins, or Ebron. If they don't find some elite players for that O line like they have all over the defense, it really won't matter what receiver, LBer or skill player they draft.

The last paragraph is where we disagree. Any good players that you get are going to make you better regardless of the position. If you get a WR that has 70 catches for 1,100 yards & 9 TDs you will be better. Watkins specifically is capable of going the distance and scoring from 85 yards away on a slant or screen even.

[RK_BillsFan]

I still just don't see us taking a TE at 9, or even with our first pick. I'll say it again, A catching TE means nothing if the QB is on his back. That being said 2 players the Bills do seem high on are:

 

Zach Martin and “The Nicklas kid, the tight end from Notre Dame was an impressive specimen." Doug Whaley quote

 

That being said, I will do a much larger post on possible draft picks and where I feel we can take players based on certain draft scenarios.

[thewildrabbit]

The last paragraph is where we disagree. Any good players that you get are going to make you better regardless of the position. If you get a WR that has 70 catches for 1,100 yards & 9 TDs you will be better. Watkins specifically is capable of going the distance and scoring from 85 yards away on a slant or screen even.

No WR, TE is going to have 70 catches if the QB can't get the ball to him. Why doesn't most of this board understand this concept?

 

No offense, but you simply fail to comprehend the difference between an average O linemen and an elite one. With the average you get what we saw last season. With an elite line you get Tom Brady like time in the pocket with any QB back there, even rookies. Three to five seconds covers 90% of the playbook, and it allows for the deep passes. Which makes more use of TJ Graham, and Marquise Goodwins speed. BTW, Goodwin ran a blistering 4.27 at the combine!

 

The Bills tried to run a hurry up, fast paced WC type of offense that got the ball out in a hurry. Did you see the previous stats for that failure? 108 hits, 48 sacks. The Bills don't have an elite QB, and may never have one, or develop one if they constantly fail to protect them.

[Kirby Jackson]

No WR, TE is going to have 70 catches if the QB can't get the ball to him. Why doesn't most of this board understand this concept?

 

No offense, but you simply fail to comprehend the difference between an average O linemen and an elite one. With the average you get what we saw last season. With an elite line you get Tom Brady like time in the pocket with any QB back there, even rookies. Three to five seconds covers 90% of the playbook, and it allows for the deep passes. Which makes more use of TJ Graham, and Marquise Goodwins speed. BTW, Goodwin ran a blistering 4.27 at the combine!

 

The Bills tried to run a hurry up, fast paced WC type of offense that got the ball out in a hurry. Did you see the previous stats for that failure? 108 hits, 48 sacks. The Bills don't have an elite QB, and may never have one, or develop one if they constantly fail to protect them.

We can agree that you can't win without a QB. There are lots of ways to build a winner though. The Seahawks had the 26th ranked OL in football last year according to PFF (11 spots behind the Bills) and they won the Super Bowl. I believe that their RT was a 7th round pick if I am not mistaken. If the QB can't get rid of the ball there are lots of reasons. I think that EJ's vision really hurts the OL.

 

The point that I was making earlier is that if EJ throws a bubble screen to Watkins and he takes it 85 yards it is making an impact. Elite players can make plays like that.

 

Stephen Neal started during the Super Bowl years and he was a college wrestler. He didn't even play football in college. You simply do not need to take RT at 9. The Pats starting OL in their 1st Super Bowl consisted of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and an undrafted guy.

 

Edited February 26, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[thewildrabbit]

We can agree that you can't win without a QB. There are lots of ways to build a winner though. The Seahawks had the 26th ranked OL in football last year according to PFF (11 spots behind the Bills) and they won the Super Bowl. I believe that their RT was a 7th round pick if I am not mistaken. If the QB can't get rid of the ball there are lots of reasons. I think that EJ's vision really hurts the OL.

 

The point that I was making earlier is that if EJ throws a bubble screen to Watkins and he takes it 85 yards it is making an impact. Elite players can make plays like that.

 

Stephen Neal started during the Super Bowl years and he was a college wrestler. He didn't even play football in college. You simply do not need to take RT at 9. The Pats starting OL in their 1st Super Bowl consisted of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and an undrafted guy.

C'mon KJ, please don't equate EJ to Russell Wilson, every team in the NFL besides the Seahawks is kicking themselves for passing on him. You think its OK to draft nothing but #1s & #2's to build a secondary like the Seahawks have, yet they didn't do that at all. Pete Carroll discussed how he built that secondary..

 

 

http://blog.masslive...ried_about.html

 

"Everybody would like to longer, taller guys that run 4.4," Carroll said. "But there just aren't many humans like that in the world. It's rare when you find them. Then you have to develop them.

 

 

There has been a world of difference between the talent elevators on the Patriots vs Buffalo Bills the last 17 years is the reason the Patriots don't need to spend #9's on the O line. Besides, they haven't drafted that early for as long as the Bills have been bad. Logan Mankins was a 1st round pick by the Patriots, an OG too. Nate Solder was a 1st round pick OT.

 

I now realize there is no getting thru to you on this subject. You think that its perfectly fine to draft anyone but an O lineman that early in the draft. Yet every year teams draft them that early, and mostly playoff teams. Kinda surprises me that you simply fail to understand the correlation between an average player and an elite player on the O line. Oh, well...

 

 

You can't get a young QB to develop properly getting sacked and hit so often. Is that really so difficult to understand?

Edited February 26, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[Kirby Jackson]

C'mon KJ, please don't equate EJ to Russell Wilson, every team in the NFL besides the Seahawks is kicking themselves for passing on him. You think its OK to draft nothing but #1s & #2's to build a secondary like the Seahawks have, yet they didn't do that at all. Pete Carroll discussed how he built that secondary..

 

 

http://blog.masslive...ried_about.html

 

"Everybody would like to longer, taller guys that run 4.4," Carroll said. "But there just aren't many humans like that in the world. It's rare when you find them. Then you have to develop them.

 

 

There has been a world of difference between the talent elevators on the Patriots vs Buffalo Bills the last 17 years is the reason the Patriots don't need to spend #9's on the O line. Besides, they haven't drafted that early for as long as the Bills have been bad. Logan Mankins was a 1st round pick by the Patriots, an OG too. Nate Solder was a 1st round pick OT.

 

I now realize there is no getting thru to you on this subject. You think that its perfectly fine to draft anyone but an O lineman that early in the draft. Yet every year teams draft them that early, and mostly playoff teams. Kinda surprises me that you simply fail to understand the correlation between an average player and an elite player on the O line. Oh, well...

 

 

You can't get a young QB to develop properly getting sacked and hit so often. Is that really so difficult to understand?

No, I subscribe to the same draft philosophy as Bill Poilan. The top 10 is for elite pass rushers, LT, elite skill players and QB. It is like you would rather have a good OL than a good team. I have used statistics to back all of my arguments and refute yours. It is a fact that the Patriots had one 1st rounder on the 1st Super Bowl team. You were the one that brought up the Patriots example, not me. They later drafted Mankins and years later Solder as they were consistenting picking in the mid to late 20's not top 10.

 

I am also on record as saying that I would take 2 OL in rounds 2-4 (or after trading back from 9). You said that "every year team's draft them early." There is 1 tackle in football that was drafted in the top 9 to not block the blindside -1. Who is everyone? Do you honestly, in your heart believe that if they drafted a RT it would more directly impact their wins and losses than Watkins?? How many teams in this years draft (called the most talented in 30 years by Kevin Colbert) are targeting RT in the 1st half of the 1st round?

 

What does Seattle's bad line have to do with their decent QB? I would not draft DBs early (see my philosophy above). Seattle found those guys throughout the draft just like they found their ILB and RT.

 

Somebody help me out here. What is it that I am not seeing? In the deepest OL draft maybe ever why is it that the Bills should expend a top 10 pick on a RT (not LT) to block for a QB that we have no idea will develop? You get elite talent when you have the chance. You draft pass rushers, QB, LT and elite skill players in the top 10 because that is where they get drafted. This years top player's to be drafted (not necessarily big board): Clowney, Mack, Barr (pass rushers), Robinson, Lewan, Matthews (LT), Manziel, Bortles, Bridgewater (QB), Watkins, Evans, Ebron, Gilbert (elite skill players). What am I missing?

 

 

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Draft an OT and play him on the right side. See who is better, Glenn or the rook. You have years to decide with the rookie cap. Pay RT LT money? I think this gap is closing and I have no problem investing significant money at both ends of the OL. We'll see what the future brings, but teams recognize they need to block speed rushers off both sides of the line as Ds get more complex and DEs become pass rush specialists in the pass happy NFL. Last year OL talent went quick with six of the first eleven guys drafted being OL. We need premier talent on the OL and not servicable guys. IMO Glen is not premier talent, but could develop further. Pears is not servicable. None of our OL are currently premier talent. I like Wood, but he needs to step it up. I'd like to see OT, WR, OG in the first three rounds and address LB through FA. Resign Chandler at TE who is servicable and I like Moeaki provided he is healthy. He seems able to play every other year so 2014 should be a go.

 

Borrowed from another thread.

 

eartheLosing, on 14 February 2014 - 12:27 PM, said: Three of the top four players in last years draft were all OT's, and all three played RT

1. Chiefs, OT Eric Fisher played RT- playoffs
   
2. Jags, OT Luke Joeckel played RT
   
3. Dolphins, OLB
   
4. Eagles, OTLane Johnson played RT-playoffs
   
5. Lions, DE
   
6. Browns, OLB
   
7. Cardinals, OG Jonathan Cooper- finished 10-6
   
8. St Louis, WR
   
9. Jets, CB
   
10. Titans, OG Chance Warmack
    
11. Chargers, OT DJ Fluker, played RT- playoffs
    

So, out of the first 11players taken in last years draft four were OT's, two were OG's. You figure it out!

[Kirby Jackson]

Draft an OT and play him on the right side. See who is better, Glenn or the rook. You have years to decide with the rookie cap. Pay RT LT money? I think this gap is closing and I have no problem investing significant money at both ends of the OL. We'll see what the future brings, but teams recognize they need to block speed rushers off both sides of the line as Ds get more complex and DEs become pass rush specialists in the pass happy NFL. Last year OL talent went quick with six of the first eleven guys drafted being OL. We need premier talent on the OL and not servicable guys. IMO Glen is not premier talent, but could develop further. Pears is not servicable. None of our OL are currently premier talent. I like Wood, but he needs to step it up. I'd like to see OT, WR, OG in the first three rounds and address LB through FA. Resign Chandler at TE who is servicable and I like Moeaki provided he is healthy. He seems able to play every other year so 2014 should be a go.

 

Borrowed from another thread.

 

eartheLosing, on 14 February 2014 - 12:27 PM, said: Three of the top four players in last years draft were all OT's, and all three played RT

1. Chiefs, OT Eric Fisher played RT- playoffs
   
2. Jags, OT Luke Joeckel played RT
   
3. Dolphins, OLB
   
4. Eagles, OTLane Johnson played RT-playoffs
   
5. Lions, DE
   
6. Browns, OLB
   
7. Cardinals, OG Jonathan Cooper- finished 10-6
   
8. St Louis, WR
   
9. Jets, CB
   
10. Titans, OG Chance Warmack
    
11. Chargers, OT DJ Fluker, played RT- playoffs
    

So, out of the first 11players taken in last years draft four were OT's, two were OG's. You figure it out!

The only problem with that is that there were at least 4 rookie OL that were better than any of the top 10 guys (Warford, Frederick, Pugh and Fluker). Warford was certainly the best of the bunch and he did not go in round 1. Frederick was next and he went 32. Fisher was atrocious, Joekel and Warmack bad, Johnson and Fluker average and Cooper didn't play a down. The advanced analytics all support that (I couldn't link the article but google first rounders in focus: end of season). What exactly are we supposed to take away from that class??

 

I am fine with trading down and picking up RT. you just do not need to take them at 9. The Bills have a LT that was named one of the 2 tackles on the NFL All-under 25 team (with Tyron Smith). You certainly are not drafting someone in the top 10 to replace one of the 2 best players in the league at his position under 25 years old. That's not an option.

[thewildrabbit]

Draft an OT and play him on the right side. See who is better, Glenn or the rook. You have years to decide with the rookie cap. Pay RT LT money? I think this gap is closing and I have no problem investing significant money at both ends of the OL. We'll see what the future brings, but teams recognize they need to block speed rushers off both sides of the line as Ds get more complex and DEs become pass rush specialists in the pass happy NFL. Last year OL talent went quick with six of the first eleven guys drafted being OL. We need premier talent on the OL and not servicable guys. IMO Glen is not premier talent, but could develop further. Pears is not servicable. None of our OL are currently premier talent. I like Wood, but he needs to step it up. I'd like to see OT, WR, OG in the first three rounds and address LB through FA. Resign Chandler at TE who is servicable and I like Moeaki provided he is healthy. He seems able to play every other year so 2014 should be a go.

 

Borrowed from another thread.

 

eartheLosing, on 14 February 2014 - 12:27 PM, said: Three of the top four players in last years draft were all OT's, and all three played RT

1. Chiefs, OT Eric Fisher played RT- playoffs
   
2. Jags, OT Luke Joeckel played RT
   
3. Dolphins, OLB
   
4. Eagles, OTLane Johnson played RT-playoffs
   
5. Lions, DE
   
6. Browns, OLB
   
7. Cardinals, OG Jonathan Cooper- finished 10-6
   
8. St Louis, WR
   
9. Jets, CB
   
10. Titans, OG Chance Warmack
    
11. Chargers, OT DJ Fluker, played RT- playoffs
    

So, out of the first 11players taken in last years draft four were OT's, two were OG's. You figure it out!

 

Some fans just don't understand that elite talent on the O line is just as important as other positions, and perhaps even more so with a young developing QB behind center.

 

I'm from a current school of thought in Andy Reid, and like him, I love me some big uglies.

 

The Seahawks currently have a very special mobile QB who can run the read option, and when his pocket breaks down he can make plays on his own by moving around until his receivers break open or make first downs on his own. Thus driving defenses crazy trying to contain him.

 

There are other QB's similar to this style of play in pocket passers who can make plays with an average O line, i.e. Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers. But aren't so mobile as Wilson. Those QB's have been taking quite a bit of punishment for that style of play, as both have recently missed considerable time. Both have also missed the playoffs due to injuries. Rodgers missed seven games last season, and the playoffs.

 

Although Ben Rothlisberger played in all 16 games last season, the last time he played in all 16 games was 2008. Now that he is older, and less mobile he is more reliant on having a solid pocket to float around in. That Steeler O line, as bad as it was last year, was far better then the Bills O line in pass blocking.

 

The Bills don't have an Aaron Rodgers, or a Big Ben at QB.

 

What they do have is several rookies at QB who struggled last season due to an inferior O line. The Bills started the year with a left guard who graded as the very worst player in the NFL last year at any position. Then they outright cut him and and his backup after six weeks. They replaced him with a player who graded as the worst player on a bad Steeler O line in 2012.

 

The Mere fact that the Bills finished the season being swept by their biggest division rival in the New England Patriots. The very team they need to beat in order to win the division. Three of the five players on that Bills O line graded in the red!! The Bills ranked 28th in pass protection!! If the Bills don't fix that line...then nothing else they do matters!!

[1billsfan]

Draft an OT and play him on the right side. See who is better, Glenn or the rook. You have years to decide with the rookie cap. Pay RT LT money? I think this gap is closing and I have no problem investing significant money at both ends of the OL. We'll see what the future brings, but teams recognize they need to block speed rushers off both sides of the line as Ds get more complex and DEs become pass rush specialists in the pass happy NFL. Last year OL talent went quick with six of the first eleven guys drafted being OL. We need premier talent on the OL and not servicable guys. IMO Glen is not premier talent, but could develop further. Pears is not servicable. None of our OL are currently premier talent. I like Wood, but he needs to step it up. I'd like to see OT, WR, OG in the first three rounds and address LB through FA. Resign Chandler at TE who is servicable and I like Moeaki provided he is healthy. He seems able to play every other year so 2014 should be a go.

 

Borrowed from another thread.

 

eartheLosing, on 14 February 2014 - 12:27 PM, said: Three of the top four players in last years draft were all OT's, and all three played RT

1. Chiefs, OT Eric Fisher played RT- playoffs
   
2. Jags, OT Luke Joeckel played RT
   
3. Dolphins, OLB
   
4. Eagles, OTLane Johnson played RT-playoffs
   
5. Lions, DE
   
6. Browns, OLB
   
7. Cardinals, OG Jonathan Cooper- finished 10-6
   
8. St Louis, WR
   
9. Jets, CB
   
10. Titans, OG Chance Warmack
    
11. Chargers, OT DJ Fluker, played RT- playoffs
    

So, out of the first 11players taken in last years draft four were OT's, two were OG's. You figure it out!

 

 

This year's draft has no correlation to last year's draft. On a scale of 1 to 10, the receiver class in last year's draft was a 2 compared to this year's 10.

 

There are many recent playoff/successful teams who have taken WRs and TEs in the first round and were a big part to numerous playoff appearances...Bengals (Green), Texans (Johnson), Broncos (Thomas), Giants (Nicks), Atlanta (Jones, White), Niners (Crabtree, Davis), Cardinals (Fitzgerald)

 

I really think that the Bills will correctly draft a premiere receiving talent simply because there will be a few OL who have first round grades remaining when their second round pick comes up. I don't think that will be the case at WR since I think the premiere WR talent will all be taken before the Bills pick at #41....Watkins, Evans, Lee, Benjamin, Cooks, Beckham, Matthews will all be gone IMO.

Edited February 26, 2014 by 1billsfan

[Kirby Jackson]

There's no reasoning with the unreasonable. The Bills need 3 OL (starting LG, starting RT and a versatile guy for depth). The evidence would show that these are not spots that you fill with a top 10 pick. The top half of the 1st round is reserved for impact players. Fortunately, from what I am hearing the Bills regime subscribes to this theory.

 

Of course I am in favor of an elite OL. I am also in favor of elite pass rush, elite run d, elite QB, elite running game, elite playmakers, elite secondary elite coaching and elite special teams. Go ask Andy Reid if he would have rather taken Eric Fisher with the 1st overall pick or Larry Warford in the 2nd round (assuming they kept their 2nd).

[C.Biscuit97]

I agree that TE is a need. I also think that Ebron could be in the conversation at the 9th pick, but I don't think he is a star. Vernon Davis is very good, a bit more athletic than Ebron - and yet Davis is not really a star. Davis has averaged about 50 catches and 7 TDs per year over his career.

 

I also don't think that at 6'4", Ebron "is open when he is not". That's Calvin Johnson, Anquan Bolden, Alshon Jefferies, Brandon Marshal - not many other guys. I am not totally sold on Mike Evans, either, but I think that he better fits that description than does Ebron.

 

Vernon Davis had 13 tds last year and struggled with injuries. It was the 2nd time in his career he had 13 tds. I think people forget how terrible Alex Smith was before 3 years ago. We got 2 tds out of our TE last year.

[Turbosrrgood]

My concern is if they dont make TE a prioriy early then it wont be a priority at all

 

 

That's really not a rational concern, considering how deep the TE position is though out the draft. I think the best tight end in the draft is ASJ, and he could very well go in the second round. Niklas also could be a very good, and very complete TE in the 3rd. Fiedorowicz is another Niklas style TE that could be very good in the 4th. Keep in mind guys like Hernandez, Graham, and Gronk were not 1st round picks. The idea that you have to reach for a TE in the top 10, or even the 1st round to have any hope for success is proven false by history.

 

Its not the highth that makes him open when he is not....the kid is a fricken Clydesdale and I dont care what anyone says....4.6 speed is REALLY fast for a huge physical presense like that

 

Not trying to pick on you, but a Clysdesdale is a terrible comparison. They are massive, extremely strong, but very slow. The exact opposite of Ebron, who is undersized, not particularly strong, but very quick. Thoroughbred might work. I've said this before, but he overwhelmingly played from a WR position, not inline TE.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[RK_BillsFan]

While i was initially on the draft an OL with the 9th pick, there were 2 major factors for that:

 

1) Sammy Watkins was not there ( this is very important)

2) We didn't trade back.

 

We are all in agreement that LG and RT are bad and that our WR is unproven at best. We also all agree that this draft has an extremely deep OL and WR Class as well as upgrades to be had at TE in the later rounds. While many are enamored with Ebron, I simply am not. I do not see him as any better than ASJ. Moving on to the point of this post:

 

The best thing the Bills can do is trade back from the 9th spot, ESPECIALLY if Watkins is still there. This is going to cause some commotion I'm sure, but let me finish. Watkins is the best NFL ready talent at WR in the draft, and it kills me to say pass on him. The teams coming after us, all the way up to the jets and phins are all looking for OL, DL, CB/Safetys, and MAYBE a WR(lions would probably kill for Watkins). We will have a chance to trade back and pick up some draft picks. Considering who we are leaving on the board and who teams may be jumping ahead of, i see no reason for teams to not take trading their first, giving us their second and swapping thirds(giving us a third).

 

Would you rather have Watkins at 9, or Mike Evans/Kelvin Benjamin/Or someone else at 13-18 with an additional 2nd and either additional 3rd or better third?

 

Another thing to consider would also be to roll the dice and trade back in an attempt to get Watkins a few picks later, however that is unlikely because i can simply not see the lions passing on him if he was on the board.

[thewildrabbit]

While i was initially on the draft an OL with the 9th pick, there were 2 major factors for that:

 

1) Sammy Watkins was not there ( this is very important)

2) We didn't trade back.

 

We are all in agreement that LG and RT are bad and that our WR is unproven at best. We also all agree that this draft has an extremely deep OL and WR Class as well as upgrades to be had at TE in the later rounds. While many are enamored with Ebron, I simply am not. I do not see him as any better than ASJ. Moving on to the point of this post:

 

The best thing the Bills can do is trade back from the 9th spot, ESPECIALLY if Watkins is still there. This is going to cause some commotion I'm sure, but let me finish. Watkins is the best NFL ready talent at WR in the draft, and it kills me to say pass on him. The teams coming after us, all the way up to the jets and phins are all looking for OL, DL, CB/Safetys, and MAYBE a WR(lions would probably kill for Watkins). We will have a chance to trade back and pick up some draft picks. Considering who we are leaving on the board and who teams may be jumping ahead of, i see no reason for teams to not take trading their first, giving us their second and swapping thirds(giving us a third).

 

Would you rather have Watkins at 9, or Mike Evans/Kelvin Benjamin/Or someone else at 13-18 with an additional 2nd and either additional 3rd or better third?

 

Another thing to consider would also be to roll the dice and trade back in an attempt to get Watkins a few picks later, however that is unlikely because i can simply not see the lions passing on him if he was on the board.

Sammy Watkins is currently graded as a top 5 pick, and although he is only 6'1'' 205. He currently is considered the premier WR play maker in this years draft class. Plus, 57% of his catches were screens, and 70% of his catches were within 5 yards of the LoS. He did average the highest YAC between Watkins, Evans, Benjamin, Lee. Watkins is also considered to have the best hands of that bunch.

 

If he is there at the #9 spot the Bills have to take him, no question. He won't be there tho.

 

Whats crazy about this years draft is the top three QB's are dropping and the top three O linemen are moving up.

 

Anyway, I've seen several scouting reports that grade both Evans, and Ebron as mid round picks. Kinda why I'm waiting for Mike Mayock to post his mock draft and updated top 32 players.

 

 

 

On another note, I find it humorous that some want an elite O line, and yet don't want to use elite picks on them

[chris heff]

Sammy Watkins is currently graded as a top 5 pick, and although he is only 6'1'' 205. He currently is considered the premier WR play maker in this years draft class. Plus, 57% of his catches were screens, and 70% of his catches were within 5 yards of the LoS. He did average the highest YAC between Watkins, Evans, Benjamin, Lee. Watkins is also considered to have the best hands of that bunch.

 

If he is there at the #9 spot the Bills have to take him, no question. He won't be there tho.

 

Whats crazy about this years draft is the top three QB's are dropping and the top three O linemen are moving up.

 

Anyway, I've seen several scouting reports that grade both Evans, and Ebron as mid round picks. Kinda why I'm waiting for Mike Mayock to post his mock draft and updated top 32 players.

 

 

 

On another note, I find it humorous that some want an elite O line, and yet don't want to use elite picks on them

It is possible that Watkins is there at 9. Let's say your right about the tackles rising, if three go before before 9, plus three QBs, Clowney and Mack. It is a long shot.

[Kirby Jackson]

On another note, I find it humorous that some want an elite O line, and yet don't want to use elite picks on them

If this is directed at me please go back and read my post because. I would like to be elite everywhere is what I said. That is obvious but you only have so many resources to go around. You have 1 top 10 pick this year. Teams have almost universally decided that in most drafts (last year as an exception) you only draft blindside tackles in the top 10.

 

Seattle's secondary is elite and they only have 1 1st rounder. I would like the Bills to scout well and find players like Kiko and Nickell Robey. I am really not sure what your point is? You really have yet to make a point other than the Bills should draft a tackle. The tackles are good but there is not a need for LT.

 

Denver had the top OL in football last year and that was after stud tackle Ryan Clady went out. Their OL consisted of 2 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th and an undrafted guy. So yeah, you can build an elite OL without using top 10 picks.

[chris heff]

Sammy Watkins is currently graded as a top 5 pick, and although he is only 6'1'' 205. He currently is considered the premier WR play maker in this years draft class. Plus, 57% of his catches were screens, and 70% of his catches were within 5 yards of the LoS. He did average the highest YAC between Watkins, Evans, Benjamin, Lee. Watkins is also considered to have the best hands of that bunch.

 

If he is there at the #9 spot the Bills have to take him, no question. He won't be there tho.

 

Whats crazy about this years draft is the top three QB's are dropping and the top three O linemen are moving up.

 

Anyway, I've seen several scouting reports that grade both Evans, and Ebron as mid round picks. Kinda why I'm waiting for Mike Mayock to post his mock draft and updated top 32 players.

 

 

 

On another note, I find it humorous that some want an elite O line, and yet don't want to use elite picks on them

I didn't have time to finish my thoughts. I don't think anyone disagrees that the OL is important and that it needs help. They need a LG and RT. There in lies the rub. If they needed a LT everyone would be on board. All three tackles in the picture here view themselves as a LT, as does Cordy Glenn. If you draft a tackle at 9 play him for a year at RT and then switch him to LT, you can rest assured that Glenn will leave after his rookie contract is up. Thus no continuity, and back to looking for a RT. If you keep whom ever is drafted at 9 at RT, you are now paying a RT top ten money for four or five years and then he leaves.

[thewildrabbit]

If this is directed at me please go back and read my post because. I would like to be elite everywhere is what I said. That is obvious but you only have so many resources to go around. You have 1 top 10 pick this year. Teams have almost universally decided that in most drafts (last year as an exception) you only draft blindside tackles in the top 10.

 

Seattle's secondary is elite and they only have 1 1st rounder. I would like the Bills to scout well and find players like Kiko and Nickell Robey. I am really not sure what your point is? You really have yet to make a point other than the Bills should draft a tackle. The tackles are good but there is not a need for LT.

 

Denver had the top OL in football last year and that was after stud tackle Ryan Clady went out. Their OL consisted of 2 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th and an undrafted guy. So yeah, you can build an elite OL without using top 10 picks.

My point was last year the Bills were able to find star talent in the draft, in free agency, and in a trade for the defense. Kiko, Manny Lawson, Alan Branch, and Jerry Hughes.

 

OTOH, look what happened with the O line last year. They regressed under a supposed O line guru in Doug Marrone. 16th in run blocking, 28th in pass blocking!

 

The Bills need an elite RT, they need an elite LG. That is, if they ever want to become a viable playoff team that can contend with the (always in the playoffs) NE Patriots.

 

 

Another point I made was that Seattle secondary is elite because of their HC Pete Carroll!! Who is an ex-defensive backs coach who got his first pro job with the Buffalo Bills in 1984 as such, and since has been a DC with the Jets & niners. A head coach with the Jets & Patriots before he became the HC at USC.

 

Did you notice a drop off in the play of that Seattle defense this year under new DC Dan Quinn, compared to 2012 when Gus Bradly was the DC. Bradly was the HC of the Jags last year.

 

Like I posted in an earlier post that you must have missed,

"One of the distinguishing characteristics of Seattle’s defense is the supersized secondary, one that features plenty of taller and heavier defensive backs. But Carroll said it’s difficult to replicate that group.

 

“Everybody would like to longer, taller guys that run 4.4,Carroll said. “But there just aren’t many humans like that in the world. It’s rare when you find them. Then you have to develop them."

 

We’ve been doing it for a long time and always been looking for longer guys because we have such a commitment to bump-and-run press corners. "

 

http://itiswhatitis....t-to-replicate/

 

The Seahawks didn't need to select DB's with #1 picks, as they looked for a certain height, weight, speed, and then developed them.

 

The fact is the Buffalo Bills don't possess a coach anywhere near as good as Carroll.

 

The Buffalo Bills currently have two #1's draft picks at CB, two #2's draft picks at Safety. A top ten defense, a #5 against the pass. The #2 pass rush in the NFL. Yet, are no where near as dominate as the Seahawks on defense.

Edited February 26, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[thewildrabbit]

I didn't have time to finish my thoughts. I don't think anyone disagrees that the OL is important and that it needs help. They need a LG and RT. There in lies the rub. If they needed a LT everyone would be on board. All three tackles in the picture here view themselves as a LT, as does Cordy Glenn. If you draft a tackle at 9 play him for a year at RT and then switch him to LT, you can rest assured that Glenn will leave after his rookie contract is up. Thus no continuity, and back to looking for a RT. If you keep whom ever is drafted at 9 at RT, you are now paying a RT top ten money for four or five years and then he leaves.

While Glenn had a very good year, and looked to be a force at LT. His skill set at LT is not where his strength is at, and that could be a factor in the future. Allow me to explain.

 

Glenn was a force at LT, and looks like a lock to keep his job. He isn't yet up to elite LT status tho. With such a weak link next to him at LG all year defenses focused on that position, and against RT Pears who they knew is not all that good. 108 hits, 48 sacks. for the season.

 

With a top LG next to him ( like Yanky, Su'a-Fulio, Jackson) then that position won't be the weak link and Glenn could see a whole lot more pressure on that edge.

 

 

The Bills fielded a very mediocre O line in 2013. they graded (-12.5) overall, which is not very good!

 

Center Eric Wood had a down year mostly because he missed his support on the left side in Andy Levitre. He still brings it every game and is a solid starter. Not elite.

 

Right guard Kraig Urbik played outstanding in a lot of games last season. But there were also games where he fell on his face. This type of thing can't happen every road game, or against a playoff team. Now, his play could get better once there is a solid RT next to him, or not. average starter that needs upgrading. graded in the red against the Patriots (-2.1)

 

Left guard Colin Brown graded (-30.1),and his back up Sam Young were both disasters. Both were cut after week 6, and replaced by the backup center. Doug Legursky finished that Patriot game (-2.1), and graded (-8.1) for the year. This position needs a serious upgrade!

 

Right Tackle Erik Pears graded (-2.5) against the Patriots. Like Urbik played well in some games, and in others fell on his face. This type of play can't be happening with a good team. needs a replacement.

 

If you look at the stats for all those running plays they ran 70% of the time at mid guard. Meaning that even as good as Glenn was at pass blocking, his run blocking left much to be desired.

 

 

Should the Bills draft an OT at the #9 spot. I would think that they would start him at RT, and see how he develops. Taylor Lewan would be a perfect replacement for Pears at RT. Greg Robinson, and Jake Matthews who are both slated to start at LT might fall to Buffalo too. Wouldn't it be nice to have solid starters, and some decent depth?