JPS Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Lazy thinking….too much thinking if you ask me ( I know you didn't). I know what I saw. No doubt the Bills QB play hurt more than any other factor. But I never had the feeling that the Bills could run the ball consistently to get a 1st down, get a touchdown or win a game. I think the stats are what losers point to to feel good about something. I do it too. But I'm sick of justifying anything this team does until it ends up in a win. The bottom line is this offense did not get it done in 2013 and it wasn't just the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ok then what should they do at 9? WR? TE? LB? OT will play day one and will be an upgrade day one. Ebron would be an upgrade and start. No guarantee another WR would beat out Woors/Johnson. They will not draft another QB at #9. Ebron. There is no single O-lineman who will make a noticeable impact. Lazy thinking….too much thinking if you ask me ( I know you didn't). I know what I saw. No doubt the Bills QB play hurt more than any other factor. But I never had the feeling that the Bills could run the ball consistently to get a 1st down, get a touchdown or win a game. I think the stats are what losers point to to feel good about something. I do it too. But I'm sick of justifying anything this team does until it ends up in a win. The bottom line is this offense did not get it done in 2013 and it wasn't just the QB. This is what 100% of people say when their only argument is "it doesn't matter what the numbers say--I know what I saw". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ebron. There is no single O-lineman who will make a noticeable impact. This is what 100% of people say when their only argument is "it doesn't matter what the numbers say--I know what I saw". 6-10. They had a 6-10 running game. That's what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 6-10. They had a 6-10 running game. That's what I saw. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 6-10. They had a 6-10 running game. That's what I saw. I saw a 2-14 passing game carried by an 11-5 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Here's the thing the Bills are not as talented as the top teams but even as that is true it is also true that there were wins all around that we didn't get either through bad luck, or stupid decisions, if Stevie Johnson hadn't been injured most of the year we could have had an extra win, ditto with CBs, RBs, and EJ Not having Byrd probably cost us a win, and Collin Brown instead of Levitre probably cost us two wins, Collin Brown instead of Legursky probably cost us a win and playing in Toronto may not have cost us a win it certainty didn't help. maybe the above is exaggerated but I do think the Bills have suffered the twin curses of both dumb personnel decisions and bad luck and as bad as the Bills have been talent wise during this playoff drought I think that there were at least 3 or 4 teams that looked wild-card ready before injuries piled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Bills ran well but situationally they sucked. They had a hard time getting critical yards in short yardage situations. They need to be able to win the battles at the line on those plays - the way NE, SF, SEA do - to be able to compete in the AFC East. Again the onus is on the QB. If opponents are not worried about our QB completing a 3rd down pass, they WILL stack up the line to stop the run and getting the first down. Until our QBs show the panache to beat coverage and get the first down, the result will show us sucking at the situational run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Helping the defense helps EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't think there is any question that the Bills can only take that step from 6-10 / 7-9 territory to 9-7 / 10-6 territory if they get more out of the quarterback position. And more means two things.... 1) it means EJ staying healthy for the entire season. 2) it means him being more consistent. If he played at the level of his best games in year 1 in say 10/12 of the games in year 2 that would give us a chance of making the post season and I think is a realistic progression. I'm not expecting to see EJ morph into Peyton Manning just a nice solid season of progression would be good. However, I think everyone here accepts EJ has to get better to give us a chance to win enough games. The thread is about how do you help him get better. Personally I think another top talent on our O-Line does help him, because going back to point 1 above... him getting hit less increases the chances of him staying healthy. Equally on the O-Line I think that too often we ran for short yardage or lost yardage on first down with CJ in the backfield where our line was blown up before the back had a realistic chance. It is those plays that I think hurt you because then your rookie QB finds himself in 2nd long too often. I think a top tight end would help him too. I haven't seen enough of Ebron to know if he is that guy... I'm personally a bit dubious about picking a tight end at 9... everyone talks about having a Gronkowski or Graham style game changer, but there are a lot more Gresham and Pettigrew types out there and if we gave up a top 10 pick for somone with that level of production I'd be pretty miffed. If we traded back a few spots I'd be more comfortable with a tight end knowing that we still had (hopefully in my trade scenario) a couple of 2nd rounders to use on O-Line and Linebacker. I think they are the three priority positions that we need to upgrade aside from better Quarterback play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I saw a 2-14 passing game carried by an 11-5 defense. I get your point, but that 11-5 defense was gashed by the likes of Geno Smith, Brandon Weeden and the great Bobby Rainey. The defense was inconsistent and overall decent. But I guess that looks like 11-5 after what we've been looking at the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno999 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Bills need to upgrade the O line. Not saying they need to spend a 1st round pick but they need a RT and a LG. The Bills really struggled in the red zone scoring touchdowns. While they need a playmaker WR and a TE, they need lineman who can control the line and create creases for the running game. The Bills simply settled for too many field goals last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Bills need to upgrade the O line. Not saying they need to spend a 1st round pick but they need a RT and a LG. The Bills really struggled in the red zone scoring touchdowns. While they need a playmaker WR and a TE, they need lineman who can control the line and create creases for the running game. The Bills simply settled for too many field goals last year. I half agree with that...they absolutely need to do better in the red zone. I think most folks agree on LG--and that RT could be improved for that matter. I personally think that the red zone struggles point more toward QB play (like most everything else on offense) and lack of the big red zone target the team needs moreso than the OL. Part of the inefficiency in the red zone is that the team didn't put a lot of faith in the QBs with regard to play calling inside the 20...other teams obviously saw it (as they should) and loaded up against the run. Your observations are correct; I think most of us agree that the shortest way home is for the QB to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Bills need to upgrade the O line. Not saying they need to spend a 1st round pick but they need a RT and a LG. The Bills really struggled in the red zone scoring touchdowns. While they need a playmaker WR and a TE, they need lineman who can control the line and create creases for the running game. The Bills simply settled for too many field goals last year. That's pretty well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Helping the defense helps EJ. I agree red but Eric Ebron would help the Offense How long has it been since the Bills had an above average TE? way to long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I agree red but Eric Ebron would help the Offense How long has it been since the Bills had an above average TE? way to long... 20 years? Riemersma was borderline above-average. Generally average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Some of the folks posting in this thread are conveniently forgetting what the O line looked like against the NY Jets in that first game in week three. EJ sacked 8 times for -35 yards. Spiller held to 9 yards on 10 carries. Forgetting what they looked like against the Saints in week 8. They were blown out in a 17-35 loss. Lewis sacked 4 times. Fred Jackson 15 rushes for 45 yards. Forgetting what they looked like against the Steelers in week 10. They were dominated at the LoS by a 3-6 team. Pittsburgh held them to 3 points for most of the game, and they finally scored at TD with 5 seconds on the clock. Forgetting what they looked like against the Buccaneers in week 14. They were dominated by that Buc's D at the LoS by a 4-9 team. EJ sacked 7 times. Fred Jackson 5 rushes for 12 yards- Spiller 11 rushes for 22 Forgetting that 3 of the 5 players on that O line graded in the red against their biggest rival. The New England Patriots. This is huge in my view, as how can this team ever win the division is they can't play well against their biggest division rival? The best way for the QB to improve and eventually develop into a top QB is to give him the very best protection that you can. Give him a run game that doesn't only make big run now and again, and put up good numbers at the end of the year. Give him a run game that can actually control the LoS, and clock. While giving him the time in the pocket to complete the deeper throws. What good are TJ Graham's, Marquise Goodwin's deep speed if the QB doesn't have the time to always get him the ball? I don't see any Bills QB developing into a better QB if that line stays with the status quo, I don't see them winning many games either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 FTL, even as an avowed EJ supporter and believer, I did see the line holding up at the point of attack, and EJ being a bit afraid to pull the trigger. The line had bad games, and EJ had some very bad rookie games. They failed as a unit. Aside from upgrading talent, I think the following things would help: some focus on his footwork this offseason, perhaps more work under center than shotgun, and they need some more play action pass happening in this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Bills ran well but situationally they sucked. They had a hard time getting critical yards in short yardage situations. They need to be able to win the battles at the line on those plays - the way NE, SF, SEA do - to be able to compete in the AFC East. And they could not punch the ball into the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I get your point, but that 11-5 defense was gashed by the likes of Geno Smith, Brandon Weeden and the great Bobby Rainey. The defense was inconsistent and overall decent. But I guess that looks like 11-5 after what we've been looking at the past few years. Top 10. Weeden completed 13 passes for 197 yards. Not exactly lighting us up. We picked Geno off twice that other game. Like I said, 11-5. Not 16-0, 11-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) FTL, even as an avowed EJ supporter and believer, I did see the line holding up at the point of attack, and EJ being a bit afraid to pull the trigger. The line had bad games, and EJ had some very bad rookie games. They failed as a unit. Aside from upgrading talent, I think the following things would help: some focus on his footwork this offseason, perhaps more work under center than shotgun, and they need some more play action pass happening in this offense. In those games I mentioned above the Bills couldn't pass or run very well with any QB behind center, as it wasn't just EJ looking playing bad. What happened was the team came out trying to run the ball, and when that failed miserably. They then put the onus on the QB to make plays. Sometimes EJ managed to make plays, and sometimes he didn't. My point here is that if the Bills had been able run the ball well enough the first few plays, and to gain a first down or get to a third and short situation. That it would then allow the passing offense an easier way to open up, and thus making life for the Bills QB so much easier. They were #2 in rushing because they ran so much. Going by average (4.2 YPC), they were tied for 14th with 2 other teams, essentially meaning they were smack dab in the middle of the league. And I read a stat where the Bills gained the fewest yards on 1st down, putting them in much worse 2nd and 3rd down situations. Personally I'd like to see the OL upgraded via FA. I think Pears is a goner and Legursky stays as a backup. The Bills were one of the very worst teams in the NFL in ball control. 25th in three and out percentage. 29th in 3rd down efficiency. 31st in first down efficiency. What wins games is being able to control the line of scrimmage and control the clock with the offense in both passing and running. The Bills were one of the worst teams in the NFL in that regard as they were #28th in the league in sustaining drives. 214 drives, and 53 were 3 downs and out. The Bills were also 29th in 3rd down efficiency, and most importantly in my view they were 30th in sustaining drives of more then 5 minutes, as they only had 10 all season. EDIT: Believe whomever, whatever you want. Just realize this, that the Bills have been losing and out of the playoffs for 14 years. They last made the playoffs with Doug Flutie / Rob Johnson at QB, and between the two of them had only two NFL season where they made the playoffs in 1998-1999. I firmly believe there is a correlation between having bad O lines the last 14 years, and not winning many games. Which is also something that has not allowed any Bills QB to be successful during all that time. Edited February 13, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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