The Big Cat Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I disagree as I don't think u need to open up the playbook in order to find ways to get ur best offensive player the ball in better situations The amount of the playbook that was used doesn't change who was calling the plays either as Hackett made a lot of bad calls and didn't seem to consider down and and distance most of the time Then I'll ask again: what did Gailey do so differently that Hackett proved capable but unwilling to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) demand a power running game.difference. Chan was finesse And it is Marrone who wishes it , i suspect . Execution . Uncle Flap sir, you have great insight and compassion. Probably more assets beyond those two too. Nathaniel did a very reasonable to very good job . Edited January 9, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 demand a power running game.difference. Chan was finesse And it is Marrone who wishes it , i suspect . Execution . Uncle Flap sir, you have great insight and compassion. Probably more assets beyond those two too. Nathaniel did a very reasonable to very good job . Thank you for the kind words! I think that some of what we saw (wrt an emphasis on power runs) was designed to bring EJ along slowly as it was no secret since before he was even drafted that he is a "project." Hopefully next year we can watch a healthy EJ and CJ all year and also enjoy a clear progression as the season unfolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thank you for the kind words! I think that some of what we saw (wrt an emphasis on power runs) was designed to bring EJ along slowly as it was no secret since before he was even drafted that he is a "project." Hopefully next year we can watch a healthy EJ and CJ all year and also enjoy a clear progression as the season unfolds. yeppers !! I concur with your opinion stated above. I suspect this particular combination of Coaches , Coordinators and Players will settle down during the offseason and gather their proverbial wits about them . These guys are not dumb dumbs. These are some smart sumbitches actually. Contrary to some opinions. a couple tweaks and alot of effort. Bills might surprise . Let the stars align football gods. Its about to be Bills time !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 To the OP: I'm not sure I'd give credit that 3 raw inexperienced QBs looked about the same to their coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Over and over again I see people talking about how Gailey did so much better with lesser talent. Gailey knew how to put together the pieces of a team he spent seasons developing. We have lost a few players - Fitz, Levitre and D. Nelson but added Goodwin, Woods and Manuel to elevate the roster. I do not hold Hackett accountable for our offensive play in 2013 but I hold him accountable for what he repeated week in and week out and that was not adapting or fixing the offense. Gailey did not do this either and he did not have to. His offense was faster and more unpredictable then the 2013 model. Fitz was a major reason for that - he would look all around the field and was really a mover and shaker even if he threw picks and caused a lot of bad plays. Sisyphean had a good point that we did not get to see much out of from Gailey. 3 QB's all turned in similar performances. Gailey only had Fitz for most of his career and when he had Edwards we really saw how poorly the wrong QB was in that system and I imagine we would not have seen consistent turn outs for a different QB then we already had. Gailey's offense relied upon Fitzpatrick and few QB's have what he does/did. Granted, he is average but he plays very smart football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Over and over again I see people talking about how Gailey did so much better with lesser talent. Gailey knew how to put together the pieces of a team he spent seasons developing. We have lost a few players - Fitz, Levitre and D. Nelson but added Goodwin, Woods and Manuel to elevate the roster. I do not hold Hackett accountable for our offensive play in 2013 but I hold him accountable for what he repeated week in and week out and that was not adapting or fixing the offense. Gailey did not do this either and he did not have to. His offense was faster and more unpredictable then the 2013 model. Fitz was a major reason for that - he would look all around the field and was really a mover and shaker even if he threw picks and caused a lot of bad plays. Sisyphean had a good point that we did not get to see much out of from Gailey. 3 QB's all turned in similar performances. Gailey only had Fitz for most of his career and when he had Edwards we really saw how poorly the wrong QB was in that system and I imagine we would not have seen consistent turn outs for a different QB then we already had. Gailey's offense relied upon Fitzpatrick and few QB's have what he does/did. Granted, he is average but he plays very smart football. Folks also seem to remember fondly the offensive wunderkinder whose Bills tenure began with a record of 0-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Following the season, I wasn't happy with the offensive production. It makes you wonder if the issue is the players or the scheme. Whoever made the decision to keep Graham on the field over the other guys should have their head examined. He's easily the worst "one of the very fastest" guys the Bills have ever had. EASILY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The problem is CJ, LG, RG and the lack of a TE. EJ and Hackett will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Whoever made the decision to keep Graham on the field over the other guys should have their head examined. He's easily the worst "one of the very fastest" guys the Bills have ever had. EASILY. Hilliard, Ike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv Levy Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 His predictable play calling in the red zone and goal line opportunities were horrendous. Hardly ever used an effective screen pass for CJ and the lack of deep ball throws was unacceptable. I give him a D- and welcome a new OC in the offseason ( even though it won't happen). This team also needs a HUGE upgrade at WR. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Hilliard, Ike? OK, I can buy that to a point- he wasn't panning out and Hilliard wasn't getting anywhere. However, in a game where we were riding a winning streak in New England, he is STILL out there, and I don't care if he caught a TD, so what? Hilliard is not deciding which WR is starting where, and with the horrible season he has had and the lack of progress he has shown, I'd rather see ANYONE else out there but him. If he was a special teams ace like Parrish, that's awesome, keep him there, but he is NOT, and a waste of a roster spot. Hackett and Marrone MUST accept the fact he is not panning out and act accordingly with Whaley to address it. Edited January 11, 2014 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I know it's been popular to bash the man, but I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt going forward. No, our offense wasn't dominant, but given what he had to work with I'd say he got respectable production out of them. Not only did he have a rookie QB with rookie WRs in Woods and Goodwin, and a 2nd yr project in TJ Graham, he managed an offense that ranked 19th in the league. And let's not forget, he's a rookie himself. What's impressive to me is that there was very little drop off when Tuel and Lewis took over at QB. I'm sure some will argue that he had 2 great RBs to carry the team, but I keep hearing how bad CJ sucks (which is weird to me b/c I think he's exceptional). I'm excited to see what he'll do next year with an offensive unit that has a year of experience playing together in his system. Like I posted in another thread Marrone/Hackett managed 1040 LESS yards and 9 LESS TD's from our two best Offensive skill players combined...Now...I understand injuries/missed time from Spiller and Stevie was a factor...But I think that's a pretty staggering statistic...And not in a good way... Edited January 11, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Like I posted in another thread Marrone/Hackett managed 1040 LESS yards and 9 LESS TD's from our two best Offensive skill players combined...Now...I understand injuries/missed time from Spiller and Stevie was a factor...But I think that's a pretty staggering statistic...And not in a good way... I'm not big on cherry picking stats. If you look at overall offense from 2012-2013 the statistics are almost identical from the previous year despite losing Andy Cialis and running the rookie quarterback carousel this year. RK TEAM YDS YDS/G PASS P YDS/G RUSH R YDS/G PTS PTS/G 2012 19 Buffalo 5486 342.9 3269 204.3 2217 138.6 344 21.5 2013 19 Buffalo 5410 338.1 3103 193.9 2307 144.2 339 21.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'm not big on cherry picking stats. If you look at overall offense from 2012-2013 the statistics are almost identical from the previous year despite losing Andy Cialis and running the rookie quarterback carousel this year. RK TEAM YDS YDS/G PASS P YDS/G RUSH R YDS/G PTS PTS/G 2012 19 Buffalo 5486 342.9 3269 204.3 2217 138.6 344 21.5 2013 19 Buffalo 5410 338.1 3103 193.9 2307 144.2 339 21.2 But the Offense was supposed to get better right? Not the same or worse...Call it cherry picking if you like, but similar production from Stevie and CJ in 2013 and the Offense is better than it was in 2012...I'm certain Hackett would have told anyone before the season that he would be disappointed if he got 1000 less yards combined by those 2...They are supposed to be the #1 RB and the #1 WR without question... In Hackett's defense it is almost a miracle they produced as well as they did on offense with the drop-off from those two...I'll give him that much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 6-10...last in the division....again! Hackett was extremely lucky he had such top quality RB's in Freddy & CJ to help carry him. Where was the innovation? where was getting CJ into space? where was protecting all the rookie QB's and limiting their throws? The Bills threw the ball more this year with a bunch of rookies at QB, more then even Gailey did last season with Fitz. All I saw was Freddy & CJ up mid guard 70% of the time, and when that failed to work for yards. Then the entire game went right on that rookie QB's shoulders to make plays. When the QB also failed, it was then a complete disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 But the Offense was supposed to get better right? Not the same or worse...Call it cherry picking if you like, but similar production from Stevie and CJ in 2013 and the Offense is better than it was in 2012...I'm certain Hackett would have told anyone before the season that he would be disappointed if he got 1000 less yards combined by those 2...They are supposed to be the #1 RB and the #1 WR without question... In Hackett's defense it is almost a miracle they produced as well as they did on offense with the drop-off from those two...I'll give him that much... Nobody in their right mind expected the offense to get better with Fitz/Gailey gone and rookies at OC and QB. Nobody. Also, way to cherry pick cumulative stats for Stevie-12 games-Johnson and CJ-came out of and/or missed no less than three games--Spiller. 6-10...last in the division....again! Hackett was extremely lucky he had such top quality RB's in Freddy & CJ to help carry him. Where was the innovation? where was getting CJ into space? where was protecting all the rookie QB's and limiting their throws? The Bills threw the ball more this year with a bunch of rookies at QB, more then even Gailey did last season with Fitz. All I saw was Freddy & CJ up mid guard 70% of the time, and when that failed to work for yards. Then the entire game went right on that rookie QB's shoulders to make plays. When the QB also failed, it was then a complete disaster. Fine, I'll ask again: what did Chan do to get CJ in space? Everyone seems to think this is some magical, no fail panacea. So pray tell what DIDN'T Hackett do to make this happen that Chan did, without fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Fine, I'll ask again: what did Chan do to get CJ in space? Everyone seems to think this is some magical, no fail panacea. So pray tell what DIDN'T Hackett do to make this happen that Chan did, without fail? Chan didn't do anything other than run a spread offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Chan didn't do anything other than run a spread offense. Which, as I recall, was universally loved among Bills fans--particularly the volume of touches CJ got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Which, as I recall, was universally loved among Bills fans--particularly the volume of touches CJ got. Fans had a problem with the play calls and the lack of touches called by Gailey, and not the spread offense. Edited January 12, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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