DanInUticaTampa Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 A real QB coach should be hired by the Bills if they wish to get the most out of Manuel. I very much agree with this, and I think this might be the best hope we have of coaching improvement. I find it hard to believe that Hackett with be let go, but having a real QB coach would free up hackett more (maybe improve hackett) and give EJ the attention he needs to develop. I think it is crazy to have Hackett as OC and QB coach when it is a rookie QB we are dealing with. If it was Tom Brady, ok, save the personel I guess for another position. But this makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Can someone explain the zip/loft numbers on that screen pass that he missed by a mile ? I think the zip overloaded a bit there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Buffalo Feet Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Sounds as if most of us are seeing the same thing. At the beginning of the game I was thinking we are really gonna have to draft another QB. Then even when EJ started hitting on some passes I thought the same thing about the lofting. It seems he's trying way to hard not to miss the receivers and in return is aiming his passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 EJ is frustrating to watch at this point. I doubt he will get any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Because when he zips it the ball seems to hit the recievers in the head or go thru their hands. I guess we have all noticed the loft vs zip thing...but did anyone else notice (IIRC) the first drive or two of the second half against the Bucs? He came out, it seemed, consciously "zipping" the ball, and completed some nice passes in the middle of the field in tight coverage...but then he tried to "zip" one in the center of the field, and the receiver (can't remember who it was now) was just a little ahead of the pass, and it got picked off. It seemed obvious to me, somebody was in his ear about making more decisive throws. I know, everyone is down on this kid right now, and who knows, maybe you are all right..but by my count, EJ has now played approx 38.5 qrtrs of NFL football...he has been very, very good in about 6 of them, decent in about 18 of them, and not so hot in about 14 of them. It seems like people are drawing lines in the sand about him pretty quick. If we were being honest with ourselves, I think most of us knew it was going to be an up and down year for him...but now, even when he plays pretty well, it isn't good enough for some...let him grow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I very much agree with this, and I think this might be the best hope we have of coaching improvement. I find it hard to believe that Hackett with be let go, but having a real QB coach would free up hackett more (maybe improve hackett) and give EJ the attention he needs to develop. I think it is crazy to have Hackett as OC and QB coach when it is a rookie QB we are dealing with. If it was Tom Brady, ok, save the personel I guess for another position. But this makes no sense. I agree with this. There are times when I have been frustrated with Hacketts pattern of obvious runs, but as bad as I might think play calling has been, I think he did a great job when Lewis and Tuel were starting. He seemed to call a game that played to their strengths as much he could...so maybe the bad play calling that we (or some) perceive when EJ is in there, is the product of EJ. He is really raw, and he does need to improve his mechanics.... would love to see them get a mentor for EJ. This hasn't proven to be a success in the past (Wyche, Schonert, Lee, etc) but they have a lot of their hopes invested in Manuel, why cut corners here? Hackett is very young, perhaps he could learn a thing or two as well, great coaching lineage and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 EJ is frustrating to watch at this point. I doubt he will get any better. He has been pretty good when he has been good, and very bad when he has been bad. Sounds to me like a rookie QB on a bad to mediocre team. He has a rookie HC, a rookie OC with no NFL experience, and a very shaky offensive line, IMO. Give him some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Some routes require lofting the ball in over the defender and having the ability to make the throw accurately is a plus. Edited December 17, 2013 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 EJ is frustrating to watch at this point. I doubt he will get any better. You're right. You'd think that after 20 regular season starts he'd have a handle on this. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 EJ is frustrating to watch at this point. I doubt he will get any better. EJ is frustrating to watch at this point. I expect he will settle down and get the hang of this stuff. Decipher the right times to zip , fling , toss , chuck , hurl and throw. He has been trying to finesse his play. Protect the ball. I think after those 4 ints , i think he can just settle down. He can create plenty of zip and has the long arm. Does he need to work on his feet of course. it will come in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 This is what I've noticed also. When he does put some zip on it, it seems to surprise our WRs more often than not. That's because he usually only does it when they are five yards away. He is inherently inaccurate. He can make routine throws at times. Occasionally he makes even routine throws look more difficult than they are. He cannot make difficult throws at all, let alone consistently. He is a sloppy QB. Execution at that position in the NFL needs to be demonstrably, reliably and consistently crisp. An NFL QB needs to look like he was born to throw a football. EJ has never looked like that to me and odds are he never will because you cannot "learn" to throw a football. You either have that or you don't. It's a lot like Tebow actually, though probably not as bad. Still, not good enuf I'm afraid. And I actually really do hope I'm 100% wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) That's because he usually only does it when they are five yards away. He is inherently inaccurate. He can make routine throws at times. Occasionally he makes even routine throws look more difficult than they are. He cannot make difficult throws at all, let alone consistently. He is a sloppy QB. Execution at that position in the NFL needs to be demonstrably, reliably and consistently crisp. An NFL QB needs to look like he was born to throw a football. EJ has never looked like that to me and odds are he never will because you cannot "learn" to throw a football. You either have that or you don't. It's a lot like Tebow actually, though probably not as bad. Still, not good enuf I'm afraid. And I actually really do hope I'm 100% wrong. When people say things like that, they usually mean the opposite! Edited December 17, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 When people say things like that, they usually mean the opposite! You may be right about that, but I really do want him to succeed. Generally I like to see people succeed, and whether they play for the Bills or another team. What do I know about evaluating players. Probably precious little. So I certainly could be wrong. And I do certainly hope I am wrong. He looks to be a great kid and I would like for nothing more than to see him succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I guess we have all noticed the loft vs zip thing...but did anyone else notice (IIRC) the first drive or two of the second half against the Bucs? He came out, it seemed, consciously "zipping" the ball, and completed some nice passes in the middle of the field in tight coverage...but then he tried to "zip" one in the center of the field, and the receiver (can't remember who it was now) was just a little ahead of the pass, and it got picked off. It seemed obvious to me, somebody was in his ear about making more decisive throws. I know, everyone is down on this kid right now, and who knows, maybe you are all right..but by my count, EJ has now played approx 38.5 qrtrs of NFL football...he has been very, very good in about 6 of them, decent in about 18 of them, and not so hot in about 14 of them. It seems like people are drawing lines in the sand about him pretty quick. If we were being honest with ourselves, I think most of us knew it was going to be an up and down year for him...but now, even when he plays pretty well, it isn't good enough for some...let him grow... I'm really rooting for EJ to succeed but I think Jeff Tuel (as much as i ripped on him) would probably have equal if not better stats in the same 38.5 Qtrs. EJ has got to relax and start playing confidently. He can't aim the ball and be successful. QB's have to get in the flow and play some ball. It's not about being a robot out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It seems like people are drawing lines in the sand about him pretty quick. It's what we do. My mental image of Jim Kelly in the pocket is him waiting for a play to develop, with his right and left shoulders in a straight line, aimed at where the ball was headed. Rarely do I see EJ in this position when he's getting ready to throw. I don't pretend to be a QB coach but I see most of EJ's throws coming with his hips and shoulders open, meaning his throws are "all arm". He's strong enough to get away with that most of the time, but it's not ideal by any means. I don't think it's right to assume that a rookie QB can come into his first NFL season having mastered a new playbook AND cleaned up his mechanics. With the playbook now down, he can work on his mechanics in the offseason. I see him as trending upward and I think he'll be better next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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