B-Man Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Instead of focusing on the misinterpretation of those on the Left and the Right, we should instead read Pope Francis's words ourselves and reflect on his call for the end of poverty. Here is an article from Catholic Online Pope Francis renews plea to help the world's poor LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - On Friday, Pope Francis called for the United Nations to perform a "worldwide ethical mobilization" that would address the plight of the poor. Pope Francis has frequently criticized the abuses of capitalism where a greedy few view men as made for the market as opposed to the market being made for man. Several previous popes have made similar pleas, particularly in capitalist economies where wealth flourishes, but tends to pool amongst a privileged few. None of this is to say that other forms of government or economic systems have their ills, for each one has peculiar flaws, however Pope Francis stressed the role governments should play in reducing poverty and hunger. Pope Francis used the word "redistribution" in his speech, however he was not referring to the communist interpretation of the word where the rich are punitively soaked to finance the poor. Instead, Pope Francis was speaking of a fair redistribution where the wealthy recognize that they enjoy wealth produced by the labor of the poor, and those who labor and those in need should enjoy a reasonable share of that wealth. He also spoke about how important it was to address the roots of poverty and hunger which includes caring for the environment and respecting labor and the dignity of the human person. "Specifically, this involves challenging all forms of injustices and resisting the economy of exclusion, the throwaway culture and the culture of death which nowadays sadly risk becoming passively accepted," he said. Below please find the full text of Pope Francis' address to the UN delegation..........(At the Link) http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=55342 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) birdog: Rush Limbaugh gets paid very well to rabble rouse and draw ratings. Everything he says should be viewed through that lens. He does not speak for anyone but Rush Limbaugh's wallet. Are you somehow unfamiliar with punditry? Edited May 12, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Instead of focusing on the misinterpretation of those on the Left and the Right, we should instead read Pope Francis's words ourselves and reflect on his call for the end of poverty. Here is an article from Catholic Online Pope Francis renews plea to help the world's poor LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - On Friday, Pope Francis called for the United Nations to perform a "worldwide ethical mobilization" that would address the plight of the poor. Pope Francis has frequently criticized the abuses of capitalism where a greedy few view men as made for the market as opposed to the market being made for man. Several previous popes have made similar pleas, particularly in capitalist economies where wealth flourishes, but tends to pool amongst a privileged few. None of this is to say that other forms of government or economic systems have their ills, for each one has peculiar flaws, however Pope Francis stressed the role governments should play in reducing poverty and hunger. Pope Francis used the word "redistribution" in his speech, however he was not referring to the communist interpretation of the word where the rich are punitively soaked to finance the poor. Instead, Pope Francis was speaking of a fair redistribution where the wealthy recognize that they enjoy wealth produced by the labor of the poor, and those who labor and those in need should enjoy a reasonable share of that wealthHe also spoke about how important it was to address the roots of poverty and hunger which includes caring for the environment and respecting labor and the dignity of the human person. "Specifically, this involves challenging all forms of injustices and resisting the economy of exclusion, the throwaway culture and the culture of death which nowadays sadly risk becoming passively accepted," he said. Below please find the full text of Pope Francis' address to the UN delegation..........(At the Link) http://www.catholic....ry.php?id=55342 it's amazing how often francis' simple words need to be interpreted by the conservative press. i don't see the liberal press reinterpreting his words on issues like abortion. at any rate, the goals in this interpretation seem reasonable and in keeping with the actual words used by the pope. the question then becomes "by what mechanism is this particular form of redistribution therefore achieved?" at a minimum, it must include a living wage for workers. after that, you're looking at the necessity to alter capitalism as we know it as it's natural consequence is the concentration of wealth. the experiment has been done rpeatedly and the results are always the same. in fact, amazingly there's this best selling book about it that came out recently and it's most important (indeed, the only) proposed remedy is taxing the rich more. Edited May 12, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 it's amazing how often francis' simple words need to be interpreted by the conservative press. i don't see the liberal press reinterpreting his words on issues like abortion. at any rate, the goals in this interpretation seem reasonable and in keeping with the actual words used by the pope. the question then becomes "by what mechanism is this particular form of redistribution therefore achieved?" at a minimum, it must include a living wage for workers. after that, you're looking at the necessity to alter capitalism as we know it as it's natural consequence is the concentration of wealth. the experiment has been done rpeatedly and the results are always the same. in fact, amazingly there's this best selling book about it that came out recently and it's most important (indeed, the only) proposed remedy is taxing the rich more. Again, we don't have a capitalist system; and further, you know this already. We have a neo-mercantilist/corporotist system driven and protected by regulation, tarrif, tax-payer subsidy, and the central banking fractional reserve system. It's anything but free market based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Again, we don't have a capitalist system; and further, you know this already. We have a neo-mercantilist/corporotist system driven and protected by regulation, tarrif, tax-payer subsidy, and the central banking fractional reserve system. It's anything but free market based. however you want to label it, it leads to concentration of wealth by design. it's done a magnificent job and will continue to until some external force is applied or there are internal changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 however you want to label it, it leads to concentration of wealth by design. it's done a magnificent job and will continue to until some external force is applied or there are internal changes. No, it's not an "however you want to label it" situation. I am using the correct language, since you've made the language relevant as an improper attack on capitalism. The Pope, and Church, have always been consistent in their praise of freedom, and condemnation of socialism as evil. It requires an impressive bout of mental gymnastics to discard this well documented history in favor of a 180 degree departure from freedom, in favor of a socialism and coercion of state so recently decried as an abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) No, it's not an "however you want to label it" situation. I am using the correct language, since you've made the language relevant as an improper attack on capitalism. The Pope, and Church, have always been consistent in their praise of freedom, and condemnation of socialism as evil. It requires an impressive bout of mental gymnastics to discard this well documented history in favor of a 180 degree departure from freedom, in favor of a socialism and coercion of state so recently decried as an abomination. i didn't use the word socialism. nor did he. you likely see any country with single payor gov't healthcare as a socialism. i don't. i don't believe the church does either. was the US a socialist country when we taxed the wealthy at very high levels after WW2? i don't think so. you probably do. he may well have a different definition of socialism than you or limbaugh who goes as far as calling him a marxist repeatedly. so what mechanisms do you think he has in mind for nations to redistribute wealth and to help the poor? he's already condemned "trickle down economics". perhaps he limits his opposition to that particular tenet. fine with me. it's a good start. how bout we agree to this: he desires to see alterations to systems that lead to massive wealth inequality and poverty. Edited May 12, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 i didn't use the word socialism. nor did he. you likely see any country with single payor gov't healthcare as a socialism. i don't. i don't believe the church does either. was the US a socialist country when we taxed the wealthy at very high levels after WW2? i don't think so. you probably do. he may well have a different definition of socialism than you or limbaugh who goes as far as calling him a marxist repeatedly. so what mechanisms do you think he has in mind for nations to redistribute wealth and to help the poor? he's already condemned "trickle down economics". perhaps he limits his opposition to that particular tenet. fine with me. it's a good start. how bout we agree to this: he desires to see alterations to systems that lead to massive wealth inequality and poverty. "Trickle down economics" are not an economic theory, they term was coined in derision of the idea that the rich should be given preferential treatment in regards to taxes and economic policy in hopes that they will make more money, and that in making more, they will spend more, and it will trickle down to the rest of us. "Trick down economics" have nothing at all to do with free markets, or capitalism. They are about cartels, and banks that dictate rather than serve. That's what the Pope spoke too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 "Trickle down economics" are not an economic theory, they term was coined in derision of the idea that the rich should be given preferential treatment in regards to taxes and economic policy in hopes that they will make more money, and that in making more, they will spend more, and it will trickle down to the rest of us. "Trick down economics" have nothing at all to do with free markets, or capitalism. They are about cartels, and banks that dictate rather than serve. That's what the Pope spoke too. rubbish. he spoke to massive economic inequality. you're the first that i've seen try to apologize for his trickle down statement by invoking cartels. ridiculous. i'm confident he meant the term in its commonly understood meaning which certainly is derisive. he speaks plainly. it's not code. stop being ridiculous. wjhile it suits you, it's annoying. back to ignore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) rubbish. Poppycock. he spoke to massive economic inequality. Indeed, yet he did not make any of the other claims you are attributing to him. He condemned the current system, which is not even remotely capitalist. Capitalism is economic freedom, under which all are treated equally. It does not concentrate wealth, save by raw merit, and even then does not do so systemically. What he condemned, quite explicitly, is the global banking system (which is a cartel), and the political neo-mercantilist system, which works to protect the entrenched from market forces, isolate the overwhelming majority of the Earth's population from capital formation, and subsidizes both with the dollars of labor, and on the backs of the impoverished. you're the first that i've seen try to apologize for his trickle down statement by invoking cartels. ridiculous. i'm confident he meant the term in its commonly understood meaning which certainly is derisive. he speaks plainly. it's not code. stop being ridiculous. wjhile it suits you, it's annoying. back to ignore... It's not my fault that you've ghettoized your mind to the point that you won't read anything that doesn't immediately report to your confirmation biases, nor is it my fault that you don't know what cartels are. What you've essentially said here, is that the Pope is a fool who either doesn't choose his words well, or doesn't know what the words he uses mean; meanwhile Rush Limbaugh is a genius who has divined the Pope's actual meaning, even though the Pope communicates poorly, because he doesn't understand what he's talking about. One of us has interpreted the Pope's words as consistent with the history of the Church. The other has named him a Marxist. Funny how two devout retards, Limbaugh and yourself, have come to the exact same conclusion. Color me unsurprised, and even less impressed. Edited May 13, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 What does he think of solar power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 What does he think of solar power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 What does he think of solar power? Rooftop or utility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 What does he think of solar power? isn't the sun one-third of the trinity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 One of us has interpreted the Pope's words as consistent with the history of the Church. The other has named him a Marxist. Funny how two devout retards, Limbaugh and yourself, have come to the exact same conclusion. Color me unsurprised, and even less impressed. You owe me a new keyboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) “Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world,” Francis wrote in the papal statement. “This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naive trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.” “Meanwhile,” he added, “the excluded are still waiting.” sounds like the commonly understood"trickle down" to me. not a hint of cartels. Edited May 13, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Rooftop or utility? Scoreboard Edited May 13, 2014 by meazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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