MDH Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Do you know where to find our TO's per drive for 2011? http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsdef2011 Bills had a TO per drive of .158, good for 5th in the league in 2011. While that number is good they were horrible in virtually every other category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarwellGardner Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 So still better overall record than the Bills? An argument like this is difficult to numbers that aren't skewed for different reasons. The Giants could have forced 3 takeaways a game this season, and Eli could've thrown 4 picks and still have a losing record. Let me just say this... consider my comments for a moment before replying and then please respond accordingly... It seems to me, not knowing you personally or regularly following your posts on this board, that you, my friend, have fallen victim to the illness that plagues many of our beloved fanbase. You have contracted the dreaded disease commonly referred to in the Buffalo area as "Chronic Buffalonian Pessimism"... It's a horrible condition that is believed to have originated in the Orchard Park area of the city through the late 90's and early 2000's. If this is the case, regretfully, the prognosis for you is not good... but it is curable. The first step is admitting that there is a problem - not with the team (we already all know that...) the problem lies within you... Just to be certain, please respond to the following questions: - do you sleep well on nights before Bills games? - do you currently or have previously owned an animal that was named after a Bills player or other personnel? - have you, on multiple occasions, drafted a Bill in a fantasy league only to have said player underperform and corrupt the morale of your otherwise legitimate squad? - have you ever dated a woman that owns a Bills jersey and can drink most men under the table... and her name ends in a vowel? - do you own more than 4 versions of John Madden NFL football (regardless of gaming system)? - do you regularly re-watch Bills losses on NFL Rewind just so you can come back to this board and play GM and fire at least one player per week? - when is the last time you laughed while watching a Bills game - not one of those "OMG that guy is horrrrrriiiiibbbbblllleee" laughs but a "gosh, I'm so happy" laughs? - LeBatts Blue or Molson if you had to pick one to drink... on a deserted island... for the next 2 years... with your only friend a banged-up volleyball you affectionately named "Ralph Wilson"?? Once you've completed the above exam please take a moment to reflect upon your place in life, the role that sports and specifically Buffalo Bills football plays in it and ask yourself this one question... "Am I fulfilled?" It is only then that the clouds the follow you may lift, the skies open, the chirping of birds be heard by your naked ears - perhaps for the first time and you realize.... "you know, I don't have it so bad... these guys play hard on Sunday... sure their play at times leaves me frustrated... are they overpaid, sure...but you know what - how damn lucky am I to have a professional football franchise represent my city, my home, my family & friends? I get to share this with so many people of similar ties & values - many I'll never meet in person. Damn it, I LOVE THE BILLS for what they do for me... and you know what?!?!? I LOVE BUFFALO, NEW YORK. I LOVE THE BILLS. Screw the Patriots, Dolphins & Jets - screw them and their scumball fans. Screw em all!!!! They're all slime on the bottom of your shoe!!! We are going to beat the Saints on Sunday. We may or may not make the playoffs again soon. But there is no denying the character of the guys on this team or their coach. I BELIEVE IN THE BILLS. I BELIEVE IN THE BILLS. I BELIEVE IN THE BILLS. Now, get up, stick your chest out, grab the nearest woman of legal age, dip her like Rhett Butler did Scarlet in Gone with the Wind, and kiss that lass open mouth!! Then head but your boss. Twice. You're going to be ok now. Carry on. You are a warrior. (please forward this message to any one else you care about that you feel may also suffer from this treacherous condition) -Carwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 So still better overall record than the Bills? An argument like this is difficult to numbers that aren't skewed for different reasons. The Giants could have forced 3 takeaways a game this season, and Eli could've thrown 4 picks and still have a losing record. Better overall record!? 8 teams at 32-22 means each team is approx 4-3. The Bills are 3-4 with an overtime loss, a last minute field goal loss and a loss with an UDRFAQB blowing turds as far as they eye could see. Your spin is LUDICROUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Better overall record!? 8 teams at 32-22 means each team is approx 4-3. The Bills are 3-4 with an overtime loss, a last minute field goal loss and a loss with an UDRFAQB blowing turds as far as they eye could see. Your spin is LUDICROUS. 3-4 is worse than the average. The Bills are below average compared to other teams producing a similar amount of turnovers. Give me all the excuses you want, it won't change the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 3-4 is worse than the average. The Bills are below average compared to other teams producing a similar amount of turnovers. Give me all the excuses you want, it won't change the facts. What's your goal? What's the plan? What purpose to your facts serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Because I've heard, "this team is different, they are playing with fire this year" for too long. If you haven't been able to see the difference in the way this team is playing compared to the Bills teams of recent history then you haven't been paying very close attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 If you haven't been able to see the difference in the way this team is playing compared to the Bills teams of recent history then you haven't been paying very close attention. Apparently you didn't hear. He has facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) 3-4 is worse than the average. The Bills are below average compared to other teams producing a similar amount of turnovers. Give me all the excuses you want, it won't change the facts. Say you're right on every point you've ever made about how terrible this team has been and is. At what point do you look at yourself and say "I'm the fool for being a fan"? You comment on a team you have deep disdain for multiple times daily. How do you bring yourself to spend time on that without having serious criticism for yourself as nothing more than a martyr? Edited October 23, 2013 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 What's your goal? What's the plan? What purpose to your facts serve? What's your goal? What's the plan? What purpose to your facts serve? Resentment and anger can drive some "fans". Makes them blind and one sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Say you're right on every point you've ever made about how terrible this team has been and is. At what point do you look at yourself and say "I'm the fool for being a fan"? You comment on a team you have deep disdain for multiple times daily. How do you bring yourself to spend time on that without having serious criticism for yourself as nothing more than a martyr? He's a troll who admits he's a troll that enjoys pissing people off. He gets off on it. There's a word for that, but I'm precluded from using it here. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Aaron Williams said it best about the defensive philosophy attack the man, grab the ball --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Buffalo while Defensively have been doing a good job taking the football away, the Bills have given the ball up 10 times which cancels out two thirds of what The Defense accomplished. Bills are + 5 in the all important give away, take away (which is still top 10% of the League) In comparison the 7-0 Chiefs with Alex Smith behind center are a +11 Edited October 23, 2013 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 If you haven't been able to see the difference in the way this team is playing compared to the Bills teams of recent history then you haven't been paying very close attention. Heard that before too, wish I knew how to find some 2011 posts. Say you're right on every point you've ever made about how terrible this team has been and is. At what point do you look at yourself and say "I'm the fool for being a fan"? You comment on a team you have deep disdain for multiple times daily. How do you bring yourself to spend time on that without having serious criticism for yourself as nothing more than a martyr? I don't come here to bash the Bills or show any disdain. I have opinions and decent arguments to back them up. Not once has K-9 or TBC said agree to disagree or any amicable response, it's always in the vein of "you're such an idiot you aren't a fan get out of here." I post positive things all the time, but of course no one disagrees with the optimism. Topics like this are the ones where the arguments spawn. He's a troll who admits he's a troll that enjoys pissing people off. He gets off on it. There's a word for that, but I'm precluded from using it here. GO BILLS!!! Never admitted to being a troll. Admitted to posting my opinions and arguments which seem to rile everyone up because they aren't stuff like "EJ is DA MANuel, 12-4 this year guise!" or the ever classic, "Hackett's play calling sucks." Literally, if someone on this board has a different take and it isn't universally agreed with, you get attacked over and over. How long were you taking shots at me in the Shoutbox last night? 3 hours? Way to restrain yourself from using that word, that's some maturity I like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Never admitted to being a troll. Admitted to posting my opinions and arguments which seem to rile everyone up because they aren't stuff like "EJ is DA MANuel, 12-4 this year guise!" or the ever classic, "Hackett's play calling sucks." Literally, if someone on this board has a different take and it isn't universally agreed with, you get attacked over and over. How long were you taking shots at me in the Shoutbox last night? 3 hours? Way to restrain yourself from using that word, that's some maturity I like to see. Except that your's and your buddy Mendoza's posting style, whether intentionally or not, aims to get a rise out of the board. Compare your topics to the "Bills heading in the rig.." thread. Big style points difference in people admitting that this team hasn't arrived yet. So while the turnovers may not continue to pile up (even though they're not at an unsustainable pace), until Robey scored last week, the defense hasn't scored, unlike 2011. Counting turnovers lucky because a Bills' player happened to be at the right place at the right time? Hell, you can make that argument about 99% of the turnovers league wide. But do you answer the question of whether the Bill player was in that spot solely due to luck, or by defensive design or a good play on his part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The unsustainable argument doesn't hold, that's true. But it doesn't hold because what they're doing, in terms of turnovers, isn't that impressive. The Bills D ranks 15th in the league in turnovers per drive at .146. That's middle of the pack and certainly sustainable. Compare that to the league leader Chicago whose turnover per drive is .250 (1/4 of all drives against their D end in turnovers.) I'd say Chicago's number is unsustainable. Great stat -- I never thought to think of it that way! Getting back to the OP somewhat, it does seem to me that there are some legitimate concerns here. I'm very encouraged by the turnover per drive stat that MDH posted, but I still feel, just based on watching the games, that our takeaways will probably drop in the 2nd half of the season. That's not to take anything away from the D, who have generally done an admirable job. It's just that most of the takeaways we've gotten have required both a bad play by the offense (usually the QB) and a good play by the defense. I don't know if we can necessarily count on QBs to continue to make these kinds of mistakes. Mario did a nice job forcing a quick throw on Robey's pick 6, and Robey obviously made a great play, but what if Tannehill had been less accurate and put the ball too high or too low? Incomplete pass, 3 and out, which is still a win for the D, but might not have resulted in any points for the Bills. So I do think that we should be concerned about "unsustainability" in our record. But there are also mitigating factors in the other direction that should give us some hope. For one, the secondary has been hit pretty hard by injuries, and with the returns of Byrd & Gilmore, will probably be better going forward. For another, our schedule gets easier the 2nd half of the year -- we may not need as many takeaways to be in games, because our opponents won't be as good. As for the offense, that could go either way -- Lewis has been about as good as Manuel was, but if Manuel comes back rusty, our QB production will be way too low. The hope is that our rookie QB will get better as the year goes along, but I wonder how much this injury will set him back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Heard that before too, wish I knew how to find some 2011 posts. I don't come here to bash the Bills or show any disdain. I have opinions and decent arguments to back them up. Not once has K-9 or TBC said agree to disagree or any amicable response, it's always in the vein of "you're such an idiot you aren't a fan get out of here." I post positive things all the time, but of course no one disagrees with the optimism. Topics like this are the ones where the arguments spawn. Never admitted to being a troll. Admitted to posting my opinions and arguments which seem to rile everyone up because they aren't stuff like "EJ is DA MANuel, 12-4 this year guise!" or the ever classic, "Hackett's play calling sucks." Literally, if someone on this board has a different take and it isn't universally agreed with, you get attacked over and over. How long were you taking shots at me in the Shoutbox last night? 3 hours? Way to restrain yourself from using that word, that's some maturity I like to see. You need to re-read some of your posts and be totally honest with yourself. Once doing that, perhaps you won't have the temerity to offer up the blatant bullschit you just served up. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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